Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tim4488 01-22-07, 05:14 PM	This is a pretty minor change, but I still feel like tossing it up here. If nothing else, maybe people will like it. It's always bugged me that a Ranger with Favored Enemy (Undead) doesn't, technically, know anything ABOUT undead. Same thing for dragons, constructs, humanoids, outsiders, etc. So, simple fix. Whatever knowledge skill covers a ranger's favored enemy becomes a class skill for that ranger. This only applies to a ranger's 1st level enemy, not to any favored enemies gained at higher levels. For example, a Ranger with Favored Enemy (Dragon) at first level would have Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill. Also considering letting the Favored Enemy bonus (+2, +4, whatever) apply to knowledge checks related to the enemy (so the ranger above would get +2 on knowledge (arcana) checks related to dragons, but not for any other topic). Not sure about that though.
xandros2000 01-22-07, 06:27 PM	I like it! It makes sense and isnt overpowering/unbalancing. Knowledge skills will be very important in my world, so I am going to use your idea. Sorry I dont have anything else to add. Just wanted you to know I think it is good.
Tequila_Sunrise 01-22-07, 07:00 PM	Even if you were to give rangers all knowledge skills pertaining to monsters it wouldn't be overpowering.
Tim4488 01-22-07, 08:42 PM	Even if you were to give rangers all knowledge skills pertaining to monsters it wouldn't be overpowering. True, but this is more flavorful. Plus I don't see Rangers as knowledge skill monkeys, just that they should be knowledgeable in their focused area. What do you think about the favored enemy bonus applying to the knowledge check, Tequila? Thanks, Xandros! Glad to know someone else will use it.
FeceMan 01-22-07, 08:51 PM	Why not just give them all the Knowledge skills as class skills but they can only be used for Knowledge checks for learning about monsters? Furthermore, each time a ranger selects a favored enemy, he gets a +2 bonus on the associated Knowledge checks for the type of monster he has chosen. These bonuses increase identically to the ragner's favored enemies bonues. The only stipulation is that the ranger can only use the bonus to Knowledge (whatever) when it applies to the category of creature. That way, he can't suddenly become better than the wizard when it comes to Knowledge (arcana).
Tim4488 01-22-07, 08:57 PM	I dunno. In my opinion, a 1st level Ranger who's a woodsman with Favored Enemy (Animals) shouldn't have access to Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill, even if he can only use it to identify dragons. I just figured giving them the knowledge skill related to their enemy would make sense and maybe help a bit, but I don't generally think there's a huge balance issue. I figure Rangers can identify anything related to Nature, Dungeoneering, and their favored enemies... spreading it beyond that, I'd rather not. However, in your game, do whatever you please. *shrug* Haven't had any rangers join since I added this idea anyway, haha.
xandros2000 01-22-07, 09:18 PM	Additionally you could add the favored enemies language as a bonus language for the ranger. They would still need to spend the skill points to know the language.
Tim4488 01-22-07, 09:27 PM	Oooh, that's nice. I like that. Poor ooze-hunters. "But oozes don't speak!" "No bonus language for you!" Undead wouldn't grant anything either, judging by the sheer variety. But a cool idea, very in line with what I was posting.
LiefKarakse 01-22-07, 09:30 PM	nice idea i am defintely using this in my campaign
FoxmanFX 01-23-07, 11:28 AM	Yoinked* for coolness! :thumbsup: Added to my houserules sheet: [] When taking a Favored Enemy, a Ranger adds to their class skill list the appropriate Knowledge for that type of creature if they do not already have it. They gain the appropriate Favored Enemy bonus for all knowledge checks related to that Favored Enemy. All racial languages of chosen favored enemies appear on the Rangers Bonus Languages list and are available for purchase. (suggestions for better wording welcome!) ________________________________________ ____ * "Yoink" the international sound for taking something... :D
Tequila_Sunrise 01-23-07, 06:30 PM	Well adding the favored enemy bonus to knowledge checks would give a ranger the potential to know stuff like his favored enemy's heartrate (both in battle and out)...but hey if a player invests that many skill points into a 'fluff' skill, they should be able to use it to great effect.
Krusk 01-24-07, 01:38 AM	Ive got a ranger i am playing currently who definatly plays up his knowledge of lizardfolk all the time. Too bad he has no idea as to anything about their habits. He sort of just makes something half believeable up and runs with it. I really enjoy it, but if i were playing a more serious character your right, i wold probably take ranks in knowledge my favored enemy. Idea just now. WHat if instead of adding knowledge whatever your favored enemy is to class list. Rangers got some sort of bardic knowledge ability that only works for the enemies. 1d20+level+int to know fact about your enemy? With feats for a +4 to the ability?
