Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 08-12-04, 05:01 PM	I've tried to get this thread to fly a couple of times before, but I'm going to try it on this board since we're all familiar with tweeking the rules. My idea is quite simple; some traits you are born with, others you learn. A human raised amongst elves should be different than a human raised amongst humans. The DMG originally gave me this idea by statting out the Half-Human elf. So, here goes. When you choose your race, you are selecting your racial abilities. Then, you select your character's culture. I'd like to give players some type of small bonus for taking matching race and culture, but I have yet to come up with a sutable bonus. Here are the racial traits from the races presented in the PHB. (For everyone's reference, I use 4 physical ability scores. For those who don't like my decision on this, simply replace any instance of "Agility" with "Dexterity" when it comes to racial ability scores. Berserker is my name for the Barbarian class (which can select, at first level, what their "rage" does). I have a modified proficiency system using proficiency groups and starting proficiency feats. If you are not familiar with my system, ignore the proficiency groups and assume that the Elf's weapon familiarity grants weapon focus longsword, rapier, shortbow, and longbow to classes who have martial weapons. Lastly, any skill that a character gains a racial or cultural bonus to is automatically treated as a class skill for that character (this ability also applies to the Skill Focus feat and the +2/+2 skill feats; thus a Fighter can take Alertness if they are going to be a guard, ect.).) HUMAN RACIAL TRAITS Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Human base land speed is 30 feet. 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level, since humans are versatile and quick to learn. Adaptive Learning: Humans gain a +2 racial bonus on any two skills. DWARVEN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Constitution, -2 Agility, -2 Charisma. Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even while wearing medium and heavy armor or while carrying a medium or heavy load. Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. Stonecunning: Stonecunning grants dwarves a +2 bonus on search and spot checks to notice unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a check as if he were actively searching. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against giants. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. +4 stability bonus against bull rush and trip attacks. Elemental Focus: Dwarven berserkers must select defensive stance as their battle trance, and dwarven sorcerers must select earth as their elemental focus. Dwarven clerics cannot select the Air domain. ELVEN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Agility, -2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Elven base speed is 30 feet. Low-light Vision x2. +4 racial bonus on Listen, and Spot checks. +2 racial bonus on Search checks. An elf that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for the door. Immunity to magic sleep spells and effects. Elves meditate for 4 hours a day in place of sleep. During this meditation, Spot checks are impossible and Listen checks are made at a -5 penalty. Any action that breaks this meditation requires the elf to restart their meditation. +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment spells or effects. Elemental Focus: Elven berserkers must select whirling frenzy as their battle trance, and elven sorcerers must select air as their elemental focus. Elven clerics cannot select the Earth domain. HALF-ELVEN RACIAL TRAITS +2 Agility, -2 Constitution Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Half-Elven base speed is 30 feet. Low-light Vision x2. +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. Immunity to sleep spells and effects. Half-elves meditate for 4 hours a day in place of sleep. During this meditation, Spot checks are impossible and Listen checks are made at a -5 penalty. Any action that breaks this meditation requires the elf to restart their meditation. +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment spells or effects. Human and Elven Blood. Elemental Focus: Half-elven berserkers must select whirling frenzy as their battle trance, and half-elven sorcerers must select air as their elemental focus. Half-elven clerics cannot select the Earth domain. HALFLING RACIAL TRAITS +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength Small: As Small creatures, halflings have a +1 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, and 3/4 carrying capacity. Halfling base speed is 20 feet. +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, Listen, and Move Silently checks. +1 racial bonus on all saving throws. +2 morale bonus on all saving throws against fear. HALF-ORCISH RACIAL TRAITS +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Half-Orcish base speed is 30 feet. Darkvision 60 feet. +1 racial bonus to Survival and Intimidate checks. +2 to Handle Animal and Ride checks. May take Scent as a feat. Human and Orc Blood. Elemental Focus: Half-orcish berserkers must select burning rage as their battle trance, and half-orcish sorcerers must select fire as their elemental focus. Half-orcish clerics cannot select the Water domain. Then, here are the cultures. Again, I would like to give a small bonus to characters with matching races and cultures, this will give the half-races a little bonus for being a little weaker than the other races; they will have two cultures that they can select and still gain what ever the bonus will be. HUMAN CULTURAL TRAITS Bonus Feat: Those of human culture gain one additional feat at first level. They must still meet any and all prerequisites for this feat. Automatic Languages: Regional and Trade. Bonus Languages: Any. Favored Class: Any. DWARVEN CULTURAL TRAITS +2 cultural bonus on Appraise and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal items. Weapon Familiarity: Those of dwarven culture may treat the waraxe as part of the Martial Weapon (Axes) category, and may treat the Urgrosh as part of the Martial Weapon (Polearms) category. Automatic Languages: Dwarven and Trade. Bonus Languages: Giant, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Regional. Favored Class: Fighter ELVEN CULTURAL TRAITS +2 cultural bonus on Concentration and Knowledge checks. Weapon Familiarity: Those of elven culture gain the Martial Weapon (Bows) and Martial Weapon (Light Blades) feats as bonus proficiencies. Automatic Languages: Elven and Trade. Bonus Languages: Auran, Goblin, Orc, Regional, and Sylvan. Favored Class: Wizard HALFLING CULTURAL TRAITS Halflings gain a +1 attack roll bonus with any thrown weapons. Weapon Familiarity: Those of halfling culture gain the Simple Weapon Proficiency (thrown weapons) feat for free. Halflings with a class that grants automatic proficiency in Simple Weapons gain Weapon Focus (thrown weapons) instead of Simple Weapon Proficiency (thrown weapons). Automatic Languages: Halfling and Trade. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, Orc, and Regional. Favored Class: Rogue ORCISH CULTURAL TRAITS +2 racial bonus to resist subdual damage, such as from excertion, starvation, or suffocation, and on saves against natural diseases. Weapon Familiarity: Those of orcish culture may treat the double axe as part of the Martial Weapon (Axes) category Automatic Languages: Orcish and Trade. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Ignan, and Regional. Favored Class: Berserker Lastly, this offers a new level of realistic customization of the races. Rather than creating millions of subraces for each race, different cultures can be created. Currently, I am working on a Druidic culture for my setting, to differentiate those who grew up in cities from those who grew up in small, racially diverse, druidic tribes. Thank you for your time.
Xeviat-DM 08-14-04, 06:58 PM	No posts?
King_Bulba 08-16-04, 03:01 AM	I think this makes sense personally. But some culturals are far superior than others when granting special stuff and that would have to be evened out if you allowed your culture to be picked.
