Recharging spells varient only for Sorceror [Archive] - Wizards Community

Recharging spells varient only for Sorceror [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ssvegeta555
11-20-04, 01:57 AM I'm been trying for a while to make the sorceror unique and stand out IMC. I've tried making sorcerors specalize in elemtents, but that turned out to be difficult. So I read UA for ideas, I came across the spell recharge varient (pg. 157) and wondered if this would work.

So, I have a few questions on this matter.

If I do use this varient for sorcerors only would that make them too powerful compared to the other spellcasters (mainly the wizard)?

If it is too powerful what suggestions would you suggest to balance it?

Also, lets say the varient is in effect, would the sorceor pretty much ignore his spells per day chart in the PHB? I'm pretty sure he does just got to make sure I understand it.
Greyman
11-22-04, 11:01 AM The balance depends a lot on encounters-per-day, and average encounter length.

If encounters are short and infrequent, the recharge sorcerer would have no advantage. She may even be at a slight disadvantage due to the need to wait for recharge times.

However, if the average adventure day is filled with many long encounters, the recharge sorcerer would have a definite advantage.
CaoSlayer
11-22-04, 11:58 AM The balance depends a lot on encounters-per-day, and average encounter length.

If encounters are short and infrequent, the recharge sorcerer would have no advantage. She may even be at a slight disadvantage due to the need to wait for recharge times.

However, if the average adventure day is filled with many long encounters, the recharge sorcerer would have a definite advantage.

in few words:

not good at roleplaying heavy games.
good at dungeons crawls.
ssvegeta555
11-22-04, 02:49 PM It might work then. Most of my games are combat heavy. It's like the psion to keep balance, multiple encounters=balance.

Though I do feel the recharge time for general spells is too long, especially at first level. Having to wait 2-5 rounds to recharge can be a drag.
Greyman
11-23-04, 04:35 AM That is the point! You get a heck of a lot more spells per day, but in return you will cast fewer spells per encounter. You just need to use different tactics, that's all.

With enough time to recover between encounters, you can be assured that you will have all of your general slots recharged, but you have to choose which to expend, and when, with a little more care.

A first level sorcerer will only be able to cast one cantrip and one first level spell in an encounter, but she will be able to do so for just about every encounter (assuming enough time lapses between encounters). The first level wizard, on the other hand, will be able to unload spell after spell each round, but doing so will depleat his daily reserve.

PS: Remember, however, that most buffing spells have special recharge times, and thus you can cast another spell of the same level in the next round (though it does not work in reverse). So defend first, attack later.
ssvegeta555
11-23-04, 04:00 PM True, you make a good point.

Thanks for the help.
IceFractal
11-24-04, 02:04 PM I think it'll probably make the Sorcerer more effective as part of a group, but less effective solo, not that that's a problem, per se. It'll definately differentiate the Sorcerer and Wizard, sounds good to me.

BTW, if you apply this to the Bard the effect will be a lot more significant, because the Bard has healing spells, so unless you're going to be making all magic recharging I wouldn't change the Bard to using it.
scwolf
11-28-04, 08:30 AM I'd been toying around with some concepts for a sorcerer variant that had exclusive access to recharge magic. The old thread is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=295353) but let me warn you, I haven't really had any oportunites to playtest it, and also I wrote most of that months before the release of Complete Arcane, and have been meaning to revise the variant to include all the fun new toys Comp. Arc. introduced.
Thelon Fairblade
11-28-04, 10:08 AM Think about this, though... by 6th level, the sorcerer can unleash Fireball, Scorching Ray, Magic missile... and then do it again... and again... and again...
Greyman
11-29-04, 08:08 AM Mmm... Thelon has a good point. In a mixed game perhaps recharge rates as given are a little too generous. For one thing, the sorcerer was given somewhat faster recharge rates to compensate for the loss of the spontaneous casting advantage over wizard. If wizards remain prepared slot casters that is certainly no longer the case.

As said, the ballance depends on how often combat occurs within a day, and how long it ussually lasts. If the only battle of the day is over by the forth round, then what advantage has the sorcerer gained? Conversely, the sorcerer will definitely have the advantage by the third hour long battle of the morning, unless her recharge rates imposed greater limits.

If combat encounters tend to last for a significant number of rounds and their are a significant number of encounters in an average day, perhaps you could also consider restricting the sorcerer to only one recharge timer, rather than one timer per spell level.
Thelon Fairblade
11-29-04, 10:17 AM One recharge timer makes the sorcerer incompetent in battle, though, and "blaster" was one of the original concepts for the class.

What about this simple, but powerful, benefit: The sorcerer gets her "Spells per day" once in each battle, and once per day outside of battle. That way she can dish out 4 fireballs in a row if she wants, but no more regardless of how long the fight is. And she can lay out 6 Bull's Strengths during the day, but no more than that, regardless of the recharge time.
ssvegeta555
11-29-04, 02:53 PM Ah... I see. That could be a problem, my games are about 60-65% battles, while 40-35% social.