FoxmanFX 01-24-07, 11:29 AM	Like a wild empathy check - except call it Trained Hunter or something like that - sounds like a great mechanic! I really like that too! hmmm well rangers get 6 skill points per level - even buying one rank would give them a good bonus... but a ranger could be consider less optimized if they didn’t max their ranks in their favored enemy... Trained Hunter (Ex): A ranger knows facts about their Favored Enemy. This ability functions just like an appropriate Knowledge check to identify creatures and their special powers or vulnerabilities. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds their ranger level, their Intelligence modifier and their Favored Enemy bonus to determine the Trained Hunter check result. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the creature’s HD. A successful check allows the ranger to remember a bit of useful information about that creature. For every 5 points by which the check result exceeds the DC, the ranger can recall another piece of useful information. In most cases, making a check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t. - I'd keep the bonus languages part though... Darn – I think I like that even better! - Great Ideas everybody!
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-24-07, 11:46 AM	I havr nothing particularly useful to say, but I will voice my opinion in favor of the general trend of this thread.
ZiggZagg 01-24-07, 11:58 AM	Definately a string of good ideas. I was going to suggest something similar to Bardic knowledge...but you beat me to it LoL. I have a player that has a Ranger right now. I might allow him to just add this ability right into his character. Nice thoughts!
Krusk 01-24-07, 01:59 PM	Like a wild empathy check - except call it Trained Hunter or something like that - sounds like a great mechanic! I really like that too! hmmm well rangers get 6 skill points per level - even buying one rank would give them a good bonus... but a ranger could be consider less optimized if they didn’t max their ranks in their favored enemy... I actually wrote up my own version last night, here is. Know thy Enemy-At first level a ranger gains special knowledge of his enemies. He can make a special knowledge roll whenever information is needed about any of his favored enemies. The roll is 1d20+level+His bonus vs. that favored enemy. Depending on his result the DM will inform him of the degree of success in attempting to recall the specific fact. EX. DC-10 Identify an exotic form of enemy. Saint Bernard, over dog. DC-20 Identify locals where enemy would probably be spending time, in an area unfamiliar to the ranger. They would probably be hiding in that cave over there down the road, they like dark places. DC-30 Identify obscure fact, known only to one of the species. Race X actually descends from orcs. DC-40 Identify obscure fact known only to a select few of the species. Race X is actually not descended from ors, but elves. The elders mislead them to make them easier to subdue.
ragoftag 01-24-07, 07:16 PM	:w00t: I like it! I use more Knowledge skills, so I just make Knowledge: Favored Enemy a part of the Ranger's schtick. Trained and Class, of course. I should have put in something for the various levels of FE. How about this: Trained Hunter (Ex): A ranger knows facts about their Favored Enemy. This ability functions just like an appropriate Knowledge check to identify creatures and their special powers or vulnerabilities. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds their ranger level, their Intelligence modifier and their Favored Enemy bonus to determine the Trained Hunter check result. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the creature’s HD. A successful check allows the ranger to remember a bit of useful information about that creature. For every 5 points by which the check result exceeds the DC, the ranger can recall another piece of useful information. In most cases, making a check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t. ' add: (This is now a "Class" skill and the Ranger may spend up to a number of skill ranks equal to the Ranger's Favoered Enemy bonus on it.) It allows some extra study but not too much.
Patrick Draken-Korin 03-21-07, 07:09 PM	Interesting Idea! An enemy lore ability for the ranger makes a great deal of sense, and lore abilities are useful but hardly gamebreaking additions (even not restricted like this one). I'll use this. Thanks.