Xeviat-DM 08-16-04, 03:55 AM	That's partially why I want to offer some type of bonus for choosing an identical race and culture, but I'm not sure how to do that. Do you have any opinions on balancing out the cultures and racial stats?
Green 08-16-04, 12:48 PM	Glancing over what you have so far, here are some ideas I have for choosing cultures which match one's race. Humans with a human upbringing could choose a cross-class skill and make it a class skill. I think this is like the Cosmopolitan feat, but I'm not sure because I don't own any books that use it. Or, you could take the adaptive learning ability and make that the benefit of being a human brought up in a human culture. Dwarves with a dwarven upbringing could get stonecunning as their bonus instead of having stonecunning as a racial trait. Elves who have an elven upbringing could have that ability to search for secret doors or the +2 bonus to saves vs. enchantments (or both) as their bonus. You don't have gnomes listed, so I can't comment on them. Half-orcs with an orcish upbringing could get Skill focus (Survival) or Skill focus (Intimidate) or both for free. Or perhaps increase the bonus to Survival and Intimidate rolls to +2. Half-elves and half-orcs could get either benefit, depending upon their culture. Aside from that, I think some of the following changes would flow a lot more intuitively: Human cultural traits seem a bit skimpy. Since you hinge a lot on the adaptability of humans and seem to prefer to use skills to reflect that, I think that giving humans another class skill (one of the player's choice) can do a lot to reflect that. If you want restrictions to balance it, you could limit the potential class skill to something like: such Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (any except dungeoneering), Profession, and Survival. This can run the gamut of human cultures from those settled in remote, untamed wilderness to thriving metropoli. Given that you give Dwarves +4 Constitution, I think that an additional +2 racial bonus to saves vs. poison is a tad redundant because a +4 Constitution boosts your Fortitude save by 2 anyway. Also, the bonus to saves against spells and spell-like effects would only make sense if dwarves are particularly anti-magic (which should hamper spellcasting in some way) or if they are especially tough or willful (which is better replicated with the Iron Will feat given for free, since Great Fortitude is already more or less covered with the Constitution bonus). My ideas about stonecunning are already given above. The cultural traits are flawless. I think that giving elves both immunity to sleep spells and effects as well as a save bonus vs. enchantment spells and effects seems a bit redundant. On the one hand, elves don't sleep so much as trance, so the immunity to sleep spells and effects is sound, especially since there is nothing that gives elves an innate affinity for or aversion toward enchantment (which could have a better mechanic to express it). I'd be inclined to move the enchantment save bonus to the cultural traits. On the other hand, you could also argue that magical sleep is not natural sleep, so while elves would be more resilient, they shouldn't be immune. I already gave you my ideas about the automatic Search check above. The cultural traits seem decent, although I'd favor getting rid of automatic longsword proficiency because it isn't based on the elf's advantages (greater agility). Perhaps you could replace longsword and rapier proficiencies with weapon familiarity with the elven thinblade or something similar. My ideas about half-elven racial traits mirror some of the ones I had for elves. I forget whether or not half-elves trance or whether they need to sleep, so the immunity to sleep spells and effects may or may not fit. The racial traits of half-orcs are perfect, except I'd move the bonus to Survival to the Orcish cultural traits. I'd be tempted to make the Intimidate bonus a trait for orcs raised amongst humans since I doubt that half-orcs would be particularly threatening toward orcs. If you are trying to make Halflings more like Hobbits, they're perfect. BTW, what happened to gnomes?
Xeviat-DM 08-18-04, 04:38 AM	I didn't add any new abilities, except for humans and half-orcs, I merely split them. All of those elf abilities you mentioned are in the PHB. My half-orc skill bonuses are half of the skill bonuses that orcs get, just like half-elves get half of the elf's skill bonuses. Halflings are nomads, I haven't changed their stats at all. Gnomes aren't on here because they don't exist in my world (Gnome is a name for the earth spirits, dao is also; I wanted to cut down on the confusion; plus my goblins are the magical, crafty race, so gnomes were being pushed out of their niche).
Crashy75 08-19-04, 09:40 PM	I really like this!!!! i've had similar ideas myself (inspired by modern starting occupations) I've been putting it off for a while. The idea was to get away from a "Dwarf" background to a more setting specific home region- but that's just me :)
Vahenir 08-20-04, 07:50 AM	I love the idea.. it's one that I've tried to use a few times already.. here's the problem though: It's not balanced at all. To do this. .you're going to have to totally re-invent the races.. you can't just remove some of their abilities and stick them in as cultural abilities. If I took Elven race with Dwarven culture.. I'd be vastly superior to an Elf with an Elven culture, even if he gets a bonus for being of the same race/culture. I'd be willing to go deep into this and work on totally remaking the races and working on creating cultures... but it will be a lot of work unless you can come up with a way to simplify things without throwing balance out the window (which I'm not totally opposed to anyway, since I'm the one that allows 1st level characters and 4th level characters in the same party).
orpheus 08-20-04, 12:45 PM	Has anyone tried changing the racial paragon classes into cultural paragon classes? I've been thinking about doing this for Eberron, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience (good or bad) with it.
Vahenir 08-20-04, 03:23 PM	Paragon classes enhance racial abilities (like Elvensight), so I'd think changing them would ruin the flavour and possibly just not work. I'd say stick with racial paragons.... and limit them to characters of the right culture (Only Valenar Elves can be Paragons of High Elvendom, for example, not a Valenar-born Elf raised in the Mournlands.) Keep in mind, racial paragons represent the pinnacle of that race... has very little to do with culture, per say, more to do with what is considered good about that -race-. I suppose you could also make cultural paragons.. but I wouldn't remove racial paragons to do it... someone could be both the paragon of their race.. and their paragon of their particular culture. For example.. a human paragon could also be the paragon of the ideals of the "" Principalities (I forgot the damn name of the island chain.....)
Xeviat-DM 08-21-04, 03:10 PM	Vahenir, I am more than willing to do much work, even practically rewriting the races if I have to, for my setting. I would like to publish my setting online some day (maybe I'll have it done in time for 4th edition ...), but I do know that I alone cannot do all of this work. If you care to discuss my world's races with me in email or PM, contact me. I do also like the Racial Paragon classes, and maybe I could say that you need to have both the race and the culture of your paragon class in order to enter it. That would be some sort of bonus.
