Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NecroBobb 08-07-07, 05:10 PM	I am considering a system where instead of using saving throws to resist spells, all characters have spell resistance. In this system, spells either require an attack roll (Targeting AC), or a Caster Level Check (Targeting Spell Resistance). Spells that previously dealt half damage on saves, would deal half damage if they failed to overcome SR. All characters would begin with SR 10. This is the natural Spell Resistance a creature has. A character gains a bonus to their spell resistance from their armor. Light Armor provides +0, Medium +1, Heavy +2 SR. Mithral and Adamanine provide an additional +1 SR, and Cold Iron provides an additional +2. Also, Every +1 bonus to armor increases SR by 1. Thus, +3 Adamantine Plate Mail would provide a +6 Spell Resistance Bonus. Any Class Ability that grants a bonus to AC also grants an eqivialent bonus to SR. In addition, effects that previously provided bonuses against specific schools of magic or types of spells to saving throws, such as racial bonuses, provide the same bonus to SR against those effects. This system is not nearly perfect. Any suggestions or fixes would be helpful.
Tequila_Sunrise 08-07-07, 11:48 PM	I am considering a system where instead of using saving throws to resist spells, all characters have spell resistance. I think to help you, it would help us to know why you want to replace saves with SR.
runestar 08-08-07, 12:11 AM	I don't understand how wearing armour would make you more resistant to a charm person spell...:confused:
NecroBobb 08-08-07, 12:47 PM	I think to help you, it would help us to know why you want to replace saves with SR. I have players complain (usually those playing fighters) about how unfair their low will saves are, and I have to agree (They also complain about poor reflexes, but not nearly as much). I don't see a reason why a veteran swordsman would have less will power than a mage. Also, I don't like my spellcasters being able to target the weakest saves to overcome my NPCs. It seems to reek of metagaming for a player to target will power everytime they face a heavily armored foe. I don't understand how wearing armour would make you more resistant to a charm person spell... Honestly, right now I am more concerned with mechanical aspects than justifications. I keep running into so many problems trying to get this to work right. However; I have already thought of my argument for this. In my campaign, all metals interfere with magical energies, both arcane and divine, hence the spell failure chances when wearing the armor, as well as the extra protection they grant against spells. Now, some of my major problems right now include light armored characters at low levels, such as rogues, who are going to be rather vulnerable to spells. I also am having trouble estimating the average SR a caster should face at each level, which is making it difficult to balance the system.
Jackmojo 08-08-07, 12:58 PM	Perhaps an easier answer would be to just allow characters to add their enhancement bonus to armour as a bonus to saves vs spells. Also for fighters specifically, there is an alternate class feature in one of the new Completes (mage or champion I think) that allows them to add their BAB to their Will save or somesuch (i.e. they focus their training on defending their brains and aren't trying as hard to hit things that round). Jack
NecroBobb 08-08-07, 01:02 PM	*slaps forehead* Thanks. I always over-complicate everything.
Krusk 08-08-07, 02:00 PM	If you still want to do this, just do 10 +what their save bonus would be gives them a number. It dosn't solve your fighters complain though, suggest he buy a vestiment/cloak of resistance. Very cheap way to boost saves by up to 5 each. Also MIC has armor augmentations that will add to whatever save is needed. With a minor ammount of gold he can have some real good saves. Fighter level 1- Fort-10+2+Con+Misc=~14 Ref-10+0+dex+misc=~11 Will- 10+0+wis+misc =~ 11 The caster now rolls SR as normal. Anything that adds to their save DC now adds to their caster level for this check. Spell focus (necro) now gives +1CL when casting a necromancy spell. If the spell normally is reflex save for half, now they roll vs reflex SR. Races other things that grant SR now grant a secondary SR. So the caster needs to roll once vs one SR and a second time VS the other SR. a side note- this Will really help casters at low levels where they suck, and will help tone them down at high levels where they destroy.
Movanic 08-08-07, 05:30 PM	I second Krusk. Making this system work would also give more "perceived control" to casters - which is the whole point of having the players roll dice in the first place! This solves the "I cast xyz. I'm done." non-evocation casters sometimes have to deal with. Not all that exciting to play....
Krusk 08-08-07, 07:12 PM	Not to totally steal your thread but my idea got me all intrigued, and so im going to mess with it some and see which i like better, standard or the other.
Jackmojo 08-09-07, 01:41 PM	I second Krusk. Making this system work would also give more "perceived control" to casters - which is the whole point of having the players roll dice in the first place! This solves the "I cast xyz. I'm done." non-evocation casters sometimes have to deal with. Not all that exciting to play.... Course it causes the reverse problem for the players when they're the targets of those spells...no saves, just them DM saying you take X damage/effect. Personally I like saving throws, gives players a chance to have a last go at protecting their PC. If you like this for those reasons though, definetly have a look at the Player's Roll All the Dice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm) from the SRD/Unearthed Aracana. Jack