Rework of attack actions and fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rework of attack actions and fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
camway
07-14-07, 08:54 AM I was gone for the weekend and by the time i remembered i forgot dealing with spell casting i was 3 states from the nearest computer i could use and thus i couldn't update. check it out.

======================================== =================
This entire document sums up the disagreements, which I have taken the time to write down, that I have with the current 3.5 standard rules for dungeons and dragons role playing. If there are any questions or things that I may have left out, please tell me, it is almost 8:00 in the morning and I’ve been typing since 3 a.m. so bare with me.

Areas of change have been made in or of dealing with the following:

*Wielding a Weapon
*Wielding Two Weapons
*Shields and fighting defensively
*Standard and Move actions
*Power Attack and Combat Expertise
*Spells
*Sundering Limbs
*Vitality and Hit points
*Drawing a Weapon
*Attack of Opportunities
*Cleave
*Spellcasting

Wielding a Weapon

Ok, so two guys walk into a fight one is wielding a sword while the other is fighting with fist. So in other words, according to the 3.5 armor class rules (assuming they both have the same dexterity), they have the same armor class and they have the same bonus to attack (assuming they have the same strength). Under normal fights sword on sword, you can deflect the blade but if that fist fighter were to try to deflect that sword with his fists he’s in for a surprise. In addition s sword could hit a man fighting his fist with ease (assuming that he does not have substantial training in weaponless fighting).

Fix: Wielding a weapon automatically gives you a base of +2 to your armor class. In addition any weapon proficiency or specialization feats to your armor class. Also wielding any weapon you are proficient with gives you a +2 to hit. Yes it negates, I’m aware of that, but someone with both aspects would be on even ground, someone lacking one would be left at a disadvantage. Wielding gauntlets also allows you to gain this bonus.

While Wielding two weapons you retain the +2 on each weapon however you only gain +1 to ac per weapon wielded due to the inability to apply your full strength into deflecting or completely stopping an offensive attack.

Dual Weapon Wielding

There are penalties while wielding two weapons however they are not as substantial as the current penalties which are near ridiculous.

Fix: While wielding two light weapons there is a -2 in the primary hand and a -4 in the off-hand. These penalties come from 2 things. The first is coordination. As someone who has done kendo, I have found personally that fighting with two swords is incredibly hard to coordinate you attacks usually leaving yourself focused on only one weapon or sucking with both. This gives a -2 over both attacks. The second is the fact that your coordination with your off-hand is obviously going to be worse than coordination with you primary. Thus you take a -2 on that attack.

While wielding a standard one handed weapon and a light weapon in the other the penalties are the exact same as wielding two light weapons.

While wielding two standard weapons you take a -2 in the primary and a -6 to the off-hand. The negatives are similar with an addition of -2 in the off-hand due wielding a larger weapon in the off-hand.

Shields and fighting defensively

Shields are vastly looked down on. If you’re fighting with a long sword up against someone who is defensively fighting with a shield, it’s almost impossible to hit them. However you still only gain a +1.

Fix: While fighting defensively with a shield your armor class is increased by your 2x your shields ac bonus and you gain 2 ac for every negative you attack you gain (assuming you have combat expertise).

In other words a heavy steel shield gives +2 bonus while fighting regularly. While fighting defensively at a negative one you gain and additionally +4 to armor class.

Actions in combat

Part 1: Right now in combat there is a free action, a move action, and a standard action. Someone can move 2x their base speed by expending both their move actions and their standard actions. So why is it that someone cannot expend their move action to gain yet another standard action?

The second reason this is ridiculous is seen simply by looking at the current full round attacks and standard attacks. Anything below level 6 and they are the exact same. Why is this? Is it that someone would be completely unable to make a second attack during that left over action when not making the full round attack?

Fix: The fact is there is not reason. Move actions can be exchanged for standards and standard actions for move actions. Someone who makes a standard attack is able to do half your total attacks rounded down (minimum of one). Someone who makes a full round action can attack with their full round of attacks +1 at a -2 of their highest Base Attack Bonus.

*This applies to range attacks as well.
*This also applies to standard actions and attacks that apply to attacks e.g. trip.

Part 2: Spell casting does apply here. This means that a wizard can cast 3 spells a turn. A spell that has been quick cast and then 2 standard spells.

Example: A level 1 fighter can make 2 attacks as a full round action, the first at his full attack bonus and the second at his full attack bonus -2.

Power Attack and Combat Expertise

This is more of a clarification rather than a change. The rules do not state that someone cannot take negatives to their attack to gain armor class bonuses through defensive (combat expertise) and at the same time take negatives to attack to gain damage.

Sundering Limbs

To remove someone’s arms legs or even head is something that I, even after playing dungeons and dragons and studying several different alternate rules, don’t know how you go about doing.

Fix: So here’s a simple way of doing it. First, you make a touch attack with your weapon. If it hits you make a sunder attempt (if they are wearing armor then you have to sunder their armor first or possibly both at the same time) if that is successful the limb is off. Doing this against the primary limbs (arms, legs, hands, or feet) takes a -4 while doing this to the head takes a -6. The hardness of bone is 5 while its hit points are 1. The armor must be sundered as well, if successful the damage remaining (subtract what was used on the armor) continues into the person.

Hit Points:

When a Great Sword comes crashing down on you and cuts you for thirty damage, you die. Enough Said. Hit Points are better looked as stamina while your actual vitality is going to be managed in a different fasion.

Fix: Every level you gain 2 vitality points per level + your constitution modifier + 10. This is not constitution per level, like hit points are. What this means is that a level 20 fighter with 30 Constitution has 60 vitality points. While a level 1 fighter with 16 constitution has 15.