Vahenir 08-22-04, 06:34 PM	As long as you are, as you said, willing to do the work then I don't foresee a problem installing cultural paragons alongside racial paragons - since they'd run on the same idea I'm sure the mechanics of it will be fairly easy. I'm not online as much as I used to be, as you may or may not have noticed, but I'd be willing to lend my experience whenever possible in this little endevour (even through e-mail if you'd rather keep the details of your setting incognito, and I know that feeling well, plagurism, even unintentional plagurism on the part of some random reader could really ruin any hopes of publishing a setting.. that's why I don't really talk about mine). As far as re-writing the races.. sounds like you might have to. So far as you keep the racial paragons as they are, you won't have to change any true racial abilities (i.e. those abilities dependant upon species/subspecies instead of cultural upbringing). You will, however, have to remove all abilities associated with upbringing, which may be complicated to change. If you do this, I would suggest removing "favoured classes" altogether.. personally I think it was a bad idea from the start.. and it doesn't fit the flavour of what you're trying to do anyway. Then rebalancing everything.. whoo boy.... but again, I'm willing to help out as much as time permits me. I would keep racial and cultural paragons totally separate here. You don't need to be uber in love with Valenar to have better Elven vision and be faster than humans.. etc. Know what I'm saying? Someone could be an extremely advanced member of their race without ever even seeing the traditional homeland. Likewise, someone not even of the proper race for a homeland could shine with the ideals and common abilities of that culture.
Greyman 08-23-04, 02:35 AM	Originally posted by orpheus Has anyone tried changing the racial paragon classes into cultural paragon classes? I've been thinking about doing this for Eberron, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience (good or bad) with it. I'm not sure if it is quite the same thing, but Races of Stone has a Stoneblessed prestige class.   This enables outsiders to assimilate into the cultures of one of the races of stone (dwarf, gnome, and goliath).   It can be acquired earlier than normal for a prestige class (at level 3 minimum) and provides abilities related to each race's racial features (choose one at first class level). At the end of the short progression the Stoneblessed character is considered to be a member of the choosen race. Well, for the purpose of game effects such as ranger's favoured enemy, the use of racial specific magic items, qualifying for prestige classes, and the like.   A gnome stoneblessed ogre may be accepted as one of the clan, and be considered just as much a gnome as anyone, but she still sticks out like a sore thumb.
Xeviat-DM 08-23-04, 02:57 AM	Sounds interesting Grayman. Vahenir, I wouldn't mind doing an email corespondence to work out the details of what you think I'd need to change. Looking over my ability splits, they don't seem to be too out of balance, I'd like to know what you think is so bad. For the races of my setting, I don't really need to go into detail about them, other than that Elves are tied to Air, Dwarves to Earth, Orcs to Fire, and Goblins to Water; these races used to be human but were magically altered (the world doesn't know that though). Halflings are to monkeys as Humans are to apes, and that basically all you probably need to know to figure out ability changes. As for the racial paragons, I was saying that you may need to be both of elven race and of elven culture to become an elven paragon; why would an elf who grew up in human lands know enough about elves to become an elven paragon? The "chosen" PrCs, eye of grumsh, dwaren defender, arcane archer, only require their race's culture, since it's all about training and not about ability.
Vahenir 08-23-04, 04:53 PM	If you'd like to e-mail me, it's ArionObscure@hotmail, if not we can always just continue right here. Now obviously I haven't playtested what you've written or really sat down and worked through it all, but at a glance, I think that the human from a human culture looks really weak. Have you considered different human cultures in the world having different abilities tied to them (trade skills, fighting ability, etc)? Also, other things may depend on your world but things like Stonecutting don't really seem to be something racial as something cultural (even for a race tied to the element of Earth). 'Course it's your setting so I can't really be an accurate judge of that. I think you'll just have to be really careful that a certain combination isn't insanely powerful compared to another, though I don't foresee that being possible with what you've presented (maybe slightly more powerful, not sure, but not insanely so). As far as paragons, it'll probably come down to your personal interpretation.. and I think we may have different views of a racial paragon. To me.. a racial paragon is the embodiment of what is good about a race.. their natural abilities... it has nothing to do with culture. Essentially.. sort of a Darwinian/Evolution type thing. Some Elves are born that have the capacity as they get older to develop their racial accuities beyond those of others of their race. An Elf being born with, or developing, keener vision than other Elves, to me, is not about where they were raised.. it's just good genes. But that's just my view of it...
Xeviat-DM 08-23-04, 06:48 PM	Vahenir, the human culture seems to be one of the most powerful. That bonus feat offers versatility, as does the "Any" favored class. Do you feel that the Human is balanced in the standard game? Stone cunning is described as an innate ability in the PHB; making it a cultural ability could make sense, but it would definately overload the dwarven culture. Currently, I feel that the elven culture is the only one in need of a serious boost.
Nordman 09-12-04, 03:59 PM	Sounds good! Really good! Work on!
Mjollnir88 09-13-04, 06:12 AM	Sounds like a good idea, I have made this modification in my own homebrew game. Keep in mind that each race can have numerous cultures within it. Human might have Viking-like; Renassiance Italy-like; Feudal Japan-like; and so on. This is also an excellent way to get rid of the "million sub-races of elves" problem by making High, Grey, & Wild elves all the same race but having different cultures (keep Drow as a distinct subrace however; and if you really must use them, Aquatic Elves as well) Keep up the good work!
Xeviat-DM 09-14-04, 07:43 PM	Mjollnir88, that's exactly what I've been thinking. Eventually, I'd like to design a cultural trait for each of my world's countries, as well as the "ethnicities" of my demihumans.
roll8dn 09-15-04, 12:17 AM	I know that I've not helped out as much as I could have, but I figured I ought to try again, since I said I would on your last try at this... Problems: 1.)lack of cultural traits for the elves 2.)possibly overpowered combinations of races and cultures Possible fixes: 1a.)Adding some magic-using skills to the elven culture. Since magic is such a part of their world, their teaching the young to feel and see the use of magic around them would be a good idea. So, make Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), and Use Magic Device part of the elven culture. 1b.)Adding in more bonuses to the martial traditions of the people. Since elves esteem the use of the sword and the bow, perhaps giving them a free weapon focus feat in one of their favored weapons would be a good idea. 1c.)Education is a part of the elven life. Mind you, they have 110+ years in school and apprentice-level jobs. This offers a good opportunity for them to learn about the world around them. Add all of the Knowledge skills to the elven culture. 1d.)Beauty and grace is part of most people's view of elven culture. Adding the ability to create that beauty would probably be a good idea. The elven culture grants Craft, Perform, and Diplomacy as part of the elven upbringing to the skill list. 2a.)Offer an incentive to take the same culture and race. This could be a free culture line (like a minor bloodline from UA), or access to the race's Paragon class as a base class rather than as a prestige one (by the way, I recommend Jaerom Darkwind's paragon classes; they can be found on this board). Alternatively, you could add extra bonuses into the mix when a race chooses its own culture; things like bonuses on Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff, and Disguise when dealing with their own species. 2b.)Forbid certain class/race combinations. Mind you, this will not be very popular with your players, but you can do it if you want. Should you want any more help, feel free to either post here or PM me (unfortunately, I am not online as much these days, so if it takes me a couple of days to get back to you I apologize in advance).
