Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AbuDhabi 12-27-05, 02:08 PM	Right. The situation is this: I'm playing in a fun IRC-based game, but the DM thinks that Wizards/Sorcerers are at the same time too powerful and too weak. At low-levels they suck balls with their non-existant combat capabilities, at high levels they are capable of killing gods. I'm playing a Pseudodragon (modified) character, presently without class levels, racial HD only, so I have a bit of time to pick what class to choose. The problem is, I want to play as a Wizard, and present House Rules prevent me from going for a pure arcane caster, requiring I multiclass 1:1. I asked my DM about it and he said what I've stated in the first paragraph. Also, he told me he's willing to allow a Wizard if I present him with a revised one that's more balanced: Basically, it needs to be powerful, aye, but appropriate to a much smaller setting. This isn't world-sweeping adventure, this is stay-at-home adventure. So, any ideas how to do this?
elven warriorXX 12-27-05, 08:59 PM	The ultimate wizard and Sorcerer :) Most balanced classes in the game. They can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=172026) (wizard), and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=174004) (sorcerer)
AbuDhabi 12-28-05, 07:08 AM	That's not going to work here. What I need is a Wizard who is useful at low levels, yet definetally not capabale of destroying entire towns at high levels. I'm thinking of trimming down the high level spell slots and bolstering the low level spell slots (So a 20th level Wizard would have something like 9/8/6/5/4/3/3/2/2/1 spell slots).
True Cavalier 12-28-05, 10:00 AM	Sorcerer/wiz or clr/wiz multiclass, I guess.
AbuDhabi 12-28-05, 11:00 AM	Well, yeah, that'd work, but I don't want to multiclass. Here's what I was able to put together, so far. I've italicized the things I've changed in relation to the the regular wizard. Lesser Wizard Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d4. The Wizard's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Saves Spells per day Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Familiar, Scribe Scroll, Spell at Will 4 3 - - - - - 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 5 4 - - - - - 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Spell at Will 5 4 2 - - - - 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 4 3 - - - - 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus feat 6 5 4 - - - - 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Spell at Will 6 5 4 2 - - - 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 6 5 4 3 - - - 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 6 6 5 4 - - - 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Spell at Will 6 6 5 4 2 - - 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus feat 6 6 5 4 3 - - 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 6 6 6 5 4 - - 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Spell at Will 6 6 6 5 4 2 - 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 6 6 6 5 4 3 - 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 6 6 6 6 5 4 - 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus feat, Spell at Will 6 6 6 6 5 4 2 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Spell at Will 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus feat, Multispell 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 All of the following are class features of the wizard. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lesser Wizards are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a lesser wizard's movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. Spells: A lesser wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/ wizard spell list. A lesser wizard must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below). To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the lesser wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a lesser wizard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. Like other spellcasters, a lesser wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Lesser Wizard. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score. Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a lesser wizard may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night's sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the lesser wizard decides which spells to prepare. Bonus Languages: A lesser wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. Familiar: As per PHB. Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, a lesser wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. Spell at Will:At 1st, 3rd and every third level thereafter, a lesser wizard chooses one spell she is able to cast (specialist lesser wizards must choose from their specialist school), that spell she is henceforth able to cast any number of times a day as a spell-like ability. The chosen spells may not have expensive material components or XP cost. Bonus Feats: At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a lesser wizard gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. The lesser wizard must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The lesser wizard is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or Spell Mastery when choosing these feats. Spellbooks: A lesser wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory. A lesser wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the lesser wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new lesser wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new lesser wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a lesser wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to her own. Multispell: At 20th level, a lesser wizard may prepare a 3rd or lower level spell using a higher level spell slot that's a multiple of the spell's level. Doing so allows the lesser wizard cast that spell a number of times equal to the spell slot's level divided by the spell's level. Example: A magic missile (1st level spell) prepared using a 6th level spell slot can be cast 6 times a day. School Specialization: As per PHB. ------------------- Suggestions? Verdicts?
der_gogo 12-28-05, 11:49 AM	How about just playing a Bard?
AbuDhabi 12-28-05, 12:46 PM	Can't play a Bard for social reasons, we already have a dude who plays the same character in seperate games, and this character would be very similiar to another one of mine's so... no.
JakWote 12-30-05, 08:37 PM	I do like the alteration, especially the "all simple weapons" proficiency. I think it looks balanced decently, but it's hard to say for sure until you play through a few levels. Perhaps change spells per day at lvl 18 to 6 6 6 6 6 5 or 6666655, the three leves with no increase might help. Or add one seventh level spell to 20th level and max out 6th at lvl 19. Spell at will seems really overpowered though, imagine a level 6 wizard able to cast fireball unlimited time a day. Or dimension door later on. I'd suggest making this ability only good for spells 2 or 3 spell levels lower than maximum level to even things out (except for the first-level one, then only lvl 0). For multispell, consider casting at once instead of per day, thus the magic missile prepared at 6th level will cast 6 times at once in one round. Could make things interesting. Do you mind if I borrow these stats for an NPC?
