Restricted Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Restricted Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Quoth_theRaven
07-05-06, 10:19 PM One of the more hotly debated topics on the boards is that between high- and low-magic settings. Without going into the reasons for the debates (there's plenty of it around to peruse), let's try something a little different.

How does one keep the current magic level in his campaign, but make it more difficult to obtain and practice without making it the stuff of legend? Since the issue stems primarily from accessibility, that shall be the salient point of this post.

Spellcasting

There are three basic classifications of magic: personal, focused, and ritualistic.

Personal magic is that which the caster may use without aid of some sort, such as material components, or focus items. Generally, spells of levels 0-3 fall into this category, though some of higher level may as well, and some of these levels may fall into focused or possibly ritualistic magic.

Focused magic relies on something with which to focus the power, as the caster lacks the necessary physical makeup to handle the magic. Such items can be the stereotypical staff, a broach, or holy symbol. Most spells of levels 4-6 fall into this category, though some of higher or lower may also fit, and some of these levels may fall into personal or ritual magic.

Ritual magic relies upon the cooperation of fellow spellcasters (current rule of thumb is a number of assistant casters equal in class level to twice the level of spell to be cast). While the primary caster must be in possession of his focus, the others need not unless they have made one themselves. The time to cast ritual magic is (as a basic rule of thumb) one time category longer than stated, so 1 standard action becomes 1 round, 1 round becomes 1 minute, etc. Ritual magic generally encompasses spells of levels 7-9, but may draw from other levels as well.

Focus Items

When a spellcaster reaches a class level which would normally grant access to 4th level spells, he must construct, or have constructed, a unique item to focus the energies of higher magic. It must be a masterwork quality item, and must undergo a purification over a 3 day period. Details of purification should be worked out by player and DM on an individual basis, but it is suggested that the method of purification befit the character/class. A simple immersion in holy water might do for an item belonging to a cleric of Hieroneous, for example, or being hung exposed to the South Wind for a sorcerer who has a penchant for air-based magic. The item can, of course, be enchanted at any time.

This focus item takes the place of material components and standard focus items. Without the item, the caster cannot use spells from the focused or ritual classifications, though he can be a participant in a ritual spell, though effective class level is halved.

Ritual Magic

When a spellcaster reaches a level which would normally allow him to cast 7th level spells, he may be the primary caster in ritual magic. Such magic requires the combined efforts of at least two casters. In addition to the primary caster, the assistants requires must possess caster levels equal to twice the spell level being cast. Assistants need not know the spell being cast, as they are merely lending their ability to the primary caster. However, those using a different source of magic power (i.e. arcane, as opposed to divine magic) only count half their levels (round up) towards the total (optionally, those of a different class, wizards, clerics, sorcerers, etc., contribute half their class levels rather than those of a differing magic type).

How this affects Magic Items

Magical items such as potions and scrolls cannot contain spells of other than the personal classification. Charged items such as rods, wands, and staves may contain personal and focused magic spells. These items should be masterwork, as per normal rules, as such an item is required for the use of focused magic. Any item bearing a ritual spell should not only be masterwork, but should be usable only once (optionally limited to perhaps 3-5 uses, so a ring of 3 wishes is possible). Items with ritual spells can be used as per normal rules, no 'casting time' change is required, nor is there the need for assistants when using such an item. These things are only required when the item is constructed.

How this affects Creatures with Spell-like Abilities (including PCs)

Spell-like abilities are special gifts, working like spells, but the creature's very nature allows it to use the power with greater efficiency than ordinary spellcasting, so it is possible to use spell-like abilities duplicating focused magic without a focus item. Any creature with an ability duplicating a ritual magic spell must either possess a focus item, or must use a ritual (which does not require assistants).

In conclusion, though I'm sure there are things not covered or that need to be tweaked, this system should give the campaign a more low-magic feel, without removing the spellcaster as a viable option at higher levels. It only requires some hoops to jump through, and a little help from friends. Note that none of this has been playtested. If anyone uses this, let us know how things went.