Well, what if I had the general recharge times for sorcerors the same as the recharge times for wizards,clerics ect. would get in the varient?
Garboshnik
12-06-04, 10:44 AM I have actually been using the recharge variant for sorcerors only in my game. To be cautious though I have them use the times as given for wizards. I have one sorceror who is very happy with it and I myself think it is pretty balanced. There is no party wizard to compare him to but he compares well to the cleric and druid.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ssvegeta555 11-20-04, 01:57 AM	I'm been trying for a while to make the sorceror unique and stand out IMC. I've tried making sorcerors specalize in elemtents, but that turned out to be difficult. So I read UA for ideas, I came across the spell recharge varient (pg. 157) and wondered if this would work. So, I have a few questions on this matter. If I do use this varient for sorcerors only would that make them too powerful compared to the other spellcasters (mainly the wizard)? If it is too powerful what suggestions would you suggest to balance it? Also, lets say the varient is in effect, would the sorceor pretty much ignore his spells per day chart in the PHB? I'm pretty sure he does just got to make sure I understand it.
Greyman 11-22-04, 11:01 AM	The balance depends a lot on encounters-per-day, and average encounter length. If encounters are short and infrequent, the recharge sorcerer would have no advantage. She may even be at a slight disadvantage due to the need to wait for recharge times. However, if the average adventure day is filled with many long encounters, the recharge sorcerer would have a definite advantage.
CaoSlayer 11-22-04, 11:58 AM	The balance depends a lot on encounters-per-day, and average encounter length. If encounters are short and infrequent, the recharge sorcerer would have no advantage. She may even be at a slight disadvantage due to the need to wait for recharge times. However, if the average adventure day is filled with many long encounters, the recharge sorcerer would have a definite advantage. in few words: not good at roleplaying heavy games. good at dungeons crawls.
ssvegeta555 11-22-04, 02:49 PM	It might work then. Most of my games are combat heavy. It's like the psion to keep balance, multiple encounters=balance. Though I do feel the recharge time for general spells is too long, especially at first level. Having to wait 2-5 rounds to recharge can be a drag.
Greyman 11-23-04, 04:35 AM	That is the point! You get a heck of a lot more spells per day, but in return you will cast fewer spells per encounter. You just need to use different tactics, that's all. With enough time to recover between encounters, you can be assured that you will have all of your general slots recharged, but you have to choose which to expend, and when, with a little more care. A first level sorcerer will only be able to cast one cantrip and one first level spell in an encounter, but she will be able to do so for just about every encounter (assuming enough time lapses between encounters). The first level wizard, on the other hand, will be able to unload spell after spell each round, but doing so will depleat his daily reserve. PS: Remember, however, that most buffing spells have special recharge times, and thus you can cast another spell of the same level in the next round (though it does not work in reverse). So defend first, attack later.
ssvegeta555 11-23-04, 04:00 PM	True, you make a good point. Thanks for the help.
IceFractal 11-24-04, 02:04 PM	I think it'll probably make the Sorcerer more effective as part of a group, but less effective solo, not that that's a problem, per se. It'll definately differentiate the Sorcerer and Wizard, sounds good to me. BTW, if you apply this to the Bard the effect will be a lot more significant, because the Bard has healing spells, so unless you're going to be making all magic recharging I wouldn't change the Bard to using it.
scwolf 11-28-04, 08:30 AM	I'd been toying around with some concepts for a sorcerer variant that had exclusive access to recharge magic. The old thread is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=295353) but let me warn you, I haven't really had any oportunites to playtest it, and also I wrote most of that months before the release of Complete Arcane, and have been meaning to revise the variant to include all the fun new toys Comp. Arc. introduced.
Thelon Fairblade 11-28-04, 10:08 AM	Think about this, though... by 6th level, the sorcerer can unleash Fireball, Scorching Ray, Magic missile... and then do it again... and again... and again...
Greyman 11-29-04, 08:08 AM	Mmm... Thelon has a good point. In a mixed game perhaps recharge rates as given are a little too generous. For one thing, the sorcerer was given somewhat faster recharge rates to compensate for the loss of the spontaneous casting advantage over wizard. If wizards remain prepared slot casters that is certainly no longer the case. As said, the ballance depends on how often combat occurs within a day, and how long it ussually lasts. If the only battle of the day is over by the forth round, then what advantage has the sorcerer gained? Conversely, the sorcerer will definitely have the advantage by the third hour long battle of the morning, unless her recharge rates imposed greater limits. If combat encounters tend to last for a significant number of rounds and their are a significant number of encounters in an average day, perhaps you could also consider restricting the sorcerer to only one recharge timer, rather than one timer per spell level.
Thelon Fairblade 11-29-04, 10:17 AM	One recharge timer makes the sorcerer incompetent in battle, though, and "blaster" was one of the original concepts for the class. What about this simple, but powerful, benefit: The sorcerer gets her "Spells per day" once in each battle, and once per day outside of battle. That way she can dish out 4 fireballs in a row if she wants, but no more regardless of how long the fight is. And she can lay out 6 Bull's Strengths during the day, but no more than that, regardless of the recharge time.
ssvegeta555 11-29-04, 02:53 PM	Ah... I see. That could be a problem, my games are about 60-65% battles, while 40-35% social. Well, what if I had the general recharge times for sorcerors the same as the recharge times for wizards,clerics ect. would get in the varient?
Garboshnik 12-06-04, 10:44 AM	I have actually been using the recharge variant for sorcerors only in my game. To be cautious though I have them use the times as given for wizards. I have one sorceror who is very happy with it and I myself think it is pretty balanced. There is no party wizard to compare him to but he compares well to the cleric and druid.