Replacement for XP in magic item crafting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Replacement for XP in magic item crafting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Encard
06-08-07, 10:56 PM I was just wondering how many of you have a working replacement for XP in item crafting. I recently switched to holistic leveling in my game, but now one of the players wants to be an artificer - that means I either need to go back to calculating out XP, or come up with an alternative. Sadly, at the moment I'm a pretty stumped on what that alternative should be. Any suggestions?
bobothechimp
06-09-07, 12:23 AM Money?
JulesCARV
06-09-07, 12:38 AM Well, first, I should note that artificers have a craft reserve that allows them to do a decent amount of free, XP-less crafting each level. Furthermore, at level five (I thinK?) they get retain essence, which allows them to suck the XP out of unwanted magic items into their own craft reserve.

Liquid pain? Distilled joy? Those are BoVD/BoED's alternatives.

Maybe every 500 gp worth of crafting does 1 point of charisma burn, so a full day's worth does 2 charisma burn, effectively forcing the artificer to limit crafting to half of the time, and leaving him rather drained if he crafts intensely during crises?
DarkRhystar
06-09-07, 01:23 AM I was just wondering how many of you have a working replacement for XP in item crafting. I recently switched to holistic leveling in my game, but now one of the players wants to be an artificer - that means I either need to go back to calculating out XP, or come up with an alternative. Sadly, at the moment I'm a pretty stumped on what that alternative should be. Any suggestions?

Give him additional Craft Reserve at every level equal to some fair number or math logic (double his reserve maybe).

Give him the option of being one level behind the group to have triple that (quadruple his reserve) to account for D&D handing more experience to lower level characters.
bahamut920
06-09-07, 02:57 AM Give him additional Craft Reserve at every level equal to some fair number or math logic (double his reserve maybe).

Give him the option of being one level behind the group to have triple that (quadruple his reserve) to account for D&D handing more experience to lower level characters.
That doesn't solve his initial problem of how to convert the XP in the Craft reserve to a system without XP.

My suggestion is: have crafted magic items cost one-half the market price. That keeps PCs from "farming" magic items, because they can only sell for 1/2. Convert the artificer's XP reserve to GP (not sure how much you want to give - standard XP-to-GP ratio is 5:1 - one XP gives 5 GP, but this, depending on the craft reserve totals, might be unbalancing...).
Rhialto
06-09-07, 04:16 AM Each time he gains a level, he gets [N] % of teh mnimum xp requirement of that level as a reserve usable only for crafting.
Werral
06-10-07, 06:39 AM The 2E system had magic item creation as an actual adventure in itself - in fact spellcasters GAINED XP for crafting items.

Basically the player says what they want to make and the PC does research. You then tell them what rare/exotic ingredients and tasks they need to do in order to craft that item using the XP cost as a guide (straightforward for basic potions and such, crazy hard for Rod's of Lordly Might or similar).

They complete the tasks and make the item.

It works well for campaigns where magic items can't be picked up in shops.
Xavon
06-10-07, 01:54 PM I replaced XP cost with exotic materials (ala 2E), and long-term temporary HP lost.
General Felire
06-10-07, 10:51 PM Personally, in the games that I ran I never calculated XP for adventuring and just leveled up my players when I felt they earned it.

Thus I share the pain of not keeping track of XP and needing XP for player crafting.

So when I first saw the class that provided a XP Pool for use only by crafting I was insanely thrilled. Of course the fact that a particular class needed to be taken to get that XP Pool was the the greatest but it did give me a starting point.

What I ended up doing is something very close to what Rhialto said. I made it so that at the point of levelling up a character got a certain percentage of XP useable only for crafting. This XP is automatic and is not affected by anything. I then said that if any player takes a class that provides a special P Pool this XP Pool is above and beyond the normal XP that all characters get. Thus they are better at crafting then normal characters who did not specialize.