Just tossing this out for the idea value. Just which spells would be considered of the three classifications I leave to those intrepid souls who pick up on the idea.
SilvercatMoonpaw
07-06-06, 07:12 AM I'm not sure how much I can help you deal with the system you've come up with. Focus magic doesn't sound like it's any hardship, unless you plan on having enemies constantly try to take the spellcaster's staff away. Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved has a staff-wielding spellcasting class similar to what you are suggesting, except they need the staff to cast all their spells, but they can still cast without it just takes twice as many spellslots and twice as long. With your system the spellcasters either have the capacity, which is just like the core rules, or they don't and your game balance falls to how often you can impose that condition. You're setting yourself up as the sole arbiter of high magic power, and I think what you want is a system of rules that you can point to.

Check out my "Not low, just not flashy magic" thread on the Campaign Builder forum. I'm trying to make a setting where magic is common, but is of little use to your average D&D player. I do this in three ways:
1: Slow progression of spell levels. The most powerful core caster only get 7th level spells at 19th character level.
2: Eliminate "problematic" spells. Toss out damaging spells and others that make casters so much better than skill-users.
3: Create prestige classes with limited access to the problem spells.
Thiez
07-06-06, 08:41 AM You're ruining all the level 7+ combat spells.
Quoth_theRaven
07-06-06, 10:53 PM You're ruining all the level 7+ combat spells.

Keep in mind, that the levels given are general guidelines, and not absolutes, as is stated. For example, I would have to consider raise dead (a 5th level spell) as ritual, while power word kill (9th level) would be focused. Purely a matter of DMs judgement which spells he would prefer to classify as what for a given campaign (which would happen even if I were to list all the spells anyway). The levels are for a general measure of power for the classification only, where most should fall.

Focus magic doesn't sound like it's any hardship, unless you plan on having enemies constantly try to take the spellcaster's staff away.

It's not meant to be a great hardship. Default rule spells have many with material components, and arcane and divine focuses which must be present for the use of the spell. In the case of material components, the rule tends to be ignored unless a component is unusual (or very costly). This would not change things much (except maybe ease bookkeeping), but you do have an interesting point about the removal of the Focus. My guess is that it would become more of a tactical move under this system than normal (though why players don't try filching a focus now I cannot guess... okay, clerics have heavy armor and carry big sticks :D ). I'm thinking a focus item should have greater hardness/hp than a normal item (for things like sunder attacks), and certainly any spellcaster worth his staff (or whatever) would take means to protect it magically or otherwise.

Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved has a staff-wielding spellcasting class similar to what you are suggesting, except they need the staff to cast all their spells, but they can still cast without it just takes twice as many spellslots and twice as long.

Hmmm... don't have any of Monte's stuff. Thanks for the explanation of it. I don't like the idea of having a spellcaster lose all ability for want of a Focus, just higher magics. Allowing the use of a focused spell without a Focus for twice the spell slots and twice the time seems a reasonable enough idea. For ritual magic, I would still insist on the primary caster possessing his Focus, but the other participants need not be (their contribution is just lessened).

Anyhoo, unlike your system (which I am still perusing) which is one of those '80% complete idea, just needs tweaking' deals, this is more if a '20% complete idea, is it really workable' condition. I think you've brought it up a few % points. :)

Oh, and as far as the ritual magic is concerned, I wanted to make something that represented how much effort should go into power of 'earth-shattering' magnitude (in some cases, literally). Need the dragon slain? I didn't want an Elminster-type just snapping his fingers and instant BBQ ribs for an entire city. It should take some real effort. With this, Elminster may be able to snap his fingers still, but he must either have assistants nearby and take a little time, or be in possession of a one(?) shot device when he goes snapperoo.
Thelon Fairblade
07-07-06, 11:52 AM Elminster would be needing 9 levels of assistants to cast his snaperoo spells, if I read the rules right. so nothing more than a wimpy cohort. And his "1 standard action" spells become "1 full round" spells. Not much of a downgrade.

I was thinking that the speed decrease of 1 step would apply to the Focus spells, and a decrease of 2 or 3 steps even for the ritual spells.

For example, Earthquake (8th level ritual) might be a 10 minute spell to cast, while Teleport (5th level focus) would be 1 full round.

