Replacing Trapfinding with Crippling Strike? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Replacing Trapfinding with Crippling Strike? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arthur_Pendragon
12-04-04, 08:48 PM First up, I'll explain I'm both my groups DM and I'm running a character (as right now it is only myself and my wife playing and we each have one character, in part because I like exploring the settings and in part because my wife doesn't like solo adventures).

We are both playing gestalt classes because of how small our "adventuring party" will be. For reference the campaign is an evil (vile) campaign set in a world somewhat like Victorian England (minus guns). My wife's character is playing a Fighter/Rogue gestalt, using the character concept of a strong willed female noble who has pursued rather unlady like training (training in fencing) and even risked her life by breaking into other noble's homes and stealing from them just so she can feel the thrill of the risk. This boredom and need for greater thrill rises from the fact that she has a Major vampire bloodline (which had lain dormant in everyone else in her family for a long time) which has "activated" in her resulting in her having extremely pale white skin (and because of her strange appearance her parents have judged her unmarriageable and has mostly cloistered her away. That is why she craves outside life and adventures). (Neither her character nor her character's parents realize it has anything vampires or bloodlines, rather they just think she has some strange disorder).

My own character is the one who is bringing up the issue here. I'm playing a Wizard (Necromancer)/Rogue. I focused first on the Wizard (Necromancer) aspect imagining him as a intellectual and doctor concealing his darker occult studies in magic. Then I needed to choose the other class for my gestalt, and struggled through various possible classes. Finally I chose rogue as I felt I could spend the rogue copious skill ranks on various knowledge's (playing up his position as an intellectual, scholar, doctor, and student of the occult), and think of the sneak attack damage as playing off his knowledge of human anatomy (in other words, his medical training and experince is what allows him to strike in vital places that cause more damage, as opposed to the idea of a rogue just knowing how to suprise and backstab somebody).

Then I came to my real problem. The Trapfinding ability gained at first level. I felt that totally clashed with my idea of a scholar/necromancer, that he would know how to find traps. :( I knew I wasn't going to take search or disable device, as I was not interpreting the rogue levels as representing your classic theif, and so trapfinding didn't fit either and I could see no reason why my character would have that ability.

So I kept searching for an ability that seemed appropriate that could replace the Trapfidning ability. Finally I noticed the rogue's special ability Crippling Strike, and felt that fit well with knowledge of anatomy and how I am interpreting the Sneak Attack ability.

Thus I was thinking about replacing the rogue's trapfinding with the rogue's crippling strike for the wizard (necromancer)/rogue. I spoke with my wife (which constiutes pretty much the entire group) and she agreed it sounded like it work well. And I'm not aiming to use this to make a character more uber, but rather to fit with the character concept.

But I thought I'd get some feedback from the messageboard community as to the question if that is too powerful or not?
He Who Shall Not Be Named
12-04-04, 09:45 PM :whatsthis

First, let me just say wow, that is an awesome campaign setting. :thumbsup:

Second, I don't think that is too overpowered. It's a little unbalanced, but nothing a campaign can't handle, and you are genuinely doing it for your storyline. (Unlike my group. Please, tell them that storylines are poor covers for minmaxed characters! :rolleyes: )

However, I believe (the PHB is not right in front of me) that rogues get a bonus save vs traps as they go on as well. You may want to take that out too, if it's there...

Just my two cents...
Arthur_Pendragon
12-04-04, 10:36 PM I had thought out removing those abilities as well, they are the "Trap Sense" ability, increasing as you go up in level and grant a bonus to AC vs traps that use attack rolls and a bonus to reflex saves to traps like a fireball trap (no attack roll, but allows save).

I could drop them . . . though part of my gut reaction is to figure out what to replace them with. :(

I could just drop them all together and not get anything in return. . . :confused:

The other thing to keep in mind on this is the game is somewhat high powered (not high powered in items) in the sense that I'm giving all players what I call a "Effective character level penalty buffer zone". In other words, with my wife's chacter who is taking the Major vampire bloodline would normally have to pay 3 levels for it, instead doesn't have to pay those 3 levels. Likewise, later at higher levels when my character becomes a lich he doesn't have to pay the four levels he would normally. And in the same sense, if another player joined our group and he wanted to play a character whose race would normally have a LA +4 he wouldn't have to pay that penalty.

In contrast however, magical items aren't that common. Most items that get created are pretty baubbles for rich nobles (like a locket with an realistic looking illusion of a loved one, or a ring that enhances someone's charisma). Some magical items are a bit more powerful (a few noble's will fork over the gold to get a wizard to make them a +1 flaming rapier). But many magical items created not by wizard's crafting them, but by powerful emotional energy. Such as a locket that grants +1 AC because it was given as a given to a soldier from his lover who deeply wanted him to return home safely and her love ultimately was so strong that it infused the locket with a defensive bonus. Such items could also work the other way, such as lets say in the above example, the girl discovered her lover was cheating on her, then her anger over it might cause the locket to become cursed granting a -1 AC penalty.
evangelion1010
12-08-04, 01:02 AM since its just you two, it fits the background, you agree its fair...go nuts.

I like the emotional attachment items (unique) and the LA thing (i like powerful creatures).

