Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slapstick 09-22-06, 10:01 AM	I love archtypes. For example The typical Archwizard with his priceless staff and practicly unlimited controll over arcane magic. However, in Gestalt campaigns these archtypes dissapears (mostly, at least) as you tend to mix classes that doesn't share a common concept. I propose that prestige classes can be used to recreate the archtypes, but I need some help getting it right. Here is my idea: Rewrite prestige classes to 15 levels pre-epic, and make one of the requirements that you continue to advance in your base class that allowed you to take the prestige class. The prestige classes needs to be strong enough to justify dropping an entire class to take it. They should also reinforce the image of the "typical" Wizard / Rogue / Cleric / Fighter etc. I imagine that it would be possible to combine several of the prestige classes that already exist into one, give them a couple of new abilites and call it a day. Balance isn't really a major concern in a Gestalt campaign anyway ;) However it should still be a favorable option to chose not to take a prestige class. Perhaps something along the lines of: Archwizard Combination of Archmage(without the penalties) and Red Wizard of Thay, and add some special abilites to his staff, ie. allow him to customize his staff Warrior Combination of Dwarven Defender (the abilites, not restricted to race), Man at Arms and Weaponmaster I'll leave the subject here and up for discussion, while I'm pondering this over the weekend. Is this a good idea, or totally rubbish? How would the progression in a prestige class be? - Slapstick
Arkan_Shadesfire 09-22-06, 11:04 AM	I'm still waiting to hear back from people about mixing the generic classes from UA with regular ones. But if you think the generic classes are balanced with the standard classes then just go gesalted Wizard/Spellcaster--or you could just go gesalted Wizard/Sorcerer. Either way the staff thing is a matter of roleplaying and player choice. You can use spellstaff and craft feats to invest much of your mage's power in their staff, or go with a completely different approach--it's up to the player. Both buids represent the iconic wizard's mastery of magic pretty well in my opinion. Both have prepared and spontaneous spells at their command, but the Wizard/Sorcerer has better hit points and more spells per day, while the Wizard/Spellcaster has better saves and can learn every spell in the game--even divine spells. This approach might not work as well for the other archetypal classes, but going "double mage" works just fine because the spellcasting ability overlaps. Of course, a prestige class that focused on powering up a wizards staff would be pretty awesome--but you could just make it a normal five or ten level prestige class and gesalt with it as normal after a few levels of Wiz/Sorc or Wiz/Spellcaster.
Millennium 09-22-06, 11:19 AM	I don't know if there's really a need for PrCs to establish this, to be honest. For your archetypal mage, one could easily use a wizard/sorcerer build. Flavor-wise, the character's sorcerer spells are actually powers of his staff, which also explains how he manages the same spell list in two different ways. As he grows more experienced, he learns how to focus power through his staff even more effectively, which is why the staff grows in power, but only when the character uses it. For mages that focus on shapeshifting, wizard/druid also works well. For the archetypal warrior, there's the problem that there are so many different kinds of fighters. A fighter/rogue would make an excellent swashbuckler-type, while fighter/barbarians (even without the ability to rage) can make great tanks, and a fighter/monk is frickin frightening as a ninja-type. Archetypal rogues work much the same way as fighters: there are just so many different ways to do the thing. Rogue/barbarians are good thugs, rogue/monks and rogue/rangers can do the cat-burglar thing, and a rogue/bard is the perfect trickster. Archetypal priests are harder to work with, but so much of the priest's flavor is tied up in his gods anyway that the second class works out as almost anything. Cleric/druid is a natural choice for nature priests, cleric/paladin or cleric/fighter for crusaders, cleric/wizard or cleric/sorcerer for priests of gods of magic, and cleric/rogue (or even cleric/expert) makes a surprisingly good catch-all thanks to the skill list.
Arkan_Shadesfire 09-24-06, 12:11 AM	Also, if it's Staff-Wielding Mage flavor you're after, consider messing with the Spell Scion class. Just change it so that you choose a single magic staff and increase it's abilities, rather than finding a legendary staff who's abilities you unlock by taking Scion levels. Basically you're creating a legendary staff rather than finding one and mastering it. I actually like this idea alot, I'll rework the Spell Scion into a "Staff Master" class and post the results when I'm finished.
Slapstick 09-25-06, 04:32 AM	You all make valid points. I must admit that the blending of different classes do make some great archtypes after all. I was simply thinking that if a person wanted to play a pure fighter, rogue og wizard, there weren't any way to do that. You had to play two classes. However the second class can easily just be a "minor" addition to your "main" class if you so choose. It's all about how you choose to play the classes. And I was mostly missing a typical wizard anyway (as you all probably guessed). The "Staff Master" class seems very interesting. And of course, using sorcerer as a second class with a slightly different twist to the feel of it is always a good way to go. Oh how I do love arcane casters :) - Slapstick