Ranger: Initiatior Variant. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ranger: Initiatior Variant. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
X-Codes
09-29-06, 04:27 AM The usual, spellcasting Ranger just doesn't sit right with me, and honestly the CWar non-spellcasting variant just gives SLAs to replace commonly-used Ranger spells and just doesn't compensate for the loss of spellcasting. So I decided I wanted to make the Ranger a little more interesting and change it's Spellcasting into Martial Manuvers.

Class Skills: The Ranger gains Balance and Tumble as class skills and loses Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and Search as class skills.

Initiatior Level: A Ranger's Initiatior level is half his Ranger level (rounded up) until level 12, at which point it becomes his Ranger level -5.

Manuvers Known: A Ranger starts with 2 manuvers known at level 1, and learns one extra manuver at levels 5, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 (9 total). The manuvers a Ranger knows can be taken from the Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw disciplines.
At each level he learns a new manuver, a Ranger can switch out one known manuver for another manuver whose pre-requisites he meets. He can not swap manuvers in a way that would cause him to no longer meet the pre-requisites of another manuver.

Manuvers Readied: A Ranger can ready 1 manuver at level 1, and can ready one more manuver at levels 5, 13, and 19. If a Ranger does not use any manuver during his turn, he may use a move action to take a moment to center and relax his body and mind. At the start of the Ranger's next turn after doing this, all of his manuvers are refreshed.

Stances Known: A Ranger learns his first stance at level 2, his second at level 11, and his third at level 20. The stances a Ranger knows can be taken from the Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw disciplines.

So, can I get some input on this idea? I'm looking for mostly balance issues you might see; the fluff is almost entirely the same, except these Rangers IMC practice with their weapons whenever Rangers in other campaigns practice with magic.
Rhialto
09-29-06, 06:02 AM It looks like your ranger is some kind of martial artist. Is that right?
X-Codes
09-29-06, 05:41 PM It looks like your ranger is some kind of martial artist. Is that right?
Something like that, but like I said I'm not looking for fluff I'm more interested in whether or not the manuver setup I have is too strong.
stabs
10-01-06, 03:41 AM I like it. At mid-high levels, it doesn't look like it'd be too overpowered compared to a Ranger with smart spell choices (Foebane, Fine the Gap, Rhino Ruch, Lion's Pounce).

The only issue there might be is that the Ranger doesn't usually have spells as early as you give it maneuvres. As a simple solution, I would just move all granted maneuvre abilities up four levels. (so you get your first one at level 4).

Otherwise, someone dipping into Ranger gets a HUGE benefit from chosing this over the regular Spellcasting Ranger.
X-Codes
10-02-06, 02:02 AM I like it. At mid-high levels, it doesn't look like it'd be too overpowered compared to a Ranger with smart spell choices (Foebane, Fine the Gap, Rhino Ruch, Lion's Pounce).

The only issue there might be is that the Ranger doesn't usually have spells as early as you give it maneuvres. As a simple solution, I would just move all granted maneuvre abilities up four levels. (so you get your first one at level 4).

Otherwise, someone dipping into Ranger gets a HUGE benefit from chosing this over the regular Spellcasting Ranger.
Thanks. I'm not worried about people dipping Spellcasting Ranger because Rangers don't cast spells IMC. If they really want Manuvers then they can go for Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader, wheras Ranger has Favored Enemy and a few semi-unique and rather strong Class Skills (Survival, Heal, and Handle Animal).
Llochlyn
10-02-06, 06:00 AM The move action refresh is pretty strong for an archer ranger... Hum that said, I've never looked at how maneuvers interact with ranged attacks, probably not at all...

Your idea is quite good, and I might offer the chance to use it to the ranger in my campaign, given he is a RB, he'll get some benefit from it, especially from tiger claw maneuvers and (for flavor) desert wind.
Jackmojo
10-02-06, 01:47 PM :shifty:

*hires bounty hunter to steal this idea for a ranger variant I was working on*

:incog: :fett:

:tiphat:

Jack

P.S. I think I'd go with not getting maneuvers and stances till level 4, but have it operate at full initiator level (i.e. intiator level = class level), rather then the standard half. As to recovering, perhaps a full round action to recover all (a.k.a. worse then warblade, better then swordsage)
taylors005
03-10-07, 07:29 AM i'm not sure how the martial adepts balance with anything yet but i think this variant works it also does what i need it to for a shifter ranger variant i want to make
taylors005
03-10-07, 09:20 AM Class Skills: The hexblade gains Balance and Tumble as class skills and loses Knowledge (arcana) and Search as class skills.