Sadly, the numbers that I used have been lost. But I still remember the basic concept. And I hope that this helps.
pippin_nl
06-11-07, 11:59 AM You can also let him create items as he learns them; for instance:

level
1: nothing
2: first potion
3: first wondrous item; second potion
4: homonculus; third potion
5: first armour or weapon; fourth potion
6: fifth potion
7: first wand; second wondrous item; sixth potion
8: seventh potion
9: first rod; second armour or weapon; eighth potion
10: ninth potion
11: second wand; third wondrous item; tenth potion
12: first staff; eleventh potion
13: second rod; third armour or weapon; twelfth potion
14: first ring; thirteenth potion
15: third wand; fourth wondrous item; fourteenth potion
16: first construct etc...

and of course let him make items for his fellows
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-11-07, 09:48 PM As mentioned before, 5 gp per 1 xp. This is what the RPGA uses (you get a 30% discount on items you can craft, do the math). It's what NPCs charge, and you know NPCs always get to rip off the PCs in business transactions, so whether it's too little is not an issue.

Alternately, you can have crafting materials. In my campaign, magical creatures that carry no coins can instead can be harvested (I let players get creative on this) for raw materials. Each species has a few spells (most notably spell-like abilities the creature can use) that its blood, scales, hair, bones, or whatever are attuned to. If those parts are used to craft an item that has one of those spells as a prerequisite, then the crafter can waive the XP cost (rolling on the coins table as appropriate for the CR, at 5 gp = 1 xp). If used in conjunction with the 5 gp = 1 xp rule, you can simply have materials count as raw materials, reducing the cost to craft the item.
Lawkeeper
06-12-07, 05:09 AM I'm on the verge of fully dumping the XP-cost for magic item creation, to replace it by special ingredients for permanent items only, with charged items costing only time and [money]. Exact numbers aren't all fixed yet, but principles are what follows.

In Eberron, it'll have to be dragonshards. If you play in Eberron or your world's magic is otherwise attuned to a specific material (be it crystal, gems, or others), this works particuliarly well if your players can't automatically get their hands on the specific requirement. For example, your ordinary gp-component is to be purchased from ordinary markets, as long as the gp-limit of that market is at least 5% or 10% of the total value of component you need : essentially, you're purchasing a lot of different powders, minerals, pollens, animal parts, etc. So, you can make most of the weak items, permanent or charge, while living and purchasing in a village or small town.

For permanent items however, my method is to make them purchase one of those dragonshard-equivalent which costs 5gp/XP, or 20% of the market value of the item. It's one item, proportionate to the power of the item in order to resist the eldritch energies, so it's an expensive item which needs to be purchased from a big-enough market or can be an adventure in itself if costly enough. That way, if you live in a remote village in a Elminsterly manner, you need to go to a large city or metropolis from time to time to get your hands on the required special component. You could also find a bunch of them as a treasure or receive them as rewards.

If you house-rule that permanent items can only be made with such a special component, you also have a way to determine how many permanent magic items you want in your world, without a necessary relation with the power-level and magic prevalence of your creation. Want a high-level wizard-ruled world with very few magic items besides wands, potions & scrolls ? Find the suitable component, be it a kind of crystal/mineral, blood of dragons or souls trapped in gems (looks at Morrowind). That way, when your players get their hand on one of these components, the act of item creation is itself a big event as they don't have that many occasions to actually craft a permanent item.
DreadArchon
06-12-07, 02:48 PM I let players spend Action Points to gain XP for crafting and casting purposes. My exchange rate is 1 AP -> 1000 XP, but you could adjust that.

This, of course, requires the use of Action Points in your game.
Lawkeeper
06-12-07, 03:04 PM Another possibility is to rule that a creator takes a number of nonlethal damage points equal to, say, the highest level spell required or the item's CL, every day that he passes at the act of creation. Off course, you have to rule that those hit points are using the same rules as the dehydration or forced march damage, to prevent simple CLW spells from removing all penalties.
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-12-07, 08:09 PM I let players spend Action Points to gain XP for crafting and casting purposes. My exchange rate is 1 AP -> 1000 XP, but you could adjust that.

This, of course, requires the use of Action Points in your game.

I think that's waaay too much. Note that that means 1 AP is equivalent to a 25,000 gp item. I would say you could spend an action point to waive the XP cost of a single magic item, that lets it scale with the PC's level and resources.

Another possibility is to rule that a creator takes a number of nonlethal damage points equal to, say, the highest level spell required or the item's CL, every day that he passes at the act of creation. Off course, you have to rule that those hit points are using the same rules as the dehydration or forced march damage, to prevent simple CLW spells from removing all penalties.

