Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Behaigo 01-07-07, 07:29 PM	As I understand it, spell slots have no meaning to a sorcerer with recharge magic, is that correct? Meaning that (other then increased saves) having a high charisma doesn't realy mean nearly as much to a recharging sorcerer as it does a recharging wizard, is that correct? If so, what is something I can do for a player to make it more important again?
legophreak 01-09-07, 11:10 AM	I use the Recharge variant myself, and i have yet to come up with something beneficial for the High Cha as well. I know a friend of mine had suggested giving them bonus spells known that correspond to the bonus spells from the chart for a high attribute, but that seems slightly overpowered to me. Definately need to come up with something.
Darkmatter20 01-09-07, 01:19 PM	We play with the recharge varient as well. We give bonus spells known for a high charisma so far it really hasn't have much of an impact on the game (unmodified by stat boosters obviously). Really all it means is one extra 1st level, one extra 2nd level and one extra 3rd level spell known. By the time you get a very high charisma it really won't have too much impact.
Thelon Fairblade 01-09-07, 01:38 PM	Maybe I'm imssing something, but doesn't CHA still affect the DCs of your spells? Isn't that really the critical issue?
legophreak 01-09-07, 03:17 PM	Cha does increase the DC's just as much as Int increases the DC's for the wizard. Difference is that Wiz gets bonus spells per day added to their daily list, while sorc gets no such bonus. Wizard gains versatility with the ability to change list on a daily basis. Sorcerer gains faster recharge timers with limited list of spells. Some would argue that the faster recharge is "the" benefit in and of itself, but i would say otherwise. I suppose to be fair, you just don't give the Wizard their bonus to their daily list and that solves the problem. You are still casting all your spells as much as you want, you just don't get a greater variety for it. I am still undecided on this.
Valoy_Muniz 01-09-07, 04:00 PM	I would go with the bounes to spell known.
legophreak 01-09-07, 04:04 PM	That was my original thinking, but decided against it. I might put it back in. I realize it only helps in the early on, and that's when casters need it the most.
Keterys 01-12-07, 01:43 AM	I was finding that sorcerer types were really lagging behind wizard types in recharge, and was also bothered by the lack of a use for their bonus spell progression, so I let them apply their bonus spell progression as round reducers on recharge (usable on a per encounter basis, or call it a 5 min recharge for the whole pyramid, whatever works for you) Ie, your 26 charisma 18th level sorcerer has 0 9th, 1 8th-5th, 2 4th-1st bonus spells normally. So each encounter they could reduce a recharge on those relevant levels by that amount of rounds. Haven't playtested it at high level yet (just up to like 10th-12th)... but it's been fine so far. It made the two much more of a choice than they had been...
legophreak 01-12-07, 01:55 AM	Ie, your 26 charisma 18th level sorcerer has 0 9th, 1 8th-5th, 2 4th-1st bonus spells normally. So each encounter they could reduce a recharge on those relevant levels by that amount of rounds. I see what you are saying, but by the time a sorcerer gets that high, they can cast those low levels spells every round if they want to because their recharge is that much shorter then the wizard. Now the higher level spells would benefit from that tremendously...especially for the damage heavy sorcerer. But as you say, more playtesting will tell the tale. On paper, it seems at higher levels it won't matter anymore because the recharge timers will be so small anyway.
Keterys 01-12-07, 09:26 AM	but by the time a sorcerer gets that high, they can cast those low levels spells every round if they want to because their recharge is that much shorter then the wizard. The recharge timers go down more slowly than you think, especially for your best spells. Ie, it's 1d4+1 (9th,8th), then 1d4 (7th,6th), then 1d3 (5th,4th), then 1 (3rd,2nd), then 0 (1st,0th), every 2. So there is an advantage there for your 8th through 4th spells most definitely, and at 18th your bonus 1st level spells don't really matter no matter recharge or not :) So at 18th level, you could have the following: Round 1: 9th level spell (1d4+1, say 4), quickened (rapid metamagic feat) 2nd (1d4, say 2) Round 2: 8th level spell (1d4+1, say 3), reduce 6th recharge by 1, quickened 2nd again (1d4, say 3) Round 3: 7th level spell (1d4, say 2), quickened 1st (1d3, say 2) Round 4: Reduce 8th recharge by 1, 8th level spell, Reduce 7th level recharge by 1, quickened 3rd level So, it has a real impact. The biggest concern I have is whether the impact is too strong. Obviously, if the impact is nice but not too game breaking then it works out better (I mean, at the moment they get nothing :)
Thelon Fairblade 01-12-07, 04:07 PM	Too complicated, IMHO. What I did, to make wizards and sorcerers distinct, is I gave Recharge magic to Sorcerers only. Wizards still prepare spells...
Keterys 01-14-07, 11:38 AM	Yeah... I would never mix recharge with non-recharge :) As for too complicated (most of the complexity above was just the standard recharge rules?). It just uses the bonus spells progression, but yeah, I'd be welcome to see something simpler that doesn't get broken easily by losing points of stat or taking an item off (ie, spells known) or give too much power.
FeceMan 01-15-07, 09:10 AM	Perhaps each bonus spell slot reduces the recharge time for spells of that level by one round, to a minimum of one round?
LostMage 01-15-07, 11:49 AM	I've only played with the recharge variant for one or two adventures, and I've been concerned about how it affects the sorcerer, too. I not sure if I will, but I am thinking about lumping the sorcerer and the wizard together, so as to have only one arcane spellcasting class for my campaign. The mix would have the d4 recharge time, and more spells than the sorcerer but less than the wizard. Any ideas on that? Or, I also thought of giving the sorcerer the ability to still or silence spells a certain number of times per day, though I don't think that'll work too well.
Valoy_Muniz 01-16-07, 01:16 PM	Try using the battel soc for this. They would have 1 less spell to pick from but since you do not have a spell per day that part does not effect them.
FeceMan 01-17-07, 01:02 AM	The sorcerer's bonus is probably that he gets to cast spells more often...same with the bard...