Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zorachus 04-27-04, 10:47 AM	After looking through the variants in UA, a friend came up with an idea for one that wasn't listed. I wanted to run it by some folks here to see if they thought it was balanced. Granted, I am aware that something similar could be done with prestige classes or multiclassing, but still... Variant Ranger loses: Tracking, Animal Companion, Swift Tracker, all Favored Enemies gains: Trapfinding; Disable Device, Open Lock, Appraise, and Decipher Script added to skill list The idea was that as opposed to a tracker or foehunter, this was a person who spent a great deal of time the wilderness in search of ancient ruins & other abandoned locales. A more combat-capable, less versatile Wilderness Rogue variant, if you will. Thoughts on balance?
Salla 04-27-04, 10:54 AM	On the whole ... I'd say that's remarkably underpowered. They lose several very useful abilities (including the remarkably potent Favored Enemy) for some moderately useful ones.
Zorachus 04-27-04, 10:57 AM	What would you change to balance it?
Cathon 04-27-04, 09:15 PM	I'd use Favored Terrain rules from Unearthed Arcana to replace favored enemy (he still has survival skills in the areas he searches), keep the new skills, but go ahead and subtract Animal Handling from class skills. Then I'd boost spell casting: give him some utility spells like Knock, Dig, Stone Shape etc on his list, and increase spell casting progression to give him more spells per day, and maybe learning them earlier. That should balance the loss of the animal companion. Maybe throw in uncanny dodge at a higher level if that isn't already in Ranger's repertoire. An extra skill point per level wouldn't hurt with those new class skills. How is your variant more combat capable? Did you leave out boosting his hit dice or something?
Zorachus 04-28-04, 08:48 AM	Well, more combat-capable than the Rogue, in the sense that this template would have a higher BAB (+1/1), and higher hit points (d8), plus the Ranger combat packages (bow or two wpn.)
Cathon 04-28-04, 03:11 PM	Ah, right, I must have seen Ranger when you wrote Rogue.
Kastas 04-28-04, 03:43 PM	I don't think you should take out Favored Enemies, since the character is still likely to run into certain kinds of enemies. After all, when's the last time you found completely abandoned ruins in a D&D game?
Zorachus 04-29-04, 10:10 PM	So, perhaps remove Track, Animal Companion, and Swift Tracker, in exchange for Trapfinding, and adding Disable Device, Open Lock, Appraise, and Decipher Script to the skill list. Does that seem balanced, then?
unundindur 04-30-04, 06:06 AM	Originally posted by Zorachus So, perhaps remove Track, Animal Companion, and Swift Tracker, in exchange for Trapfinding, and adding Disable Device, Open Lock, Appraise, and Decipher Script to the skill list. Does that seem balanced, then? No... You need to boost this new variant very much. He looses about 3 feats while he gains 1 feat and five class skills. I woun't call that a fair trade. I guess you could do the following: Subtract: Track, Animal companion, Swift tracker and animal empathy(didn't the ranger have that ability?). Add: Hide in plain sight (works everywhere instead of only forests), Trapfinding, Add skills as you said, Skill mastery at level 10 (perhaps for Open lock, Search and Disable devise?). Now I am happy :) Anyways, hope you find a solution.
Zorachus 04-30-04, 09:30 AM	Thank you. I do like that proposed solution.