Pointless. Nonlethal damage heals with rest at a rate equal to your level per hour, meaning the crafter can spend a single day resting after he's done to compeltely heal it all. All this does is serve to make the Wizard and Sorcerer worse item creators than Clerics and Druids (as they get exhausted faster) and impose an upper limit on the cost of an item you can create (again favoring Clerics and Druids).
Lawkeeper
06-13-07, 06:06 AM I think that's waaay too much. Note that that means 1 AP is equivalent to a 25,000 gp item. I would say you could spend an action point to waive the XP cost of a single magic item, that lets it scale with the PC's level and resources.
Although that's not my idea, so I can't tell what DreadArchon thought, I think he meant that the AP would only lift the XP, not the money. So, it's not a 25.000gp item free, but an item that would only cost

Pointless. Nonlethal damage heals with rest at a rate equal to your level per hour, meaning the crafter can spend a single day resting after he's done to compeltely heal it all. All this does is serve to make the Wizard and Sorcerer worse item creators than Clerics and Druids (as they get exhausted faster) and impose an upper limit on the cost of an item you can create (again favoring Clerics and Druids).
Yup, you need some more restrictions, like ruling that those non-lethal damage can only be regained at a slower rate.
Or make them real damage.

For the limit, I thought more of the process as the creator passes a few or several days doing the crafting, then interrupting the process before reaching 0, then continuing again. But again, it's only slowing them, nothing more.

Another idea : after completing an item, they'd suffer a negative level for a certain period of time, for example one week per CL of the item. This weakens them for a time, so as to represent their exhaustion and physical depletion after the act of creation.
Ertai Planeswalker
06-13-07, 06:22 AM Since all item creation feats have casterlevel prerequisites, you could say that you need 'magical essence' to create magic items. This magic essence replaces Xp for crafting. You could give spellcasters a standard amount, thought that would set back the artificer, so i would not give spellcasters a standard amount each level, but it can be gained by draining essence from other beings. (Anything with a casterlevel has 50 essence per casterlevel, which is 1/25 of the xp required for that level.) Then give each spellcasting class that you want to have acces to item creation the following ability:

Essence Drain: By using his own magic power, the spellcaster can steal some magical essence from other beings. To use this ability, the spellcaster must select a target within 100 Ft. The spellcaster drains 1D12 magical essence per casterlevel. A will save DC 10+half the spellcaster's casterlevel+the spellcaster's charisma modifier halves the amount drained. This ability can be used an amount of times per day equal to 3 + the spellcasters charisma modifier.

Additionally, you could create spells that drain more at once.
DreadArchon
06-13-07, 02:58 PM Although that's not my idea, so I can't tell what DreadArchon thought, I think he meant that the AP would only lift the XP, not the money. So, it's not a 25.000gp item free, but an item that would only cost [gold and time.]
Exactly. Basically, characters have an XP pool, to which they can add by spending Action Points. So a character coud spend 1 AP to cast Limited Wish twice today and once tomorrow, then craft a 100 XP item for only its gold cost next week.
Lawkeeper
06-14-07, 06:57 AM Exactly. Basically, characters have an XP pool, to which they can add by spending Action Points. So a character coud spend 1 AP to cast Limited Wish twice today and once tomorrow, then craft a 100 XP item for only its gold cost next week.
While this seems like a good system for those casters who don't need APs but prefer item creation, I see a problem there : a 1st level PC's AP are worth exactly the same as a 20th level PC's. Gradually, an AP's value relative to what he is capable off will dwindle and decrease, much more than APs being used for d20-boosts (since DCs are sought to be proportional to levels of power).

Perhaps an AP could be worth 100 XP per character level. On the average, the result will be the same, but at each level the reward will be greater.
DreadArchon
06-14-07, 12:17 PM While this seems like a good system for those casters who don't need APs but prefer item creation, I see a problem there : a 1st level PC's AP are worth exactly the same as a 20th level PC's. Gradually, an AP's value relative to what he is capable off will dwindle and decrease, much more than APs being used for d20-boosts (since DCs are sought to be proportional to levels of power).
AP's are useful for emulating feats and recharging class abilities, too. That's nothing to sneeze at, especially with high-level casters who can pop an Action Point to get extra 9th-level spells for the day. Action Point usefulness doesn't really "dwindle and decrease."

