Revising Spellpoints [Archive] - Wizards Community

Revising Spellpoints [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeviat-DM
03-03-04, 01:40 AM I'm currently very worried about the spellpoint system as written. But for the longest time I have wanted to use a spell point system rather than a slotted system. Until now, I thought the only option was to make everyone spontanious and have limited spells known. This new option shows us a glimpse of how to do it otherwise.

But I have two rather large problems with the current system. First off, I feel that it makes sorcerer's mechanically obsolete (that's not saying that the flavor of the sorcerer still won't have a place, but it still requires some alterations). The wizard ends up having more spells known and can also swap out those spells; also, I haven't tested it just yet, but since the wizard gets access to new spell levels earlier, they will probably end up having more spell points at every odd level.

Secondly, I feel that the characters simply get too many spell slots. For those of you who don't have a PHB handy, a wizard typically has access to 3 spell slots of their highest spell level (counting bonus spells). Under the spell point mechanic, not counting bonus spell points for a high ability score, here's how the levels work out for casting one's highest level spells:

Level: Max castings of highest spell level
1: 2
2: 4
3: 2 (1 sp left)
4: 3 (2 sp left)
5: 3 (1 sp left)
6: 4 (4 sp left)
7: 4 (5 sp left)
8: 6 (2 sp left)
9: 6 (no sp left)
10: 8 (no sp left)
11: 8 (no sp left)
12: 9 (5 sp left)
13: 9 (3 sp left)
14: 10 (6 sp left)
15: 10 (2 sp left)
16: 11 (3 sp left)
17: 10 (14 sp left)
18: 11 (13 sp left)
19: 12 (12 sp left)
20: 13 (11 sp left)

Remember, this is just of the wizards base spell points, not taking into acount the bonus spell points the wizard will have. If they reserved their bonus spell points for other levels, they would be able to have those horrid amounts of high level spells in addition to a nice range of what ever low level spell they wanted on the fly.

This frightens me. I've never had the chance to play an old Psion straight through to 20, so I don't know if the Psion was really lacking in spell power. I liked the old mechanic, gained PP equal to the cost of their highest level power. True, this worked out to 2 spells per day of each level not counting bonus points, but the versatility was suposed to make up for it. Under the current UA mechanic, I feel that 13 meteor swarms a day for a wizard is just out of the question (remember, meteor swarm is a non-scaling damage spell, so the fact that the spell damages dont' scale won't matter for it).
chris7476
03-03-04, 08:00 AM There are a couple of other factors involved in this. First off, with the spell point system, a caster may be able to cast more higher level spells per day but they won't be able to cast as many spells as in the PHB.

I've never had the chance to play an old Psion straight through to 20, so I don't know if the Psion was really lacking in spell power

The thing with the psionic system is that power level (1-9) was more linear in how it scaled. With spells, this isn't the case. I remember one of the designers explaining this at one point and used the example that the spell levels go up exponentially in power whereas the psionic powers go up linearly in power (if that makes any sense).

In the psionic system, being able to cast more higher-level powers at the expense of lower ones wasn't as big of a deal as it is with spells.

First off, I feel that it makes sorcerer's mechanically obsolete

The simple remedy to this is just keep the way wizards memorize and prepare their spells the same but just use spell points to determine how many they can memorize. I'm not a big fan of the "preparing their spells known for the day" variant either.
Xorial
03-03-04, 09:42 AM Here is a possible solution to that worry. Use the Recharge Magic System combined with spell points. It will still allow the sorcerer to cast his higher spells more often, but will discourage anybody from casting JUST their highest level spells. If they have to "reload" for a few rounds, it will make them plan their spell usage better.

