Racial HD and x4 Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial HD and x4 Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sledged
11-03-05, 01:01 PM One thing that that's really bad about having a character with more than one racial HD is that unless you're a fey, dragon, or outsider type, you can't really make an effective skill-based character (i.e. rogue, ranger, or expert). So I found a house rule that might work, but haven't considered all the implications yet:

Any character (not just those of the 1-HD races) has the option to replace its first (and only its first) racial HD with a class level, and recieve all the first level benefits that come with it (max hp and x4 skill points).

Can anyone think of any pitfalls or hazards for implementing this house rule?
Ilium
11-03-05, 02:33 PM I have a question: Say I want to make a bugbear fighter. Given a bugbear's LA and normal hit dice I have to be at least 4th level, so let's assume that's the level character I'm creating.

Now if I use your system, I replace my first Humanoid level with a fighter level.

My bugbear now has 1d10+2d8 (plus con mods). Fine.
He also has three feats (bonus fighter feat) and all the other good stuff that comes from being a fighter (higher BAB, proficiencies, etc.)

But his ECL is still 4, just like a regular bugbear.

Now this isn't a huge problem, I just wanted to point it out.
Sledged
11-03-05, 03:22 PM I thought about that, and for now, I'll let it stand. At worst, it's only worth increasing the LA by one, and if I find it to be a problem, I'll do just that.
Ilium
11-03-05, 03:36 PM Cool. What I would really like to do with this is what you have suggested: go against type. Instead of a bugbear fighter, a bugbear wizard starts to look appealing. Take your first level is wizard to crank up your Knowledge, Concentration and Spellcraft and you'll only be a couple ranks behind a straight wizard on those skills. Plus you can bring some smack just from being a bugbear. :)
RaspK FOG
11-03-05, 06:36 PM Do you actually know that your first HD as a player character, NO matter what that Hit Die might be, has all of the 1st character level benefits too?

So, let's say you begin play as a 1 HD outsider, for whatever reason might that be (say, you are playing a "celestial wannabe," so your DM allows you to play a "celestial wannabe" monster class as per Savage Species and what not); you get 8 + Con mod hp, +3/4 (+0) BAB, quadruple the skill points, etc.
Sledged
11-03-05, 07:25 PM Do you actually know that your first HD as a player character, NO matter what that Hit Die might be, has all of the 1st character level benefits too?Yes, but your ranks in knowledge, spellcraft, and concentration are a lot different if your first HD is from a level in wizard than if it's a bugbear's HD. Max ranks for your standard bugbear would be 3. With the first HD switched out for a level in wizard, it's 6. Even if you don't use any skill points to buy cross-class skills, you could still have 4 ranks in them.
Xeviat-DM
11-03-05, 08:26 PM I have a comprimise to offer. I'm implimenting a level 0 system in my games. Level 0 is a level that a character only gains if they take their first character level in that class. Level 0 includes the character's maximum HP, x4 skill points, +2 to all high saves, and weapon and armor proficiency. I'm doing my best to carefully weigh these against each other, so the level 0's for each class are equally beneficial.

Because there are many races in my setting that have racial hit dice, I think it might actually be a good idea to not make "level 0's" for racial hit dice. That means that monsters would loose some skill points, but that shouldn't matter too much.

Try that out, not giving max hp or x4 skill points for character's racial hit dice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sledged 11-03-05, 01:01 PM	One thing that that's really bad about having a character with more than one racial HD is that unless you're a fey, dragon, or outsider type, you can't really make an effective skill-based character (i.e. rogue, ranger, or expert). So I found a house rule that might work, but haven't considered all the implications yet: Any character (not just those of the 1-HD races) has the option to replace its first (and only its first) racial HD with a class level, and recieve all the first level benefits that come with it (max hp and x4 skill points). Can anyone think of any pitfalls or hazards for implementing this house rule?
Ilium 11-03-05, 02:33 PM	I have a question: Say I want to make a bugbear fighter. Given a bugbear's LA and normal hit dice I have to be at least 4th level, so let's assume that's the level character I'm creating. Now if I use your system, I replace my first Humanoid level with a fighter level. My bugbear now has 1d10+2d8 (plus con mods). Fine. He also has three feats (bonus fighter feat) and all the other good stuff that comes from being a fighter (higher BAB, proficiencies, etc.) But his ECL is still 4, just like a regular bugbear. Now this isn't a huge problem, I just wanted to point it out.
Sledged 11-03-05, 03:22 PM	I thought about that, and for now, I'll let it stand. At worst, it's only worth increasing the LA by one, and if I find it to be a problem, I'll do just that.
Ilium 11-03-05, 03:36 PM	Cool. What I would really like to do with this is what you have suggested: go against type. Instead of a bugbear fighter, a bugbear wizard starts to look appealing. Take your first level is wizard to crank up your Knowledge, Concentration and Spellcraft and you'll only be a couple ranks behind a straight wizard on those skills. Plus you can bring some smack just from being a bugbear. :)
RaspK FOG 11-03-05, 06:36 PM	Do you actually know that your first HD as a player character, NO matter what that Hit Die might be, has all of the 1st character level benefits too? So, let's say you begin play as a 1 HD outsider, for whatever reason might that be (say, you are playing a "celestial wannabe," so your DM allows you to play a "celestial wannabe" monster class as per Savage Species and what not); you get 8 + Con mod hp, +3/4 (+0) BAB, quadruple the skill points, etc.
Sledged 11-03-05, 07:25 PM	Do you actually know that your first HD as a player character, NO matter what that Hit Die might be, has all of the 1st character level benefits too?Yes, but your ranks in knowledge, spellcraft, and concentration are a lot different if your first HD is from a level in wizard than if it's a bugbear's HD. Max ranks for your standard bugbear would be 3. With the first HD switched out for a level in wizard, it's 6. Even if you don't use any skill points to buy cross-class skills, you could still have 4 ranks in them.
Xeviat-DM 11-03-05, 08:26 PM	I have a comprimise to offer. I'm implimenting a level 0 system in my games. Level 0 is a level that a character only gains if they take their first character level in that class. Level 0 includes the character's maximum HP, x4 skill points, +2 to all high saves, and weapon and armor proficiency. I'm doing my best to carefully weigh these against each other, so the level 0's for each class are equally beneficial. Because there are many races in my setting that have racial hit dice, I think it might actually be a good idea to not make "level 0's" for racial hit dice. That means that monsters would loose some skill points, but that shouldn't matter too much. Try that out, not giving max hp or x4 skill points for character's racial hit dice.