Also, keep in mind that you get more AP's at higher levels, too, much like XP.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Encard 06-08-07, 10:56 PM	I was just wondering how many of you have a working replacement for XP in item crafting. I recently switched to holistic leveling in my game, but now one of the players wants to be an artificer - that means I either need to go back to calculating out XP, or come up with an alternative. Sadly, at the moment I'm a pretty stumped on what that alternative should be. Any suggestions?
bobothechimp 06-09-07, 12:23 AM	Money?
JulesCARV 06-09-07, 12:38 AM	Well, first, I should note that artificers have a craft reserve that allows them to do a decent amount of free, XP-less crafting each level. Furthermore, at level five (I thinK?) they get retain essence, which allows them to suck the XP out of unwanted magic items into their own craft reserve. Liquid pain? Distilled joy? Those are BoVD/BoED's alternatives. Maybe every 500 gp worth of crafting does 1 point of charisma burn, so a full day's worth does 2 charisma burn, effectively forcing the artificer to limit crafting to half of the time, and leaving him rather drained if he crafts intensely during crises?
DarkRhystar 06-09-07, 01:23 AM	I was just wondering how many of you have a working replacement for XP in item crafting. I recently switched to holistic leveling in my game, but now one of the players wants to be an artificer - that means I either need to go back to calculating out XP, or come up with an alternative. Sadly, at the moment I'm a pretty stumped on what that alternative should be. Any suggestions? Give him additional Craft Reserve at every level equal to some fair number or math logic (double his reserve maybe). Give him the option of being one level behind the group to have triple that (quadruple his reserve) to account for D&D handing more experience to lower level characters.
bahamut920 06-09-07, 02:57 AM	Give him additional Craft Reserve at every level equal to some fair number or math logic (double his reserve maybe). Give him the option of being one level behind the group to have triple that (quadruple his reserve) to account for D&D handing more experience to lower level characters. That doesn't solve his initial problem of how to convert the XP in the Craft reserve to a system without XP. My suggestion is: have crafted magic items cost one-half the market price. That keeps PCs from "farming" magic items, because they can only sell for 1/2. Convert the artificer's XP reserve to GP (not sure how much you want to give - standard XP-to-GP ratio is 5:1 - one XP gives 5 GP, but this, depending on the craft reserve totals, might be unbalancing...).
Rhialto 06-09-07, 04:16 AM	Each time he gains a level, he gets [N] % of teh mnimum xp requirement of that level as a reserve usable only for crafting.
Werral 06-10-07, 06:39 AM	The 2E system had magic item creation as an actual adventure in itself - in fact spellcasters GAINED XP for crafting items. Basically the player says what they want to make and the PC does research. You then tell them what rare/exotic ingredients and tasks they need to do in order to craft that item using the XP cost as a guide (straightforward for basic potions and such, crazy hard for Rod's of Lordly Might or similar). They complete the tasks and make the item. It works well for campaigns where magic items can't be picked up in shops.
Xavon 06-10-07, 01:54 PM	I replaced XP cost with exotic materials (ala 2E), and long-term temporary HP lost.
General Felire 06-10-07, 10:51 PM	Personally, in the games that I ran I never calculated XP for adventuring and just leveled up my players when I felt they earned it. Thus I share the pain of not keeping track of XP and needing XP for player crafting. So when I first saw the class that provided a XP Pool for use only by crafting I was insanely thrilled. Of course the fact that a particular class needed to be taken to get that XP Pool was the the greatest but it did give me a starting point. What I ended up doing is something very close to what Rhialto said. I made it so that at the point of levelling up a character got a certain percentage of XP useable only for crafting. This XP is automatic and is not affected by anything. I then said that if any player takes a class that provides a special P Pool this XP Pool is above and beyond the normal XP that all characters get. Thus they are better at crafting then normal characters who did not specialize. Sadly, the numbers that I used have been lost. But I still remember the basic concept. And I hope that this helps.
pippin_nl 06-11-07, 11:59 AM	You can also let him create items as he learns them; for instance: level 1: nothing 2: first potion 3: first wondrous item; second potion 4: homonculus; third potion 5: first armour or weapon; fourth potion 6: fifth potion 7: first wand; second wondrous item; sixth potion 8: seventh potion 9: first rod; second armour or weapon; eighth potion 10: ninth potion 11: second wand; third wondrous item; tenth potion 12: first staff; eleventh potion 13: second rod; third armour or weapon; twelfth potion 14: first ring; thirteenth potion 15: third wand; fourth wondrous item; fourteenth potion 16: first construct etc... and of course let him make items for his fellows