Initiatior Level: A hexblade's Initiatior level is half his hexblade level (rounded up) until level 12, at which point it becomes his hexblade level -5.

Manuvers Known: A hexblade learns 2 manuvers known at level 4, and learns one extra manuver at levels 5, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 (9 total). The manuvers a hexblade knows can be taken from the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, or Tiger Claw disciplines.
At each level he learns a new manuver, a hexblade can switch out one known manuver for another manuver whose pre-requisites he meets. He can not swap manuvers in a way that would cause him to no longer meet the pre-requisites of another manuver.

Manuvers Readied: A hexblade can ready 1 manuver at level 4, and can ready one more manuver at levels 5, 13, and 19. If a hexblade does not use any manuver during his turn, he may use a full round action to center and relax his body and mind. At the start of the hexblade's next turn after doing this, all of his manuvers are refreshed.

Stances Known: A hexblade learns his first stance at level 4, his second at level 11, and his third at level 20. The stances a hexblade knows can be taken from the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, or Tiger Claw disciplines.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-10-07, 10:11 AM See your other thread for critique, taylors005.

Also, on said other thread, give X-Codes credit, or at least link back here. You basically just stole his system and changed the schools around. Give him some credit for coming up with it.
Seerow
03-10-07, 11:46 AM Radical Taoist already has a great Sublime Way Ranger variant on the classes board.
taylors005
03-12-07, 04:30 AM how do you do links
Jerks
03-12-07, 12:48 PM It's one way to go, and I like the ideal in principle as I'm rather enamoured with the ToB to begin with.