Xeviat-DM 09-15-04, 10:09 PM	I already know that paragons will require both the Race and Culture of the given race, but I'd rather not make that the only special gain. I'm looking for suggestions for what characters could gain from having the same race and culture.
Vahenir 09-27-04, 12:45 AM	Whoa... I forgot all about this thread.. sorry Xeviant. I'm not so sure that the Human is on-par with other races in the Core Rules. They get a bonus feat.. great. Hey.. Elves get free proficiency in a few weapons - some of the most popular weapons in the game (bows and swords). So basically.. these cancel each other out. Favoured Class: Any -IS- a fairly powerful little thing, isn't it. But its effect is complex. And what does it mean to a character who doesn't multiclass? Doesn't seem to powerful in a game where no one multiclasses anyway. Other than that.. I can't say too much... I don't use FC because I think it is utterly idiotic and one of the stupidest rules ever invented. And humans get four extra skill points. That's a nice bonus. But since Favoured Class is questionable and the bonus feat/proficiency thing cancels out.. that really only leaves those extra skill points as a boon for humans. Compare that to Low-Light Vision, Immunity to Sleep spells, and a bonus to Spot, Search and Listen checks.. as well as the hidden door thing.... Now let's say the human uses those skill points and puts two in Spot and two in Search..... the Elf still has Low-Light Vision, Listen, Immunity and the Hidden door thing over the human. That just doesn't seem "equal" to me. As for bonuses for someone who chooses the same culture and race, here are some ideas: A few extra skill points only usable for purchasing skills somehow related to their race/culture. For example, a Dwarf from the Mountains could only put these skill points into Craft or Appraise. An Elf of the Woodland Realm could only put his skill points into Spot or Survival. A Human of the Great Kingdom could only put his free skill points into Diplomacy or Intimidate. Etc. And/Or you could hand out a free Feat or two that is racially/culturally specific or noteworthy. Maybe a few common feats in your Dwarven realm are Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes and Improved Critical. A Dwarf who chooses the appropriate culture may choose one of these feats as a free bonus feat, (which does not count against anything, he still gets all his normal class/character features, including bonus feats).
Sir Knight 09-27-04, 09:20 AM	I skipped most of the replies as I got real excited by what you're proposing as it is VERY similar to what I am currently working on. I will read through your post and the replies, make changes to my system, and post it here when I finish. Maybe we can help each other. BASICALLY, the way mine works is you pick a Race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and that gives you a list of core abilities common to all members of that race. Then you pick your Subrace (Humans -> Roman, Celt, Briton, etc; Elf -> High, Wood, Dark; Dwarf -> Hill, Mountain, Grey; etc). The subrace choice gives you unique abilities common to members of that subrace. For instance if you choose Elf you gain +2 dex, -2 con and the secret door bonuses or something. Then if you choose High Elf (magic dominate) you gain +2 int, -2 str and bonuses to Spellcraft. If you chose Wood Elf (normal elves) you gain bonuses to Survival and a feat. I basically will try to model mine off of the existing races WotC made, but a lot of it will have to be changed, added, or deleted to try and balance out the races. I've been working on it for a while and will continue to. Something along those lines. I'm still in the process of creating it but I think it will be an awesome system for us both. :)
Xeviat-DM 09-27-04, 04:12 PM	Sir Knight, that is pretty much what I'm trying to do, except I'd rather do the subraces as cultural differences. But you do bring up an interesting point, and that is ethnicities. For the longest time, I've felt that ethnic differences within races are best represented by the players choice for ability score spreading. But some amount of ability score adjustments or possibly requirements/restrictions might not be entirely out of the question. My largest concern right now is balancing all of the racial traits against each other and then balancing all of the cultural traits against one another. Some have brought to my attention that separating them like this has made Humans feel a little weak, while making it look like some of the other races (Dwarves) are over balanced. I'd like more opinions on this. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
Vahenir 09-27-04, 04:13 PM	Knight... I would HIGHLY suggest dropping the culture-based ability bonus/penalty. It's not really a good idea to too harshly abjudicate a particular race/culture's abilities. It's a bit much. A race should have a base ability score change (like -2 Str +2 Dex). That's all it needs, really. Because in the end.. you can't force a character to have certain stats.. everything is variable, even stuff you have increases/penalties for. Just a suggestion.
Sir Knight 09-28-04, 09:23 AM	Vahenir - That isn't a bad idea. I am still in the early stages and I will consider leaving them out, I'll have to flesh it out and then decide. My reasoning for doing it is to show that there is a pretty big difference between the Subraces, even though they share some core abilities common to all members of their race. This is only one example: High Elves have a bonus to INT because they are smarter than normal and have a high knack for being a Wizard. Wood Elves on the other hand will probably have a bonus to Wisdom because of their connection to Nature instead of the Arcane and make good Druids. SOMETHING like that, I'm not sure yet. I do see your point though, but I'm also trying to customize the idea to fit my Campaign Setting but I also want to stay "similar" to the layout of core mechanics. Anywho, any ideas are welcome and in a week or so when I finish my draft, I'll post it for critique. Thanks!
Vahenir 09-28-04, 11:00 PM	May I sugget a "cultural skill" feature? For example - maybe Spellcraft is always a class skill for High Elves and they gain an insight bonus when using it. On the flip - Wood Elves always treat Survival (Or Wilderness Lore, or whatever) as a class skill, and gain an insight bonus when using it. Something like that would -reflect- their innate abilities without too harshly impacting the game. You could even come up with a special "cultural skill" for every culture of every race. Even invent new skills. For example, Core Hobgoblins are very warlike, so maybe Knowledge (Strategy & Tactics) is always a class skill for them and they gain an insight bonus when using it... etc. Catch my drift, Breeze?
