Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 07-30-05, 10:51 AM	How does everyone feel the balance is between Favored Enemy and Favored Environment (from UA) ?? They work the same, but Favored Enemy grants bonuses to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival, as well as to damage vs. a type (or sub-type) of creature. Favored Environment grants bonuses to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival and Knowledge (nature) for all such checks in a particular environment (out of 10 choices). I feel the loss of the bonus damage is a hard hit, but the ability to apply bonuses to a whole environment, rather than specific types of creatures, is very versatile . . . However, I am not sure it's worth the loss of up to +10 on damage rolls vs. a specific type of creature(s). Opinions ??
Corau 07-30-05, 11:21 AM	What I would suggest would be to give rangers a choice at first level, out of favoured enemy and favoured environment, and then it's their own problem if they take the wrong one.
Fading away 07-30-05, 11:27 AM	I apply them to all rolls, which includes damage as well. Sorta like my mage-slayer, who cannot use magic weapons, so he gets the damage bonus from his knowledge in anatomy, or however you spell that word...
Shadowfax7 07-30-05, 01:08 PM	I apply them to all rolls, which includes damage as well. Not sure what you mean . . . do you mean that you would allow a Ranger w/Favored Environment to add his/her bonus to damage rolls to any creature in that environment as well ??
Kintara 07-30-05, 01:25 PM	The cool thing about Favored Environment is that you get a bonus to Hide/Move Silently. You become Camo Bushman Extreme. It's nice if you want to snipe at someone, especially if you stack it with Camoflage (the Complete Divine Ranger spell), and other bonuses to hide. It also just makes you a better scout in general, besides the hide/move silently, because you can be assured of getting your spot/listen bonus if you're in the right environment. It kind of sucks to receive a bonus on spot checks against certain types of enemies. I suspect many people forget count it at all.
Shadowfax7 07-30-05, 05:05 PM	Thanx for your replies, I myself like Favored Environment, but my concern listed in the original post is . . . I am not sure it's worth the loss of up to +10 on damage rolls vs. a specific type of creature(s).
caeruleus 07-30-05, 09:14 PM	I am not sure it's worth the loss of up to +10 on damage rolls vs. a specific type of creature(s). If your campaign only involves fighting, then sure, go with favored enemy. If you try to handle things differently, favored environment can be a good choice. And personally, I see no reason why the same ranger can't choose a favored enemy at one level, and a favored environment at another.
Shadowfax7 07-31-05, 11:08 AM	If your campaign only involves fighting, then sure, go with favored enemy. If you try to handle things differently, favored environment can be a good choice. My campaign is more RP and less combat, thus I like Favored Environment more, but the question still is . . . whether the loss of up to a +10 bonus to damage against a specific type of creature underpowers the Ranger considering s/he isn't a high damage dealer to begin with. And personally, I see no reason why the same ranger can't choose a favored enemy at one level, and a favored environment at another. I disagree with this, it's one or the other. Otherwise you would have stackable bonuses, such as an orc in the desert and you have Favored Enemy orc and Favored Environment desert.
Lina_Inverse 07-31-05, 12:42 PM	considering many many caimpaigns only take place in one or two enviroments.....
jaerad 07-31-05, 01:14 PM	If you're not in a combat heavy campaign, I'd definetly go with Favored Environment. It's a lot easier to pick an environment that your DM uses a lot than pick an enemy (s)he uses a lot. Not to mention that as a DM it's a lot easier to stop throwing favored enemies at you than it is to wisk you away to a different environment. I see no problem in having them both. It's like picking the same favored enemy twice, they stack some but it's not all that terrible. Plus, what's wrong with the flavor of being a badass in the desert - and you've also studied the hell out of Goblinoids? If anything, I think that having both makes you a more iconic Ranger.
Shadowfax7 07-31-05, 09:54 PM	But the original question still is . . . whether the loss of up to a +10 bonus to damage against a specific type of creature because Favored Environment has no damage bonuses underpowers the Ranger considering s/he isn't a high damage dealer to begin with.
caeruleus 08-01-05, 02:32 AM	If your campaign isn't combat oriented, as you claim, then why should that matter? A ranger is not a high damage dealer because he should fill a different role in the party. If you're so worried about it, take favored enemy.
jaerad 08-01-05, 04:34 AM	Like caeruleus said, if you think it's important take it. But you did tell us that your campaign was not melee oriented. Me, I'd take it either way. I gave my reasons, and I stand by my claim that you're often more likely to be in the same/similar environment than tackling the same creature type. Especially when you start getting Bane weapons to stack with your Favored Enemy. DMs tend to start building different encounters, even if they aren't really intending to short-change you. But then again, I think one could take both. So, figure out how you guys want to game, what you think is balanced, and go from there. Is +10 to damage nice for Rangers? Yes. But it's circumstancial, so you can't really count on it.
Shadowfax7 08-02-05, 12:25 PM	I should clarify. I prefer Favored Environment and it definitely fits my campaign, as well as the fact that I would make it useful. I feel that Favored Enemy might be more powerful than Favored Environment due to the damage bonus and thus should offer player(s) choosing a Ranger something to make up the difference ?? So, the purpose of my question is whether replacing Favored Enemy with Favored Environment is a balanced change, as per UA. Now, I am not sure this makes any difference, but Rangers in my campaign are spell-less and have been given substitute abilities to balance the lack of spells already.
Kintara 08-02-05, 03:56 PM	Like I said, Favored Environment makes the skill bonuses more reliable and useful, as long as you pick ones that come up. It'll probably make the Rangers feel more rangy and less like hunters of some kind.
Talcoram Cyndar 08-02-05, 04:10 PM	Personally, I perfer the Favored Enviroments varient. I am currenty using it on my Orc Barb/Ranger. As we are going through the Worlds Largest Dungeon, he choose the underground enviroment. Even though WLD is a heavy combat oriented campaign, the terrain bonuses help alot. -TC
Shadowfax7 08-02-05, 08:59 PM	So, it seems that most people feel that Favored Environment as written in UA is a balanced replacement for Favored Enemy for the Ranger.
caeruleus 08-04-05, 12:49 AM	So, it seems that most people feel that Favored Environment as written in UA is a balanced replacement for Favored Enemy for the Ranger. That depends on the campaign, as "balance" (if such a thing exists) is relative to how your game works. As I said above, if a campaign is heavy on combat, it would not be a balanced trade. Otherwise, it probably will be (again, depending on the details of the campaign).