Post/Author/DateTime	Post
caeruleus 08-17-05, 10:03 PM	I like the idea of a ranger without spellcasting, but I don't like the one presented in Complete Warrior; replacing spells with spell-like abilities defeats the purpose. So imagine a ranger without spells, and with the following abilities. Does this look alright? 4th level: Fast movement (as barbarian) 8th level: Uncanny dodge (as barbarian or rogue) 12th level: Trackless step (as druid) 16th level: Improved evasion (as monk or rogue) 20th level: Supreme combat style* * If the ranger had chosen two-weapon style, he gets a fourth attack with his off-hand weapon. If the ranger had chosen archery style, he can make ranged attacks without provoking an attack of oportunity. (Both of these replicate an epic level feat, but I don't think that's a problem for 20th level.)
Melpomene 08-17-05, 11:04 PM	Monte Cooke offers combat rites as replacements for spells in martial classes. Also, AEG has a very large selection of options for the non-spellcasting ranger (around 30, I think).
Edymnion 08-18-05, 01:01 AM	You might like the non-spellcasting ranger varient I have up on the class board. Ranger Varient: Savage Ranger
caeruleus 08-18-05, 10:50 PM	I was asking about the variant I posted.
neilthrun 08-22-05, 01:22 AM	Seems a tad underpowered. Uncanny dodge really isnt that great. Somethings to consider adding. Bonus feats, only one or two. Make them fairly ranger specific, like Improved Favored Enemey, Stealthy, Improved Iniative etc. Or you could increase them to 6 skill points a level. Maybe 6 skill points a level and full bab could be abused, but probably not that bad. Spell casting is a powerfull thing, Any ranger thats going to be lvl 10 plus with out it would probably be better off going into a prc. Keep that in mind.
caeruleus 08-22-05, 03:23 PM	Seems a tad underpowered. Uncanny dodge really isnt that great. Somethings to consider adding. Bonus feats, only one or two. Make them fairly ranger specific, like Improved Favored Enemey, Stealthy, Improved Iniative etc. Or you could increase them to 6 skill points a level. Maybe 6 skill points a level and full bab could be abused, but probably not that bad. Spell casting is a powerfull thing, Any ranger thats going to be lvl 10 plus with out it would probably be better off going into a prc. Keep that in mind. Rangers already have 6 skill points per level. Unless you're talking about the 3.0 ranger. But then, that was already poorly designed.
Siberys 08-22-05, 05:00 PM	I would like one w/o spell-like abilities, but they'r logical at least. Think of how they fit with Aragorn; RP it as finding the right Herbs, etc. Done. However, I do understand your desire, and believe that replacing Uncanny Dodge with SCS (renaming it "Superior Combat Style"), And make Supreme allow 5 attacks Would Work. In fact, I'm using this... :cool: EDIT: Wait? that's an Epic effect. Nay Mind! I'll post a better idea momentarily...
Siberys 08-22-05, 05:44 PM	Combat Style Ranger 4th level: Fast movement (as barbarian) 8th level: Trackless step (as druid) 12th level: Improved Evasion (As monk or Rogue) 16th level: Superior Combat Style 20th level: Supreme Combat Style NAME 1)Bear-Wrestling 2)Mounted Combat 3)Piscator 4)Ranged 5)Strong Arm 6)Throwing 7)Two Weapon SUPERIOR 1)Mobility 2)Mounted Archery 3)Improved Disarm 4)Shot on the Run 5)Improved Bull Rush 6)Shot on the Run 7)Greater Two Weapon Defense (as Two Weapon Defense, except grants +5 Shield bonus to AC) SUPREME 1)May Make one Extra Unarmed attack per round 2)When using Trample, you deal 2d6 extra damage 3)When tripping someone with a weapon and you fail, your opponent does not have the option to attempt to trip you back. Additionally, you deal an extra 1d6 non-lethal damage when if you succeed on tripping them. 4)Ranged attacks without attacks of opportunity 5)On a power attack, you may subtract up to twice your Base Attack Bonus from your attack instead of the normal limit (Your BAB) 6)You may move your full speed both before and after making a ranged attack. 7)Fourth off-hand weapon attack The Extra Combat Styles are from an old Dragon Issue.
caeruleus 08-24-05, 04:06 AM	4th level: Fast movement (as barbarian) 8th level: Trackless step (as druid) 12th level: Improved Evasion (As monk or Rogue) 16th level: Superior Combat Style 20th level: Supreme Combat Style This isn't bad, thanks for the suggestion. Here's an issue that comes up for me, though. Rangers don't get evasion until 9th level. Isn't 12th level (a mere three levels later) too soon for them to get improved evasion? Monks and rogues get evasion at 2nd level, and don't get improved evasion until 9th level (for monks) or at least 10th (for rogues); a fairly long time to wait after first getting evasion. Or do you think that shouldn't be an issue at all?