However, I think that the progression is a bit on the strong side considering the general nature (level and caster level) of spells that it is replacing. Another thing that is regrettable about manuevers is that they are very melee focused, and therefore, won't mesh well with ranged builds.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
X-Codes 09-29-06, 04:27 AM	The usual, spellcasting Ranger just doesn't sit right with me, and honestly the CWar non-spellcasting variant just gives SLAs to replace commonly-used Ranger spells and just doesn't compensate for the loss of spellcasting. So I decided I wanted to make the Ranger a little more interesting and change it's Spellcasting into Martial Manuvers. Class Skills: The Ranger gains Balance and Tumble as class skills and loses Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and Search as class skills. Initiatior Level: A Ranger's Initiatior level is half his Ranger level (rounded up) until level 12, at which point it becomes his Ranger level -5. Manuvers Known: A Ranger starts with 2 manuvers known at level 1, and learns one extra manuver at levels 5, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 (9 total). The manuvers a Ranger knows can be taken from the Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw disciplines. At each level he learns a new manuver, a Ranger can switch out one known manuver for another manuver whose pre-requisites he meets. He can not swap manuvers in a way that would cause him to no longer meet the pre-requisites of another manuver. Manuvers Readied: A Ranger can ready 1 manuver at level 1, and can ready one more manuver at levels 5, 13, and 19. If a Ranger does not use any manuver during his turn, he may use a move action to take a moment to center and relax his body and mind. At the start of the Ranger's next turn after doing this, all of his manuvers are refreshed. Stances Known: A Ranger learns his first stance at level 2, his second at level 11, and his third at level 20. The stances a Ranger knows can be taken from the Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw disciplines. So, can I get some input on this idea? I'm looking for mostly balance issues you might see; the fluff is almost entirely the same, except these Rangers IMC practice with their weapons whenever Rangers in other campaigns practice with magic.
Rhialto 09-29-06, 06:02 AM	It looks like your ranger is some kind of martial artist. Is that right?
X-Codes 09-29-06, 05:41 PM	It looks like your ranger is some kind of martial artist. Is that right? Something like that, but like I said I'm not looking for fluff I'm more interested in whether or not the manuver setup I have is too strong.
stabs 10-01-06, 03:41 AM	I like it. At mid-high levels, it doesn't look like it'd be too overpowered compared to a Ranger with smart spell choices (Foebane, Fine the Gap, Rhino Ruch, Lion's Pounce). The only issue there might be is that the Ranger doesn't usually have spells as early as you give it maneuvres. As a simple solution, I would just move all granted maneuvre abilities up four levels. (so you get your first one at level 4). Otherwise, someone dipping into Ranger gets a HUGE benefit from chosing this over the regular Spellcasting Ranger.
X-Codes 10-02-06, 02:02 AM	I like it. At mid-high levels, it doesn't look like it'd be too overpowered compared to a Ranger with smart spell choices (Foebane, Fine the Gap, Rhino Ruch, Lion's Pounce). The only issue there might be is that the Ranger doesn't usually have spells as early as you give it maneuvres. As a simple solution, I would just move all granted maneuvre abilities up four levels. (so you get your first one at level 4). Otherwise, someone dipping into Ranger gets a HUGE benefit from chosing this over the regular Spellcasting Ranger. Thanks. I'm not worried about people dipping Spellcasting Ranger because Rangers don't cast spells IMC. If they really want Manuvers then they can go for Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader, wheras Ranger has Favored Enemy and a few semi-unique and rather strong Class Skills (Survival, Heal, and Handle Animal).
Llochlyn 10-02-06, 06:00 AM	The move action refresh is pretty strong for an archer ranger... Hum that said, I've never looked at how maneuvers interact with ranged attacks, probably not at all... Your idea is quite good, and I might offer the chance to use it to the ranger in my campaign, given he is a RB, he'll get some benefit from it, especially from tiger claw maneuvers and (for flavor) desert wind.
Jackmojo 10-02-06, 01:47 PM	:shifty: hires bounty hunter to steal this idea for a ranger variant I was working on :incog: :fett: :tiphat: Jack P.S. I think I'd go with not getting maneuvers and stances till level 4, but have it operate at full initiator level (i.e. intiator level = class level), rather then the standard half. As to recovering, perhaps a full round action to recover all (a.k.a. worse then warblade, better then swordsage)
taylors005 03-10-07, 07:29 AM	i'm not sure how the martial adepts balance with anything yet but i think this variant works it also does what i need it to for a shifter ranger variant i want to make
taylors005 03-10-07, 09:20 AM	Class Skills: The hexblade gains Balance and Tumble as class skills and loses Knowledge (arcana) and Search as class skills. Initiatior Level: A hexblade's Initiatior level is half his hexblade level (rounded up) until level 12, at which point it becomes his hexblade level -5. Manuvers Known: A hexblade learns 2 manuvers known at level 4, and learns one extra manuver at levels 5, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 (9 total). The manuvers a hexblade knows can be taken from the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, or Tiger Claw disciplines. At each level he learns a new manuver, a hexblade can switch out one known manuver for another manuver whose pre-requisites he meets. He can not swap manuvers in a way that would cause him to no longer meet the pre-requisites of another manuver. Manuvers Readied: A hexblade can ready 1 manuver at level 4, and can ready one more manuver at levels 5, 13, and 19. If a hexblade does not use any manuver during his turn, he may use a full round action to center and relax his body and mind. At the start of the hexblade's next turn after doing this, all of his manuvers are refreshed. Stances Known: A hexblade learns his first stance at level 4, his second at level 11, and his third at level 20. The stances a hexblade knows can be taken from the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, or Tiger Claw disciplines.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-10-07, 10:11 AM	See your other thread for critique, taylors005. Also, on said other thread, give X-Codes credit, or at least link back here. You basically just stole his system and changed the schools around. Give him some credit for coming up with it.
Seerow 03-10-07, 11:46 AM	Radical Taoist already has a great Sublime Way Ranger variant on the classes board.
taylors005 03-12-07, 04:30 AM	how do you do links
Jerks 03-12-07, 12:48 PM	It's one way to go, and I like the ideal in principle as I'm rather enamoured with the ToB to begin with. However, I think that the progression is a bit on the strong side considering the general nature (level and caster level) of spells that it is replacing. Another thing that is regrettable about manuevers is that they are very melee focused, and therefore, won't mesh well with ranged builds.