Sir Knight 09-29-04, 07:08 AM	That is basically what I am going for. Their "core" race (Human, Dwarf, Elf, etc) gives them the bulk of their abilities. Their subrace choice (Elf, High; Elf, Wood, etc.) gives them something nifty for their race (whether stats, skill bonus or a feat or something). You've given me a lot to think on, thanks! :)
Vahenir 09-29-04, 08:14 AM	No problem. Happy if I helped stir your creativity juices. Makes me all warm and tingly inside whenever someone changes the core rules to suit their tastes. not sure why. Anyway.. Here's something else to think about: Don't overload. I know you're going to be tempted to (whether you realize it or not) but just be careful not to start giving away craploads of stuff before players even get to choose a CLASS.. haha. Get it? Keep it low. A single feat or two skills will suffice as a cultural bonus. But there is some other things I wanted to mention: 1) Don't be afraid to give your players a little list of "typical" things. For example, you can justify saying most High Elves in your setting are Wizards by giving wizardly feats, skills and PrCs as common things among High Elves. You know, a few paragraphs of fluff can really make players just .. "get it." And make sure to back yourself up with the NPCs you create (but don't pigeonhole all High Elves into the role of Wizard). 2) You can have more than one stat block to represent a race. Keep that in mind. In my games, I have two kinds of Elves. The first is an LA +1 race, more powerful. The second is a regular Elf race. The first one is for Grey and Dark Elves. The second I use for Wood and High Elves. You can do something like that, too. Let me give you an example: Let's say you have five Elf subraces in your game. Grey (warriors), High (wizards), Dark (sorcerers), Wood (druids/rangers), Wild (barbarians). You could create two Elf adjustments. The first one is +2 Dex -2 Con and the second is +2 Int -2 Str or something.... The first adjustment could be for Grey Elves, Wood Elves and Wild Elves. While the second adjustment could represent Dark Elves and High Elves. Just something for you to think about. It adds diversity without adding a totally different racial adjustment for all the different cultures of Elves.
Xeviat-DM 10-01-04, 02:51 AM	Vahenir, Sir Knight, thank you both for the assistance. And thank all the others who assisted earlier as well. I still would like help designing an agreable bonus to grant players using the same race/culture combination. I would also like assistance in tonning down the Dwarven culture, since it seems much to powerful (I am very tempted to simply remove weapon familiarity, as it is something I don't really believe in). Also, a few notes about things I did for all races in my games. Any race which has a racial skill bonus treats this skill as a class skill at all times. Look at monstrous races, their monstrous class skills are the skills listed in their monster entry. The skills in their monster entry always contain skills they get bonuses in. Additionall, on a related note, Skill Focus also makes the skill chosen a class skill for all classes when it is chosen, which allows skill-weak classes more opportunity to differentiate. My current ideas for encouraging same race/culture combinations are: Bonus Feat Skill Bonus (mainly social skills, representing the easier time growing up. Characters growing up in the culture with which they belong will have an easier time and face proportionately less prejuduce, and thus be more amiable people) Free Equipment: Similar to 3.0 FR rules, I am less likely to stand behind this idea because it doesn't benefit characters past 1st or starting level, and thus can be easily ignored. Ability to Select Regional/Cultural/Racial feats at first level: Similar to OA and FR, though I dislike the idea of stronger, limited choice, feats. Any other ideas or opinions on the ones posted?
Hitokiri Battousai 10-01-04, 11:11 AM	I've been working on something like this, but I more or less just designed sub-races for each of the races, and then attempted to balance them all out. Haven't play-tested yet, but it seems to me that it'll work. Here's an example of two of them... Therengian +1 Con, -1 Int Base Speed 30 feet +1 bonus to Ride, Handle Animal, and Survival, and these are automatically class skills Mounted Combat or Endurance as bonus feat Available Classes: Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger Favored Class: Fighter or Paladin Obviously, these guys are basically the riders of Rohan. Yafutoman +1 Dex, -1 Con Base Speed 40 feet +1 bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble, and these are automatically class skills. Improved Initiative or Lightning Reflexes as bonus feat Available Classes: Fighter, Monk, Ninja, Samurai, Shugenja Favored Class: Samurai or Shugenja Basically a Japanese culture... And since the "Available Class" thing is kind of limiting, I also added one sub race which basically has no limitations... all classes available, select any bonus feat, any three skills as class skills(of course they miss out on the +1 to each, but thats not too bad), and any favored class.
Vahenir 10-01-04, 11:02 PM	Xeviat - My suggestion would definitely be to drop weapon familiarity. The only problem is a logic one - that's a cultural trait, so it kind of makes sense for weapon familiarity to exist in -culture- instead of in race. But if you have to cut out something - that should probably be it. As well, you may want to consider maybe lowering the Dodge bonus against Giants by 2. But that's just an off-hand thought. As far as encouraging like race-culture combinations.. I'm in the bandwagon of Bonus Feat or Skills. The problem is, you want something universally useful. So if you're not skill-intensive in your games.. consider just using the Bonus Feat. Because people like.. Fighters.. won't really care about getting social skills - but they'll care about another Feat. And everyone else can use feats too, so it works universally. However, in a more skill-intense game.. the Skills might be a better option. So it really depends. Hitokiri - Right off there's a problem - D&D doesn't use +1 Ability boots, it uses +2 (and other increments of 2). There are no races with a +1 ability boost, because it doesn't necessarily raise your modifier. A +2 always will. So it's potentially unbalancing right there. But if you raise all the ones to twos.. you'll do fine. I didn't really have a chance to look over the rest of the abilities though. However, I did happen to notice the entries looked rather short...
Hitokiri Battousai 10-02-04, 08:49 PM	Hmm... well, they were only supposed to be sub-races of human, which is why I only went with +1's instead of +2's... is there any particular reason why not to use a +1, other than because they always use +2's normally? Well, I guess it does make it easy to set up your ability scores so that the +1 ups a stat, while the -1 doesn't actually affect anything...
Vahenir 10-03-04, 01:00 AM	It's my understanding that that -is- pretty much the reason. Because you have to remember that part of the reason stats exist is to balance characters against each other. A +1 to an ability isn't accurate for this because it will provide a higher modifier to some and not to others, while a +2 always increases a modifier. It's a balance thing, so far as I know. I don't know how it will affect a game, because I've never tried using a +1 ability adjustment for a race. If you use it.. good luck with it. But just on the premise above, I wouldn't suggest it.
Xeviat-DM 11-28-04, 03:36 PM	As far as encouraging like race-culture combinations.. I'm in the bandwagon of Bonus Feat or Skills. The problem is, you want something universally useful. So if you're not skill-intensive in your games.. consider just using the Bonus Feat. Because people like.. Fighters.. won't really care about getting social skills - but they'll care about another Feat. And everyone else can use feats too, so it works universally. However, in a more skill-intense game.. the Skills might be a better option. So it really depends. I've been thinking about this over the last months. I believe I will grant a bonus feat, but the feat will be limited to lists made for each culture. I will post my newest Racial and Cultural traits soon, they will be posted in a new post and edited on the opening post. Please, if you are all still interested, help me balance these once I have them posted.