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-11-07, 09:48 PM	As mentioned before, 5 gp per 1 xp. This is what the RPGA uses (you get a 30% discount on items you can craft, do the math). It's what NPCs charge, and you know NPCs always get to rip off the PCs in business transactions, so whether it's too little is not an issue. Alternately, you can have crafting materials. In my campaign, magical creatures that carry no coins can instead can be harvested (I let players get creative on this) for raw materials. Each species has a few spells (most notably spell-like abilities the creature can use) that its blood, scales, hair, bones, or whatever are attuned to. If those parts are used to craft an item that has one of those spells as a prerequisite, then the crafter can waive the XP cost (rolling on the coins table as appropriate for the CR, at 5 gp = 1 xp). If used in conjunction with the 5 gp = 1 xp rule, you can simply have materials count as raw materials, reducing the cost to craft the item.
Lawkeeper 06-12-07, 05:09 AM	I'm on the verge of fully dumping the XP-cost for magic item creation, to replace it by special ingredients for permanent items only, with charged items costing only time and [money]. Exact numbers aren't all fixed yet, but principles are what follows. In Eberron, it'll have to be dragonshards. If you play in Eberron or your world's magic is otherwise attuned to a specific material (be it crystal, gems, or others), this works particuliarly well if your players can't automatically get their hands on the specific requirement. For example, your ordinary gp-component is to be purchased from ordinary markets, as long as the gp-limit of that market is at least 5% or 10% of the total value of component you need : essentially, you're purchasing a lot of different powders, minerals, pollens, animal parts, etc. So, you can make most of the weak items, permanent or charge, while living and purchasing in a village or small town. For permanent items however, my method is to make them purchase one of those dragonshard-equivalent which costs 5gp/XP, or 20% of the market value of the item. It's one item, proportionate to the power of the item in order to resist the eldritch energies, so it's an expensive item which needs to be purchased from a big-enough market or can be an adventure in itself if costly enough. That way, if you live in a remote village in a Elminsterly manner, you need to go to a large city or metropolis from time to time to get your hands on the required special component. You could also find a bunch of them as a treasure or receive them as rewards. If you house-rule that permanent items can only be made with such a special component, you also have a way to determine how many permanent magic items you want in your world, without a necessary relation with the power-level and magic prevalence of your creation. Want a high-level wizard-ruled world with very few magic items besides wands, potions & scrolls ? Find the suitable component, be it a kind of crystal/mineral, blood of dragons or souls trapped in gems (looks at Morrowind). That way, when your players get their hand on one of these components, the act of item creation is itself a big event as they don't have that many occasions to actually craft a permanent item.
DreadArchon 06-12-07, 02:48 PM	I let players spend Action Points to gain XP for crafting and casting purposes. My exchange rate is 1 AP -> 1000 XP, but you could adjust that. This, of course, requires the use of Action Points in your game.
Lawkeeper 06-12-07, 03:04 PM	Another possibility is to rule that a creator takes a number of nonlethal damage points equal to, say, the highest level spell required or the item's CL, every day that he passes at the act of creation. Off course, you have to rule that those hit points are using the same rules as the dehydration or forced march damage, to prevent simple CLW spells from removing all penalties.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-12-07, 08:09 PM	I let players spend Action Points to gain XP for crafting and casting purposes. My exchange rate is 1 AP -> 1000 XP, but you could adjust that. This, of course, requires the use of Action Points in your game. I think that's waaay too much. Note that that means 1 AP is equivalent to a 25,000 gp item. I would say you could spend an action point to waive the XP cost of a single magic item, that lets it scale with the PC's level and resources. Another possibility is to rule that a creator takes a number of nonlethal damage points equal to, say, the highest level spell required or the item's CL, every day that he passes at the act of creation. Off course, you have to rule that those hit points are using the same rules as the dehydration or forced march damage, to prevent simple CLW spells from removing all penalties. Pointless. Nonlethal damage heals with rest at a rate equal to your level per hour, meaning the crafter can spend a single day resting after he's done to compeltely heal it all. All this does is serve to make the Wizard and Sorcerer worse item creators than Clerics and Druids (as they get exhausted faster) and impose an upper limit on the cost of an item you can create (again favoring Clerics and Druids).