Also, when using metamagic with spell points, I would consider reversing the concept about spontaneous usage. I would let the sorcerers be the only ones to not suffer an increase in casting time, since they are of magical descent. That way wizards & clerics have to still prepare metamagic versions of spells to get "instant" benefits. This could keep the feel of the sorcerer as unique, espescially when the wizard will have a great boost in flexibility when preparing spells under this system.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 03-03-04, 01:40 AM	I'm currently very worried about the spellpoint system as written. But for the longest time I have wanted to use a spell point system rather than a slotted system. Until now, I thought the only option was to make everyone spontanious and have limited spells known. This new option shows us a glimpse of how to do it otherwise. But I have two rather large problems with the current system. First off, I feel that it makes sorcerer's mechanically obsolete (that's not saying that the flavor of the sorcerer still won't have a place, but it still requires some alterations). The wizard ends up having more spells known and can also swap out those spells; also, I haven't tested it just yet, but since the wizard gets access to new spell levels earlier, they will probably end up having more spell points at every odd level. Secondly, I feel that the characters simply get too many spell slots. For those of you who don't have a PHB handy, a wizard typically has access to 3 spell slots of their highest spell level (counting bonus spells). Under the spell point mechanic, not counting bonus spell points for a high ability score, here's how the levels work out for casting one's highest level spells: Level: Max castings of highest spell level 1: 2 2: 4 3: 2 (1 sp left) 4: 3 (2 sp left) 5: 3 (1 sp left) 6: 4 (4 sp left) 7: 4 (5 sp left) 8: 6 (2 sp left) 9: 6 (no sp left) 10: 8 (no sp left) 11: 8 (no sp left) 12: 9 (5 sp left) 13: 9 (3 sp left) 14: 10 (6 sp left) 15: 10 (2 sp left) 16: 11 (3 sp left) 17: 10 (14 sp left) 18: 11 (13 sp left) 19: 12 (12 sp left) 20: 13 (11 sp left) Remember, this is just of the wizards base spell points, not taking into acount the bonus spell points the wizard will have. If they reserved their bonus spell points for other levels, they would be able to have those horrid amounts of high level spells in addition to a nice range of what ever low level spell they wanted on the fly. This frightens me. I've never had the chance to play an old Psion straight through to 20, so I don't know if the Psion was really lacking in spell power. I liked the old mechanic, gained PP equal to the cost of their highest level power. True, this worked out to 2 spells per day of each level not counting bonus points, but the versatility was suposed to make up for it. Under the current UA mechanic, I feel that 13 meteor swarms a day for a wizard is just out of the question (remember, meteor swarm is a non-scaling damage spell, so the fact that the spell damages dont' scale won't matter for it).
chris7476 03-03-04, 08:00 AM	There are a couple of other factors involved in this. First off, with the spell point system, a caster may be able to cast more higher level spells per day but they won't be able to cast as many spells as in the PHB. I've never had the chance to play an old Psion straight through to 20, so I don't know if the Psion was really lacking in spell power The thing with the psionic system is that power level (1-9) was more linear in how it scaled. With spells, this isn't the case. I remember one of the designers explaining this at one point and used the example that the spell levels go up exponentially in power whereas the psionic powers go up linearly in power (if that makes any sense). In the psionic system, being able to cast more higher-level powers at the expense of lower ones wasn't as big of a deal as it is with spells. First off, I feel that it makes sorcerer's mechanically obsolete The simple remedy to this is just keep the way wizards memorize and prepare their spells the same but just use spell points to determine how many they can memorize. I'm not a big fan of the "preparing their spells known for the day" variant either.
Xorial 03-03-04, 09:42 AM	Here is a possible solution to that worry. Use the Recharge Magic System combined with spell points. It will still allow the sorcerer to cast his higher spells more often, but will discourage anybody from casting JUST their highest level spells. If they have to "reload" for a few rounds, it will make them plan their spell usage better. Also, when using metamagic with spell points, I would consider reversing the concept about spontaneous usage. I would let the sorcerers be the only ones to not suffer an increase in casting time, since they are of magical descent. That way wizards & clerics have to still prepare metamagic versions of spells to get "instant" benefits. This could keep the feel of the sorcerer as unique, espescially when the wizard will have a great boost in flexibility when preparing spells under this system.