Vahenir 11-28-04, 09:30 PM	Since I'm "subscribed" to this thread, just pop over here and let me know when you post your new thread, so I'll know it's up. I think the bonus feat will work good and having special lists for the different cultures is definitely a worthwhile limitation.
Crashy75 12-27-04, 09:21 PM	I've recently done a little work on this subject.... let me show u what i have. Name (the races that qualify) Special Abilities: The special abilities that the background grants. Favored Class: The favored class of a character from this background (I do favored class by background, not species) Automatic Language(s): The automatic language(s) gained with this background. Bonus Languages: Selectable bonus languages (due to intelligence) The Underkingdoms (Dwarf, Kobold) [if i had drow in my setting, i'd probably put them here too.] Special Abilities: - Stonecunning: (as the dwarf ability) - +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal - Underground Survival: +2 to survival checks when underground. Favored Class Fighter Automatic Language(s): Not sure yet, but i don't like languages such as Dwarf or Elf... I think language should be regional, not racial. There is no 'Human' and i think it would be stupid if there was... Common is annoying enough. Bonus Languages: As above. The Sylvan Forest (Elves) Special Abilities: - Weapon Proficiency: Residents of the Sylvan forest train constantly with swords and bows. They consider Longswords, and long and short bows as simple weapons. They consider the (elven) longbow as a martial weapon. - Familiar Terrain:Residents of the Sylvan forest gain a +4 bonus to climb when climbing a tree. In addition, they gain a +1 bonus to hide, move silently, spot and listen when in the wilderness. (forests and jungles) - Forest Survival: Residents of the Sylvan forest gain a +2 bonus to survival rolls when in the wilderness. Favored Class Ranger Automatic Language(s): Sylvan Bonus Languages: See the Dwarf. The Plains (Humans, Halflings, Elves, Orcs, Kobolds) - Weapon Proficiency: Plainsmen gain an exotic weapon proficiency of choice. - Nomadic Existance: Plainsmen gain a +2 to handle animal, ride and intimidate checks. - Hearty: Plainsmen gain a +1 to fortitude saves. Favored Class: Barbarian Automatic Language: See the Dwarf Bonus Languages: as the dwarf NEW FEAT Unusual Background Bonus: you may select a background that is not normal for your race. For example, an elf could have an Underkingdoms background. Special: You may only select this feat at 1st level.
Xeviat-DM 12-28-04, 07:48 PM	Crashy, very interesting. Though I don't think I'll be using yours specifically, you did give a good example of how to structure the cultural traits. Now the only issue is balancing each race's racial traits against each other. As for your feat, I don't think that's neccessary. A character who was raised in an other culture would have that culutre, unless you want to imply that characters raised in a different culture have a harder time developing (a lost feat in game terms). Either way, characters will loose power by being from a separate culture; if you're doing this to curb abuse, that sounds fine, but if you're doing this to ensure that the majority play the races as their race, that might be seen as railroading. I'm going to take a few moments to figure this out, maybe I can structure up something. PS: You think Stonecunning is a cultural ability? I was under the impression that it was an inborn racial trait.
Crashy75 12-28-04, 09:35 PM	I will post my newest Racial and Cultural traits soon, they will be posted in a new post and edited on the opening post. Please, if you are all still interested, help me balance these once I have them posted. Did u ever start this thread? I've been looking but can't find it. Crashy, very interesting. Though I don't think I'll be using yours specifically, you did give a good example of how to structure the cultural traits. hey thanx!! I think most specific examples should be campaign specific anyway. As for your feat, I don't think that's neccessary...That's a good point. I think i'll get rid of it. I'm going to take a few moments to figure this out, maybe I can structure up something. Looking forward to it. If you start a new thread, let us know!!!!! PS: You think Stonecunning is a cultural ability? I was under the impression that it was an inborn racial trait. I guess one could go either way with this. The way i see it, they are familiar with stonework because they grew up underground. Plus i needed more 'underground' abilities :D
Xeviat-DM 12-29-04, 10:04 AM	I guess one could go either way with this. The way i see it, they are familiar with stonework because they grew up underground. Plus i needed more 'underground' abilities :D Well, as you know, my dwarves were made by the earth Dragon, so there you go. Here are my updated racial and cultural traits. The Racial traits are being posted together, as well as the cultural traits; this way they can be more easily compared. Currently, I have an issue with the Elven traits, since my other 3 "elemental" races have an ability fitting of their element (dwarves have stone cunning, goblins have swim and holding breath bonuses, orcs don't take damage from exposure to cold or hot weather). I guess their sleep is sort of an airie quality, but I'd like something more definitive. And for everyone's reference, I use 4 physical ability scores. For those who don't like my decision on this, simply replace any instance of "Agility" with "Dexterity" when it comes to racial ability scores. Berserker is my name for the Barbarian class (which can select, at first level, what their "rage" does). Savant is my own class, to which a link is in my signature. I have a modified proficiency system using proficiency groups and starting proficiency feats. If you are not familiar with my system, ignore the proficiency groups and assume that the Elf's weapon familiarity grants weapon focus longsword, rapier, shortbow, and longbow to classes who have martial weapons. Lastly, any skill that a character gains a racial or cultural bonus to is automatically treated as a class skill for that character (this ability also applies to the Skill Focus feat and the +2/+2 skill feats; thus a Fighter can take Alertness if they are going to be a guard, ect.). Here are the traits: HUMAN RACIAL TRAITS Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Human base land speed is 30 feet. 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level, since humans are versatile and quick to learn. Adaptive Learning: Humans gain a +2 racial bonus on any two skills. DWARVEN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Constitution, -2 Agility, -2 Charisma. Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even while wearing medium and heavy armor or while carrying a medium or heavy load. Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. Stonecunning: Stonecunning grants dwarves a +2 bonus on search and spot checks to notice unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a check as if he were actively searching. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against giants. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. +4 stability bonus against bull rush and trip attacks. Elemental Focus: Dwarven berserkers must select defensive stance as their battle trance, and dwarven sorcerers must select earth as their elemental focus. Dwarven clerics cannot select the Air domain. HALF-DWARF RACIAL TRAITS +2 Constitution, -2 Agility Medium: As Medium creatures, half-dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Half-Dwarf base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision: Half-dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive checks. Stonecunning: Stonecunning grants half-dwarves a +2 bonus on search and spot checks to notice unusual stonework. A half-dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a check as if he were actively searching. A half-dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. Human and Dwarf Blood. Elemental Focus: Half-dwarven berserkers must select defensive stance as their battle trance, and half-dwarven sorcerers must select earth as their elemental focus. Half-dwarven clerics cannot select the Air domain. ELVEN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Agility, -2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Elven base speed is 30 feet. Low-light Vision x2. +4 racial bonus on Listen, and Spot checks. +2 racial bonus on Search checks. An elf that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for the door. Immunity to magic sleep spells and effects. Elves meditate for 4 hours a day in place of sleep. During this meditation, Spot checks are impossible and Listen checks are made at a -5 penalty. Any action that breaks this meditation requires the elf to restart their meditation. +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment spells or effects. Elemental Focus: Elven berserkers must select whirling frenzy as their battle trance, and elven sorcerers must select air as their elemental focus. Elven clerics cannot select the Earth domain. HALF-ELVEN RACIAL TRAITS +2 Agility, -2 Constitution Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Half-Elven base speed is 30 feet. Low-light Vision x2. +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. Immunity to sleep spells and effects. Half-elves meditate for 4 hours a day in place of sleep. During this meditation, Spot checks are impossible and Listen checks are made at a -5 penalty. Any action that breaks this meditation requires the elf to restart their meditation. +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment spells or effects. Human and Elven Blood. Elemental Focus: Half-elven berserkers must select whirling frenzy as their battle trance, and half-elven sorcerers must select air as their elemental focus. Half-elven clerics cannot select the Earth domain. GOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Dexterity, -2 Strength, -2 Charisma Medium: As Medium creatures, goblins have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size Goblin base speed is 30 feet Low-light Vision x2 +4 racial bonus to swim checks. Can hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times their constitution score. +2 racial saving throw bonus against poison. Chameleon Skin (Ex and Su): As a move equivalent action, a goblin can change the color of their skin and equipment. The shift in skin color is a physical ability, while the ability to change their equipment’s color is a magical affect. This affect grants a +10 racial bonus on Hide checks till the start of their next turn. In order to keep this ability active, a move equivalent action must be spent on it each round. Elemental Focus: Goblinoid berserkers must select flowing dance as their battle trance, and goblinoid sorcerers must select water as their elemental focus. Goblinoid clerics cannot select the Fire domain. HOBGOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength Medium: As Medium creatures, hobgoblins have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Hobgoblin base speed is 30 feet. Low-light Vision x2. +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Sense Motive, and Swim checks.. +2 racial saving throw bonus against poison. Lesser Chameleon Skin (Ex and Su): While not as strong as a full goblin’s chameleon skin ability, hobgoblins’ skin and clothing color instinctually shifts and blends with their surroundings. As with goblins, the change in skin color is a physical property while the change in clothing and items is magical. This grants hobgoblins a constant +4 racial bonus to Hide checks. Human and Goblin Blood. Elemental Focus: Hobgoblin berserkers must select [/I]flowing dance[/I] as their battle trance, and hobgoblin sorcerers must select water as their elemental focus. Hobgoblin clerics cannot select the Fire domain. HALFLING RACIAL TRAITS +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength Small: As Small creatures, halflings have a +1 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, and 3/4 carrying capacity. Halfling base speed is 20 feet. +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, Listen, and Move Silently checks. +1 racial bonus on all saving throws. +2 morale bonus on all saving throws against fear. ORCISH RACIAL TRAITS +4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence Medium: As Medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Orcish base speed is 30 feet. Darkvision 60 feet. +2 racial bonus to Survival and Intimidate checks. Scent Light Sensitivity: -1 penalty to attack rolls in bright light or within the radius of a daylight spell. Protection from Exposure (Ex): Orcs do not have to make Fortitude saves to resist subdual damage when in extreme temperatures between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit. They can exist comfortably within this temperature range. Elemental Focus: Orcish berserkers must select burning rage as their battle trance, and orcish sorcerers must select fire as their elemental focus. Orcish clerics cannot select the Water domain. HALF-ORCISH RACIAL TRAITS +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Half-Orcish base speed is 30 feet. Darkvision 60 feet. +1 racial bonus to Survival and Intimidate checks. +2 to Handle Animal and Ride checks. May take Scent as a feat. Human and Orc Blood. Elemental Focus: Half-orcish berserkers must select burning rage as their battle trance, and half-orcish sorcerers must select fire as their elemental focus. Half-orcish clerics cannot select the Water domain. HUMAN CULTURAL TRAITS Bonus Feat: Those of human culture gain one additional feat at first level. They must still meet any and all prerequisites for this feat. Automatic Languages: Regional and Trade. Bonus Languages: Any. Favored Class: Any. DWARVEN CULTURAL TRAITS +2 cultural bonus on Appraise and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal items. Weapon Familiarity: Those of dwarven culture may treat the waraxe as part of the Martial Weapon (Axes) category, and may treat the Urgrosh as part of the Martial Weapon (Polearms) category. Automatic Languages: Dwarven and Trade. Bonus Languages: Giant, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Regional. Favored Class: Fighter ELVEN CULTURAL TRAITS +2 cultural bonus on Concentration and Knowledge checks. Weapon Familiarity: Those of elven culture gain the Martial Weapon (Bows) and Martial Weapon (Light Blades) feats as bonus proficiencies. Automatic Languages: Elven and Trade. Bonus Languages: Auran, Goblin, Orc, Regional, and Sylvan. Favored Class: Wizard GOBLIN CULTURAL TRAITS +2 racial bonus to Craft (alchemy) checks, and any other Craft check related to mechanical devices (such as mechanical weaponry or trapmaking) Weapon Familiarity: Those of goblin culture gain the Simple Weapon Proficiency (crossbows) and the Martial Weapon Proficiency (curved blades) feats as bonus proficiencies, regardless of class. Goblins with a class that grants automatic proficiency in Simple Weapons gain Weapon Focus (crossbows) instead of Simple Weapon Proficiency (crossbows). Automatic Languages: Goblin and Trade. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Dwarven, Elven, Orc, and Regional. Favored Class: Savant HALFLING CULTURAL TRAITS Halflings gain a +1 attack roll bonus with any thrown weapons. Weapon Familiarity: Those of halfling culture gain the Simple Weapon Proficiency (thrown weapons) feat for free. Halflings with a class that grants automatic proficiency in Simple Weapons gain Weapon Focus (thrown weapons) instead of Simple Weapon Proficiency (thrown weapons). Automatic Languages: Halfling and Trade. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, Orc, and Regional. Favored Class: Rogue ORCISH CULTURAL TRAITS +2 racial bonus to resist subdual damage, such as from excertion, starvation, or suffocation, and on saves against natural diseases. Weapon Familiarity: Those of orcish culture may treat the double axe as part of the Martial Weapon (Axes) category Automatic Languages: Orcish and Trade. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Ignan, and Regional. Favored Class: Berserker