Lawkeeper 06-13-07, 06:06 AM	I think that's waaay too much. Note that that means 1 AP is equivalent to a 25,000 gp item. I would say you could spend an action point to waive the XP cost of a single magic item, that lets it scale with the PC's level and resources. Although that's not my idea, so I can't tell what DreadArchon thought, I think he meant that the AP would only lift the XP, not the money. So, it's not a 25.000gp item free, but an item that would only cost Pointless. Nonlethal damage heals with rest at a rate equal to your level per hour, meaning the crafter can spend a single day resting after he's done to compeltely heal it all. All this does is serve to make the Wizard and Sorcerer worse item creators than Clerics and Druids (as they get exhausted faster) and impose an upper limit on the cost of an item you can create (again favoring Clerics and Druids). Yup, you need some more restrictions, like ruling that those non-lethal damage can only be regained at a slower rate. Or make them real damage. For the limit, I thought more of the process as the creator passes a few or several days doing the crafting, then interrupting the process before reaching 0, then continuing again. But again, it's only slowing them, nothing more. Another idea : after completing an item, they'd suffer a negative level for a certain period of time, for example one week per CL of the item. This weakens them for a time, so as to represent their exhaustion and physical depletion after the act of creation.
Ertai Planeswalker 06-13-07, 06:22 AM	Since all item creation feats have casterlevel prerequisites, you could say that you need 'magical essence' to create magic items. This magic essence replaces Xp for crafting. You could give spellcasters a standard amount, thought that would set back the artificer, so i would not give spellcasters a standard amount each level, but it can be gained by draining essence from other beings. (Anything with a casterlevel has 50 essence per casterlevel, which is 1/25 of the xp required for that level.) Then give each spellcasting class that you want to have acces to item creation the following ability: Essence Drain: By using his own magic power, the spellcaster can steal some magical essence from other beings. To use this ability, the spellcaster must select a target within 100 Ft. The spellcaster drains 1D12 magical essence per casterlevel. A will save DC 10+half the spellcaster's casterlevel+the spellcaster's charisma modifier halves the amount drained. This ability can be used an amount of times per day equal to 3 + the spellcasters charisma modifier. Additionally, you could create spells that drain more at once.
DreadArchon 06-13-07, 02:58 PM	Although that's not my idea, so I can't tell what DreadArchon thought, I think he meant that the AP would only lift the XP, not the money. So, it's not a 25.000gp item free, but an item that would only cost [gold and time.] Exactly. Basically, characters have an XP pool, to which they can add by spending Action Points. So a character coud spend 1 AP to cast Limited Wish twice today and once tomorrow, then craft a 100 XP item for only its gold cost next week.
Lawkeeper 06-14-07, 06:57 AM	Exactly. Basically, characters have an XP pool, to which they can add by spending Action Points. So a character coud spend 1 AP to cast Limited Wish twice today and once tomorrow, then craft a 100 XP item for only its gold cost next week. While this seems like a good system for those casters who don't need APs but prefer item creation, I see a problem there : a 1st level PC's AP are worth exactly the same as a 20th level PC's. Gradually, an AP's value relative to what he is capable off will dwindle and decrease, much more than APs being used for d20-boosts (since DCs are sought to be proportional to levels of power). Perhaps an AP could be worth 100 XP per character level. On the average, the result will be the same, but at each level the reward will be greater.
DreadArchon 06-14-07, 12:17 PM	While this seems like a good system for those casters who don't need APs but prefer item creation, I see a problem there : a 1st level PC's AP are worth exactly the same as a 20th level PC's. Gradually, an AP's value relative to what he is capable off will dwindle and decrease, much more than APs being used for d20-boosts (since DCs are sought to be proportional to levels of power). AP's are useful for emulating feats and recharging class abilities, too. That's nothing to sneeze at, especially with high-level casters who can pop an Action Point to get extra 9th-level spells for the day. Action Point usefulness doesn't really "dwindle and decrease." Also, keep in mind that you get more AP's at higher levels, too, much like XP.