Siberys 08-24-05, 11:01 AM	Well, both are still later than a rogue or monk'd get 'em. Doesn't seem like a problem to me.
Atanatotatos 09-07-05, 06:47 AM	I read that each spellcasting level is valued worth one (good,i guess) feat or ability so I'd go (i was already thinking about that, indeed): lvl 1: animal companion as druids (all that people complaining about weak companions for rangers would be glad) lvl 4: 10 foot improved speed lvl 8: Uncanny dodge lvl 11: Trackless step lvl 16: Superior style mastery: Perfect two weapon fighting (it's epic but i guess it's ok as an only-ranger allowance) or Improved rapid shot (lets you use rapid shot without -2 penalty, CW i think) They're four, because i guess lvl 4,8 and 11 aren't worth a level of spellcasting on their own...
Draco Strang 09-08-05, 02:54 AM	I cooked up a no-magic ranger for my homebrew world. Dig it: All stuff is the same, except as noted: 1st: Favored Environment: As per Horizon Walker. First favored enemy doesn't come until 5th level. 2nd: Combat Style 1: Rangers may advance in two different combat styles. Each style has a pre-determined feat tree. The styles are Archery, TWF, THF, Cavalry, Light, Polearms, Shield, and Spear Snipe +1 At 2nd level, and every even level thereafter, a ranger gains a bonus to any Hide check made after striking from a hidden position, when his foe was flat footed. 4th: Combat Style 2 A ranger may select a second combat style, and the pre-determined feat tree that comes with it. 5th: 1st Favored Enemy: At 5th level, (and every five levels after that) rangers gain a favored enemy. Nature's Speed: At 5th level, a ranger gains a +5 bonus to his base land speed, provided that he is wearing medium, light, or no armor, and isn't carrying a medium or heavy load. 6th: Improved Combat Style 1: Rangers gain the second feat in their first combat style tree. 8th: Improved Combat Style 2: Rangers gain the second feat in their second combat style tree. 11th: Combat Style 1 Mastery: Rangers gain the third feat in their first combat style feat tree. 13th Combat Style 2 Mastery: Rangers gain the third feat in their second combat style feat tree. Combat Style (Ex) At 2nd level, the ranger gains access to his first combat style, which encompasses a series of three consecutive feats. At 4th level, he enters into his second combat style, which also encompasses a series of three consecutive feats. Archery: Rapid Shot TWF: Two Weapon Fighting Polearms: Choke Up Shield: Improved Shield Bash Spear Choke Up Two-Handed: Cleave Cavalry: Ride-by attack Light Weapon Finesse Improved Combat Style (Ex) At 6th and 8th levels level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat styles. As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Archery Many Shot TWF ? Polearms Improved Trip/Disarm Shield Shield Charge Spear Combat Reflexes Two-Handed Great Cleave Cavalry Spirited Charge Light Improved Initiative Combat Style Mastery (Ex) At 11th and 13th levels, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves again. As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor. Archery Improved Precise Shot TWF ? Polearms Improved Critical Shield Shield Slam Spear Improved Critical Two-Handed Power Critical Cavalry Trample Light Spring Attack As you can see, each feat chain is fairly thematic, and I tried to keep consistency and balance in play. If you see anything glaringly over/underpowered, lemme know. I'm always looking for help. I know I don't have the last two feats for the TWF tree. This is because I didn't want to use the one from the PHB. After all, what's the point in having umptee million extra attacks if they're substantially weaked by a penalty to the attack bonus? I'm thinking about something like Two Weapon Defense, or Twin Sword Style. Dunno yet...again, if you've suggestions, feel free to speak up. This list might also work for a themed fighter or secondary melee character.
caeruleus 09-08-05, 03:29 PM	lvl 1: animal companion as druids (all that people complaining about weak companions for rangers would be glad) That's not a bad idea. However, I might go with keeping it at 4th level, and having the ranger's effective druid level be ranger level -3, rather than half ranger level.
Siberys 09-08-05, 05:03 PM	I may use that, Caeruleus, if okayed by my DM.
caeruleus 09-08-05, 08:07 PM	I may use that, Caeruleus, if okayed by my DM. Yeah, I kinda like it myself, whether the ranger has spellcasting or not.