Sounds like a great setting, have fun!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arthur_Pendragon 12-04-04, 08:48 PM	First up, I'll explain I'm both my groups DM and I'm running a character (as right now it is only myself and my wife playing and we each have one character, in part because I like exploring the settings and in part because my wife doesn't like solo adventures). We are both playing gestalt classes because of how small our "adventuring party" will be. For reference the campaign is an evil (vile) campaign set in a world somewhat like Victorian England (minus guns). My wife's character is playing a Fighter/Rogue gestalt, using the character concept of a strong willed female noble who has pursued rather unlady like training (training in fencing) and even risked her life by breaking into other noble's homes and stealing from them just so she can feel the thrill of the risk. This boredom and need for greater thrill rises from the fact that she has a Major vampire bloodline (which had lain dormant in everyone else in her family for a long time) which has "activated" in her resulting in her having extremely pale white skin (and because of her strange appearance her parents have judged her unmarriageable and has mostly cloistered her away. That is why she craves outside life and adventures). (Neither her character nor her character's parents realize it has anything vampires or bloodlines, rather they just think she has some strange disorder). My own character is the one who is bringing up the issue here. I'm playing a Wizard (Necromancer)/Rogue. I focused first on the Wizard (Necromancer) aspect imagining him as a intellectual and doctor concealing his darker occult studies in magic. Then I needed to choose the other class for my gestalt, and struggled through various possible classes. Finally I chose rogue as I felt I could spend the rogue copious skill ranks on various knowledge's (playing up his position as an intellectual, scholar, doctor, and student of the occult), and think of the sneak attack damage as playing off his knowledge of human anatomy (in other words, his medical training and experince is what allows him to strike in vital places that cause more damage, as opposed to the idea of a rogue just knowing how to suprise and backstab somebody). Then I came to my real problem. The Trapfinding ability gained at first level. I felt that totally clashed with my idea of a scholar/necromancer, that he would know how to find traps. :( I knew I wasn't going to take search or disable device, as I was not interpreting the rogue levels as representing your classic theif, and so trapfinding didn't fit either and I could see no reason why my character would have that ability. So I kept searching for an ability that seemed appropriate that could replace the Trapfidning ability. Finally I noticed the rogue's special ability Crippling Strike, and felt that fit well with knowledge of anatomy and how I am interpreting the Sneak Attack ability. Thus I was thinking about replacing the rogue's trapfinding with the rogue's crippling strike for the wizard (necromancer)/rogue. I spoke with my wife (which constiutes pretty much the entire group) and she agreed it sounded like it work well. And I'm not aiming to use this to make a character more uber, but rather to fit with the character concept. But I thought I'd get some feedback from the messageboard community as to the question if that is too powerful or not?
He Who Shall Not Be Named 12-04-04, 09:45 PM	:whatsthis First, let me just say wow, that is an awesome campaign setting. :thumbsup: Second, I don't think that is too overpowered. It's a little unbalanced, but nothing a campaign can't handle, and you are genuinely doing it for your storyline. (Unlike my group. Please, tell them that storylines are poor covers for minmaxed characters! :rolleyes: ) However, I believe (the PHB is not right in front of me) that rogues get a bonus save vs traps as they go on as well. You may want to take that out too, if it's there... Just my two cents...
Arthur_Pendragon 12-04-04, 10:36 PM	I had thought out removing those abilities as well, they are the "Trap Sense" ability, increasing as you go up in level and grant a bonus to AC vs traps that use attack rolls and a bonus to reflex saves to traps like a fireball trap (no attack roll, but allows save). I could drop them . . . though part of my gut reaction is to figure out what to replace them with. :( I could just drop them all together and not get anything in return. . . :confused: The other thing to keep in mind on this is the game is somewhat high powered (not high powered in items) in the sense that I'm giving all players what I call a "Effective character level penalty buffer zone". In other words, with my wife's chacter who is taking the Major vampire bloodline would normally have to pay 3 levels for it, instead doesn't have to pay those 3 levels. Likewise, later at higher levels when my character becomes a lich he doesn't have to pay the four levels he would normally. And in the same sense, if another player joined our group and he wanted to play a character whose race would normally have a LA +4 he wouldn't have to pay that penalty. In contrast however, magical items aren't that common. Most items that get created are pretty baubbles for rich nobles (like a locket with an realistic looking illusion of a loved one, or a ring that enhances someone's charisma). Some magical items are a bit more powerful (a few noble's will fork over the gold to get a wizard to make them a +1 flaming rapier). But many magical items created not by wizard's crafting them, but by powerful emotional energy. Such as a locket that grants +1 AC because it was given as a given to a soldier from his lover who deeply wanted him to return home safely and her love ultimately was so strong that it infused the locket with a defensive bonus. Such items could also work the other way, such as lets say in the above example, the girl discovered her lover was cheating on her, then her anger over it might cause the locket to become cursed granting a -1 AC penalty.
evangelion1010 12-08-04, 01:02 AM	since its just you two, it fits the background, you agree its fair...go nuts. I like the emotional attachment items (unique) and the LA thing (i like powerful creatures). Sounds like a great setting, have fun!