Wierdness_Incarnate 03-23-07, 11:02 PM	how about a skill called Knoledge (favored enemy) as a class skillany favored enemy the ranger can use the skill on to get info
Lesuit 03-31-07, 11:24 PM	Here is a variant ranger we have been using for a couple of years. Much of it is taken from Unearthed Arcana. JAGER Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The jager’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier. Table: The Jager Level:Base Attack Bonus:Fort Save:Ref Save:Will Save:Special 1st:+1:+2:+2:+0:1st favored enemy, Track, wild empathy 2nd:+2:+3:+3:+0:Combat style 3rd:+3:+3:+3:+1:Endurance 4th:+4:+4:+4:+1:Animal companion, Sneak attack +1d6 5th:+5:+4:+4:+1:2nd favored enemy 6th:+6/+1:+5:+5:+2:Improved combat style 7th:+7/+2:+5:+5:+2:Woodland stride, Sneak attack +2d6 8th:+8/+3:+6:+6:+2:Swift tracker 9th:+9/+4:+6:+6:+3:Evasion 10th:+10/+5:+7:+7:+3:3rd favored enemy, Sneak attack +3d6 11th:+11/+6/+1:+7:+7:+3:Combat style mastery 12th:+12/+7/+2:+8:+8:+4: 13th:+13/+8/+3:+8:+8:+4:Camouflage, Sneak attack +4d6 14th:+14/+9/+4:+9:+9:+4: 15th:+15/+10/+5:+9:+9:+5:4th favored enemy 16th:+16/+11/+6/+1:+10:+10:+5:Sneak attack +5d6 17th:+17/+12/+7/+2:+10:+10:+5:Hide in plain sight 18th:+18/+13/+8/+3:+11:+11:+6: 19th:+19/+14/+9/+4:+11:+11:+6:Sneak attack +6d6 20th:+20/+15/+10/+5:+12:+12:+6:5th favored enemy Class Features All of the following are class features of the jager. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A jager is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields). Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a jager may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Jager Favored Enemies. The jager gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the jager may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2. If the jager chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the jager’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Table: Jager Favored Enemies Type (Subtype):Type (Subtype) Aberration: Humanoid (reptilian) Animal: Magical beast Construct: Monstrous humanoid Dragon: Ooze Elemental: Outsider (air) Fey: Outsider (chaotic) Giant: Outsider (earth) Humanoid (aquatic): Outsider (evil) Humanoid (dwarf): Outsider (fire) Humanoid (elf): Outsider (good) Humanoid (goblinoid): Outsider (lawful) Humanoid (gnoll): Outsider (native) Humanoid (gnome): Outsider (water) Humanoid (halfling): Plant Humanoid (human) :Undead Humanoid (orc): Vermin Favored Environment (Ex): (optional) (From Unearthed Arcana) Instead of selecting a type of creature against which to apply a bonus on certain skills and damage rolls, the jager selects a specific natural environment and gains bonuses when in that environment. At 1st level, a jager may select a natural environment from among those given on Table: Jager Favored Environments. Due to the jager’s experience in that environment, he gains a +2 bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills in that environment. He also gains the same bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks made in association with that environment (or on Knowledge [dungeoneering] checks made in association with underground environments, if the jager has selected underground as a favored environment). At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (at 10th, 15th, and 20th level), the jager may select an additional favored environment from those given on the table and gains an identical bonus on the appropriate skills checks in that environment. In addition, at each such interval, the bonuses in any one favored environment (including the one just selected, if so desired) increase by 2. If the jager chooses desert or forest, he must also choose a climate type, as indicated on the table (either “cold” or “temperate or warm” for desert, or “cold or temperate” or “warm” for forest). A jager can’t select an environment that he has never visited. Table: Jager Favored Environments Environment:Examples Aquatic:sea, ocean (on or under water) Desert, cold:tundra Desert, temperate or warm:bad lands, sandy desert Forest, cold or temperate:forest Forest, warm:jungle Hills:rugged terrain up to 2,000 feet elevation Marsh:bog, moor, swamp Mountain:rugged terrain above 2,000 feet elevation Plains:farmland, grassland, steppe, prairie Underground:dungeons, caverns Track: A jager gains Track as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (Ex): A jager can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The jager rolls 1d20 and adds his jager level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use wild empathy, the jager and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. The jager can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check. Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a jager must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. This choice affects the character’s class features but does not restrict his selection of feats or special abilities in any way. If the jager selects archery, he is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the jager selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. The benefits of the jager’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Endurance: A jager gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level. Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a jager gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures may be added to the jager’s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the jager on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the jager’s effective druid level is one-half his jager level. A jager may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can, though again his effective druid level is half his jager level. Like a druid, a jager cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st. Sneak Attack: If a jager can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The jager’s attack deals extra damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the jager flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and it increases by 1d6 every three jager levels thereafter. Should the jager score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a jager can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty. A jager can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The jager must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A jager cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a jager’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the jager selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the jager’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a jager may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him. Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a jager can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking. Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a jager can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the jager is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless jager does not gain the benefit of evasion. Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, a jager’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Precise Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. If the jager selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. As before, the benefits of the jager’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Camouflage (Ex): A jager of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a jager of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.
TheDarkLord 03-31-07, 11:32 PM	I havr nothing particularly useful to say, but I will voice my opinion in favor of the general trend of this thread. One way to get that post count up eh? :D That said, I use the favored Environment varient rather than the favored enemy. I use a feat to gain favored enemy if you want. As for a houserule, you could use an Untrained Knowledge check but add a bonus equal to your ranger level against Favored enemies and such. It kinda makes sense that a ranger might not be wholly knowledgable with everything, but knows alot about a very specific type of creature.
bitter thorn 04-03-07, 04:42 AM	how about a skill called Knoledge (favored enemy) as a class skillany favored enemy the ranger can use the skill on to get info We use Knowledge (favored enemy) as a ranger class skill in our game. It applies to all favored enemies and the favord enemy bonus applies to the roll.