I like the base concept, of course, but I think it needs a little more thought on the goal/result of the mechanics, so the mechanics themselves can be fully planned. For example, should Identify be a Ritual spell or just a really long personal spell? How do you want this paradigm change to affect combat spells, versus out-of-combat spells?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quoth_theRaven 07-05-06, 10:19 PM	One of the more hotly debated topics on the boards is that between high- and low-magic settings. Without going into the reasons for the debates (there's plenty of it around to peruse), let's try something a little different. How does one keep the current magic level in his campaign, but make it more difficult to obtain and practice without making it the stuff of legend? Since the issue stems primarily from accessibility, that shall be the salient point of this post. Spellcasting There are three basic classifications of magic: personal, focused, and ritualistic. Personal magic is that which the caster may use without aid of some sort, such as material components, or focus items. Generally, spells of levels 0-3 fall into this category, though some of higher level may as well, and some of these levels may fall into focused or possibly ritualistic magic. Focused magic relies on something with which to focus the power, as the caster lacks the necessary physical makeup to handle the magic. Such items can be the stereotypical staff, a broach, or holy symbol. Most spells of levels 4-6 fall into this category, though some of higher or lower may also fit, and some of these levels may fall into personal or ritual magic. Ritual magic relies upon the cooperation of fellow spellcasters (current rule of thumb is a number of assistant casters equal in class level to twice the level of spell to be cast). While the primary caster must be in possession of his focus, the others need not unless they have made one themselves. The time to cast ritual magic is (as a basic rule of thumb) one time category longer than stated, so 1 standard action becomes 1 round, 1 round becomes 1 minute, etc. Ritual magic generally encompasses spells of levels 7-9, but may draw from other levels as well. Focus Items When a spellcaster reaches a class level which would normally grant access to 4th level spells, he must construct, or have constructed, a unique item to focus the energies of higher magic. It must be a masterwork quality item, and must undergo a purification over a 3 day period. Details of purification should be worked out by player and DM on an individual basis, but it is suggested that the method of purification befit the character/class. A simple immersion in holy water might do for an item belonging to a cleric of Hieroneous, for example, or being hung exposed to the South Wind for a sorcerer who has a penchant for air-based magic. The item can, of course, be enchanted at any time. This focus item takes the place of material components and standard focus items. Without the item, the caster cannot use spells from the focused or ritual classifications, though he can be a participant in a ritual spell, though effective class level is halved. Ritual Magic When a spellcaster reaches a level which would normally allow him to cast 7th level spells, he may be the primary caster in ritual magic. Such magic requires the combined efforts of at least two casters. In addition to the primary caster, the assistants requires must possess caster levels equal to twice the spell level being cast. Assistants need not know the spell being cast, as they are merely lending their ability to the primary caster. However, those using a different source of magic power (i.e. arcane, as opposed to divine magic) only count half their levels (round up) towards the total (optionally, those of a different class, wizards, clerics, sorcerers, etc., contribute half their class levels rather than those of a differing magic type). How this affects Magic Items Magical items such as potions and scrolls cannot contain spells of other than the personal classification. Charged items such as rods, wands, and staves may contain personal and focused magic spells. These items should be masterwork, as per normal rules, as such an item is required for the use of focused magic. Any item bearing a ritual spell should not only be masterwork, but should be usable only once (optionally limited to perhaps 3-5 uses, so a ring of 3 wishes is possible). Items with ritual spells can be used as per normal rules, no 'casting time' change is required, nor is there the need for assistants when using such an item. These things are only required when the item is constructed. How this affects Creatures with Spell-like Abilities (including PCs) Spell-like abilities are special gifts, working like spells, but the creature's very nature allows it to use the power with greater efficiency than ordinary spellcasting, so it is possible to use spell-like abilities duplicating focused magic without a focus item. Any creature with an ability duplicating a ritual magic spell must either possess a focus item, or must use a ritual (which does not require assistants). In conclusion, though I'm sure there are things not covered or that need to be tweaked, this system should give the campaign a more low-magic feel, without removing the spellcaster as a viable option at higher levels. It only requires some hoops to jump through, and a little help from friends. Note that none of this has been playtested. If anyone uses this, let us know how things went. Just tossing this out for the idea value. Just which spells would be considered of the three classifications I leave to those intrepid souls who pick up on the idea.