AbuDhabi 01-03-06, 03:11 PM	I do like the alteration, especially the "all simple weapons" proficiency. I think it looks balanced decently, but it's hard to say for sure until you play through a few levels. Perhaps change spells per day at lvl 18 to 6 6 6 6 6 5 or 6666655, the three leves with no increase might help. Or add one seventh level spell to 20th level and max out 6th at lvl 19. Spell at will seems really overpowered though, imagine a level 6 wizard able to cast fireball unlimited time a day. Or dimension door later on. I'd suggest making this ability only good for spells 2 or 3 spell levels lower than maximum level to even things out (except for the first-level one, then only lvl 0). For multispell, consider casting at once instead of per day, thus the magic missile prepared at 6th level will cast 6 times at once in one round. Could make things interesting. Do you mind if I borrow these stats for an NPC? Feel free. On the spell at will: yeah, way overpowered. Fireballs at will aren't the way to go. I'm in the middle of a modified design right now. My DM even allowed me to use spellpoints. I've got another question: How much would spontaneous spellcasting affect a wizard? Little or greatly?
Asmodeous_IX 01-03-06, 04:04 PM	I dissagree that they are unballanced yes a high level scorcerer is practicly artillery and can kill almost any thing very quickly but they also have almost no hp and limited defensive options. Smart opponents should go for apperant spellcasters first for this very reason example: party (anti-palidin heavy plate, fighter wearing all black robes and kobold scorcerer wearing leather and holding a spear) vs black dragon i ask the party what their wearing, dragon sees robes (spellcaster!) armor bas sw (fighter) and stereotypical kobold warrior, goes for the apperant spellcaster realises hes not dying as he should and is fried by kobold bam 2 rounds 15 lv scorcerer is almost dead from one hit but killed dragon in 2 uhh ..... i guess in short i got no ideas i do however like the "IRON HEROES" arcanist and their spellcasting system
Ashanti 01-16-06, 08:49 AM	Why not just bang out a few scrolls to take with him on an adventure? This willgive him some more bang. Give him an X bow and he can shoot. Wizards were always and still are a bit of a trade off power/level wise.
DragonLord101 01-23-06, 02:24 AM	Right. The situation is this: I'm playing in a fun IRC-based game, but the DM thinks that Wizards/Sorcerers are at the same time too powerful and too weak. At low-levels they suck balls with their non-existant combat capabilities, at high levels they are capable of killing gods. Yes, at low levels they are weak, but that is they trade off... you get some very cool abilities as you go higher... Also, if you are meaning at extreme high epic levels that they can kill gods... maybe. Read the deities and demi gods handbook, they will wipe the floor with any 20th level character. :D I'm playing a Pseudodragon (modified) character, presently without class levels, racial HD only, so I have a bit of time to pick what class to choose. The problem is, I want to play as a Wizard, and present House Rules prevent me from going for a pure arcane caster, requiring I multiclass 1:1. I asked my DM about it and he said what I've stated in the first paragraph. Also, he told me he's willing to allow a Wizard if I present him with a revised one that's more balanced: So, any ideas how to do this? One thing that I have noticed whilest reading through these forums, is the overwhealming amount of DM's who are not balancing the game... they give wizards players too much, and make them extraordinarily powerful, while not sharing around that same generousity with everyone else... With wizards there are so many ways to make them more restricted with power growth, XP costs for much of their abilities, gold costs, limitations on the gathering of spells, limitations on powerful magic items, and of course making sure components are carried around and used, etc... When people follow these easy steps, there is no over-powering of wizards... they are merely a good class that has a very good adaptability...
Hodo 01-23-06, 10:36 PM	Yes, at low levels they are weak, but that is they trade off... you get some very cool abilities as you go higher... Also, if you are meaning at extreme high epic levels that they can kill gods... maybe. Read the deities and demi gods handbook, they will wipe the floor with any 20th level character. :D One thing that I have noticed whilest reading through these forums, is the overwhealming amount of DM's who are not balancing the game... they give wizards players too much, and make them extraordinarily powerful, while not sharing around that same generousity with everyone else... With wizards there are so many ways to make them more restricted with power growth, XP costs for much of their abilities, gold costs, limitations on the gathering of spells, limitations on powerful magic items, and of course making sure components are carried around and used, etc... When people follow these easy steps, there is no over-powering of wizards... they are merely a good class that has a very good adaptability... Exactly. Just because there's a super powerful, high level sorcerer/wizard spell in a book doesn't mean every player sorcerer/wizard that can potentially cast the spells should have access to it. Some very powerful spells, like some very powerful weapons and very powerful wonderous items, should not be readily available, and only given to players who go through the work to earn them. Charge money for spell components and realise that certain components might not be readily available, even if someone has the money. Diamond dust is not only expensive, but I'm pretty sure it's darn hard to make. Pearls, while perhaps common along the coast, should be more difficult to find as one moves inland. Spells that require material components from specific animals- like hummingbird feathers or live spiders- should take into account whether such animals are even available in some places. Take into account effects on material components pouches full of salt, sulfur, and other powdery substances when a spellcaster is submerged in water. Make spellcasters more reliant on their gear, like the other classes are.
Tytalus 01-23-06, 11:02 PM	Can't play a Bard for social reasons, we already have a dude who plays the same character in seperate games, and this character would be very similiar to another one of mine's so... no. The mechanics are just what you want, though. So play mechanically a bard, but with wizard flavor. Spells/day progression: as bard, with sor/wiz spells Spells known: as wizard (of course, limited by level), i.e., you need a spellbook Spellcasting: prepared spells (not spontaneous), casting stat is INT BAB, hit die, proficiencies, casting in armor: as bard Skills, saves: as wizard Remove bardic music, add a familiar and wizard bonus feats and you are good to go.