Crashy75 12-30-04, 07:55 PM	btw if i don't comment on something, that means i like it/agree. Also, i don't mean to insult. I'm commenting so much because i really like your ideas in general. :D And for everyone's reference, I use 4 physical ability scores... I still think you should go with the standard 6 attributes, but hey, it's your game. :D Lastly, any skill that a character gains a racial or cultural bonus to is automatically treated as a class skill for that character (this ability also applies to the Skill Focus feat and the +2/+2 skill feats; thus a Fighter can take Alertness if they are going to be a guard, ect.). That's an interesting idea. My only concern is that this would be unbalancing. Particularly for the magic aptitude feat which would make use magic device a class skill. Still, quite interesting. HUMAN RACIAL TRAITS ... Adaptive Learning: Humans gain a +2 racial bonus on any two skills. I'm for keeping the human with a bonus feat. Mostly because i don't like the idea of a 'human culture'- imo that's too broad, but i'll get to that later. DWARVEN RACIAL TRAITS +4 Constitution, -2 Agility, -2 Charisma. Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even while wearing medium and heavy armor or while carrying a medium or heavy load. Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. Stonecunning: Stonecunning grants dwarves a +2 bonus on search and spot checks to notice unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a check as if he were actively searching. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against giants. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. +4 stability bonus against bull rush and trip attacks. Elemental Focus: Dwarven berserkers must select defensive stance as their battle trance, and dwarven sorcerers must select earth as their elemental focus. Dwarven clerics cannot select the Air domain. A few things. First of all, don't u think this is overpowered compared to the other races? I do. Also, i thought their bonus vs. giants was due to their experience fighting/dodging them. To my sensabilities one cannot have an inborn talent to defend against giants and only giants.(unless they're small but that's already covered in the rules.) Getting rid of this might help to balance them out. btw, i really approve of the +4 to constitution. HALF-DWARF RACIAL TRAITS ... +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive checks.[/QUOTE] My only issue with this is that I think dwarves should be slightly more intimidating than half dwarves. I don't see sense motive in the picture at all, but i assume this has to do with the 'I'm a halfbreed so i'm always on the lookout type thing.' But, I can imagine that a half dwarf would be able to pass himself off as a human quite easly and therefore avoid the half breed stigma. GOBLIN RACIAL TRAITS[list] +4 Dexterity, -2 Strength, -2 Charisma... What u seem to be going for is a sort of a 'tinker goblin' yes? I see their attributes modifiers as... +2 dex/int, -2 Wis/Str. ORCISH RACIAL TRAITS[list] +4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence... I see a +2 to str/con but hey... HUMAN CULTURAL TRAITS[list] Bonus Feat: Those of human culture gain one additional feat at first level. They must still meet any and all prerequisites for this feat. Automatic Languages: Regional and Trade. Bonus Languages: Any. Favored Class: Any. Man i can't stress how much i detest this idea of a 'human culture vs. a dwarven culture' . It just feels so bland. For example, when i create a character from in the Forgotten realms, i don't think of my character as comming from a 'human culture' I think of him being an escaped slave from They. Or perhaps a rising knight of silverymoon. Or an elitest snob from Baldur's Gate.... It just helps to set the mood. I know it takes alot more work, but i think it makes your world more interesting. More believeable. I'm talking flavor....Also, I guess i'm thinking more about background and less about culture. For example: Theyan Slave - Gruling Labor: Theyan Slaves gain the endurance and toughness feats for free. - Slave's Care: Theyan slaves recieve a +2 to Sense motive and diplomacy rolls because they constantly have to appease their masters to avoid beatings. Automatic Languages: Theyan. Bonus languages: any non-restricted language. Favored Class: Rogue Theyan Nobel - Courtious magocracy: Theyan nobles recieve a +2 bonus to Spellcraft and diplomacy checks. - Dominating personality: Theyan nobles gain a +2 to intimidation checks and recieve a +2 to the DC to any charm or compulsion spells they cast. Automatic Languages: Theyan Bonus Languages: any non-restricted lang. Favored Class: Wizard. Anyway...
Xeviat-DM 12-31-04, 01:44 AM	The reason I'm using a "bland" human culture is because I currently am unsure exactly how I should do a human culture. I also don't want humans to not have their common "favored enemy: all". What I may do is offer some cultural feats that can only be bought with the human culture's bonus feat. As for dwarves looking a little overpowered, here's how I estimated it (note that I did remove a few things, such as the attack bonus vs. orcs and the save bonus vs. poison): * +4 Constitution, -2 Agility, -2 Charisma. * Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. * Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even while wearing medium and heavy armor or while carrying a medium or heavy load. (I counted this ability as a -1 penalty, the lack of speed hurts most classes except for those who use heavy armor, and those who use heavy armor must still purchase it witht their proficiency feats). * Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. (This was priced as a +1 ability) * Stonecunning: Stonecunning grants dwarves a +2 bonus on search and spot checks to notice unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a check as if he were actively searching. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. (This was priced as a +1/2 ability) * +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against giants. (This was priced as a +1 ability) * +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. (This was priced as a +1 ability) * +4 stability bonus against bull rush and trip attacks. (And I priced this as a +1/2 ability due to it's limitations and general world knowledge; not many will try to bull rush or trip a dwarf, just like one wouldn't try to bull rush or trip a rhino; and my girlfriend is now laughing at the prospect of "Halfling vs. Rhino") * Elemental Focus: Dwarven berserkers must select defensive stance as their battle trance, and dwarven sorcerers must select earth as their elemental focus. Dwarven clerics cannot select the Air domain. As for the half-dwarf's +2 intimidate and sense motive; you may have noticed that each of the half-human races gained +2 to two social skills (okay, handle animal and ride are vaguely social, but we're talking about half-orcs here). Due to the mix of dwarven stubbornness and human ... stubbornness, you get a quite stuborn person by mixing the two. Plus they needed something to differentiate them from the pure dwarves, otherwise the half races would just be watered down versions of the pure races, and that's not interesting. Goblins are +4 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha because they are the water race. Water is tied to dex, fire is the oposite of water, and strength is tied to fire. As for the -2 to Charisma, I decided that each of the four demihuman races would recieve a penalty to a mental stat in order to give humans some sort of edge over them (humans now make better spellcasters). Same goes for Orcs' ability score adjustments.
Xeviat-DM 12-31-04, 09:02 PM	Realizing that my last post may have come off as a little rude, I wanted to ask about my dwarf. If you feel the dwarf racial traits are overpowered, do you have any advice on what to do to fix it? Or did my explanation work?
Crashy75 01-02-05, 12:39 PM	If you were rude, i didn't notice. Anyway regarding dwarves and half-dwarves i do see your reasoning. I'd love to see some of those 'human culture only bonus feats'. :D