SilvercatMoonpaw 07-06-06, 07:12 AM	I'm not sure how much I can help you deal with the system you've come up with. Focus magic doesn't sound like it's any hardship, unless you plan on having enemies constantly try to take the spellcaster's staff away. Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved has a staff-wielding spellcasting class similar to what you are suggesting, except they need the staff to cast all their spells, but they can still cast without it just takes twice as many spellslots and twice as long. With your system the spellcasters either have the capacity, which is just like the core rules, or they don't and your game balance falls to how often you can impose that condition. You're setting yourself up as the sole arbiter of high magic power, and I think what you want is a system of rules that you can point to. Check out my "Not low, just not flashy magic" thread on the Campaign Builder forum. I'm trying to make a setting where magic is common, but is of little use to your average D&D player. I do this in three ways: 1: Slow progression of spell levels. The most powerful core caster only get 7th level spells at 19th character level. 2: Eliminate "problematic" spells. Toss out damaging spells and others that make casters so much better than skill-users. 3: Create prestige classes with limited access to the problem spells.
Thiez 07-06-06, 08:41 AM	You're ruining all the level 7+ combat spells.
Quoth_theRaven 07-06-06, 10:53 PM	You're ruining all the level 7+ combat spells. Keep in mind, that the levels given are general guidelines, and not absolutes, as is stated. For example, I would have to consider raise dead (a 5th level spell) as ritual, while power word kill (9th level) would be focused. Purely a matter of DMs judgement which spells he would prefer to classify as what for a given campaign (which would happen even if I were to list all the spells anyway). The levels are for a general measure of power for the classification only, where most should fall. Focus magic doesn't sound like it's any hardship, unless you plan on having enemies constantly try to take the spellcaster's staff away. It's not meant to be a great hardship. Default rule spells have many with material components, and arcane and divine focuses which must be present for the use of the spell. In the case of material components, the rule tends to be ignored unless a component is unusual (or very costly). This would not change things much (except maybe ease bookkeeping), but you do have an interesting point about the removal of the Focus. My guess is that it would become more of a tactical move under this system than normal (though why players don't try filching a focus now I cannot guess... okay, clerics have heavy armor and carry big sticks :D ). I'm thinking a focus item should have greater hardness/hp than a normal item (for things like sunder attacks), and certainly any spellcaster worth his staff (or whatever) would take means to protect it magically or otherwise. Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved has a staff-wielding spellcasting class similar to what you are suggesting, except they need the staff to cast all their spells, but they can still cast without it just takes twice as many spellslots and twice as long. Hmmm... don't have any of Monte's stuff. Thanks for the explanation of it. I don't like the idea of having a spellcaster lose all ability for want of a Focus, just higher magics. Allowing the use of a focused spell without a Focus for twice the spell slots and twice the time seems a reasonable enough idea. For ritual magic, I would still insist on the primary caster possessing his Focus, but the other participants need not be (their contribution is just lessened). Anyhoo, unlike your system (which I am still perusing) which is one of those '80% complete idea, just needs tweaking' deals, this is more if a '20% complete idea, is it really workable' condition. I think you've brought it up a few % points. :) Oh, and as far as the ritual magic is concerned, I wanted to make something that represented how much effort should go into power of 'earth-shattering' magnitude (in some cases, literally). Need the dragon slain? I didn't want an Elminster-type just snapping his fingers and instant BBQ ribs for an entire city. It should take some real effort. With this, Elminster may be able to snap his fingers still, but he must either have assistants nearby and take a little time, or be in possession of a one(?) shot device when he goes snapperoo.
Thelon Fairblade 07-07-06, 11:52 AM	Elminster would be needing 9 levels of assistants to cast his snaperoo spells, if I read the rules right. so nothing more than a wimpy cohort. And his "1 standard action" spells become "1 full round" spells. Not much of a downgrade. I was thinking that the speed decrease of 1 step would apply to the Focus spells, and a decrease of 2 or 3 steps even for the ritual spells. For example, Earthquake (8th level ritual) might be a 10 minute spell to cast, while Teleport (5th level focus) would be 1 full round. I like the base concept, of course, but I think it needs a little more thought on the goal/result of the mechanics, so the mechanics themselves can be fully planned. For example, should Identify be a Ritual spell or just a really long personal spell? How do you want this paradigm change to affect combat spells, versus out-of-combat spells?