The last addition to the vitality points is a +10, this is the range were most fighters will lose consciousness (unless they have the diehard feat). 3.5 normally has this as the -1 through -9 range however with these alterations that is now gone.

Example: When a level 1 fighter reaches 0 hit points and 10 vitality points he has a half round action per turn and falls unconscious at 9 vitality, he begins bleeding out for 1 vitality per round until a heal check is met or dies at 0 vitality.

Healing: With this alteration healing goes directly to vitality first, then when the HP are full, it immediately begins healing their hit point cache.

Drawing and sheathing your Weapon

This is only a slight variation.

Bab Time to Draw or sheath Blade
+0 move/standard
+1 Move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of a movement.
+5 Free Action at all times.
+10 Instantaneous at all times.

***Dm’s don’t let players abuse the instantaneous action and have them draw and sheath it at the speed of light doing it 1000 times a round in addition to their actions.***

Attack of Opportunity

As of right now the 3.5 rules state that you may make an Attack of Opportunity against anyone who does an action which provokes one, within your threat range. However, when a fighter is hell bent on killing the barbarian in front of him and not the mage behind him, when that mage casts a spell, he magically turns around, smacks him, then pivots again to attack the barbarian on his next attack.

Fix: While currently fighting the fighter threatens all squares in front of him in a cone shape starting at him and traveling outward until his range is met. If he has not engaged anyone and is currently aware of the enemies around him, he may make an AoO at anyone within his threat range who provokes one.

Cleave

This is one ability which has grown to become out of control. When a level 8 fighter is able to run all throughout a battlefield killing the army of level 1’s and 2’s in a single round, we have an issue, and so does their general.

Fix: The feats stays exactly the same except you cannot move any further than 2x your base speed in a round, including movements done by this feat. Cleaves made as AoO’s are considered to be movements made on the players up comming turn.

Also i feel that if you are looking for more modifications on the current rule system you should check out K's creations I and many other admire him and what he's worked so hard for recently and you should look over his works.

Addon: Spellcasting

Here's something everyone is going to find broken but oh well. According to the current rules there is a certain alloted number of spells perday, which makes no sense to me. so the cleric worships his god every day but if you cast 3 cure light wounds spells then he suddenly cutts out and leaves you ****ed. Or the mage who casts magic missle a few times and then suddenly loses all ability to cast any more spells.

Clerics and mages or the equivilents of can cast a spell much more times a day. So heres a different way so that we don't having peopls god's giving them the middle finger when they need them the most.

You have spell levels 1-9, i hope theres no arguement there, the level of the spell is the amount of rounds you must wait before casting that spell again and the amount of hit point loss. Yes, releasing destructive energies or having them channeled from your god through you does fatigue you, and thus hit point loss is essential to ballace. So in other words a level 1 cleric can heal 1 hit point every round or by the above explaination of actions 2 hit points a round.

Chart on this because i know someone won't understand

Spell level damage taken rounds to wait
0 0 0
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 3 3
4 4 4
5 5 5
6 6 6
7 7 7
8 8 8
9 9 9

Addon: Resistance to spells

Since spell casting is so powerful and whats his name from below was able to present a good point. Here's an easy system. Your ecl + 10 is your spell resistance. That means that someone of your level should have to roll a 10+ there main attribute, which if there good should be at least a +4 or +5. This is not under or over powered for either group so relax.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632562
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=646241
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=659653
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=681572
Max Octavious Xavier
07-14-07, 05:34 PM Wow, so many comments, so little time. I will limit myself to commenting on the following 2 ideas.

Ok, so two guys walk into a fight one is wielding a sword while the other is fighting with fist. So in other words, according to the 3.5 armor class rules (assuming they both have the same dexterity), they have the same armor class and they have the same bonus to attack (assuming they have the same strength). Under normal fights sword on sword, you can deflect the blade but if that fist fighter were to try to deflect that sword with his fists he’s in for a surprise. In addition s sword could hit a man fighting his fist with ease (assuming that he does not have substantial training in weaponless fighting).
That is taken into consideration by the fact that the fist guy provokes an Aoo from the sword guy when he attacks, unless he is trained in weaponless fighting (ie: Improved Unarmed Strike feat).

Part 2: Spell casting does apply here. This means that a wizard can cast 3 spells a turn. A spell that has been quick cast and then 2 standard spells.
There is a reason 3.0 haste spell was considered by many to be very, very broken. Spellcasters will rule the day even faster than they do now. This is a very bad idea.
Rhialto
07-14-07, 10:36 PM Regarding the Cleave feats, the SRD says you cannot move at all in order to make your bonus attack with cleave. You're actually making it easier for a fighter to walk through that army with your change.

regarding hit points, the SRD has a nice way to do teh vitality thing.
camway
07-15-07, 11:39 PM Regarding the Cleave feats, the SRD says you cannot move at all in order to make your bonus attack with cleave. You're actually making it easier for a fighter to walk through that army with your change.

regarding hit points, the SRD has a nice way to do teh vitality thing.

I've seen several ways of looking at this. The great Cleave feats says nothing of movement limitations like the Cleave feat does, thus in many games the subjects are alloted the 5 foot movement.
camway
07-15-07, 11:43 PM Wow, so many comments, so little time. I will limit myself to commenting on the following 2 ideas.

That is taken into consideration by the fact that the fist guy provokes an Aoo from the sword guy when he attacks, unless he is trained in weaponless fighting (ie: Improved Unarmed Strike feat).

There is a reason 3.0 haste spell was considered by many to be very, very broken. Spellcasters will rule the day even faster than they do now. This is a very bad idea.

First of all the fact is spellcasters will always rule, making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy in the 3.5 standards. However yes the mages would have power.... for about 3 seconds, then the wizards 4 spells would run dry and that fighter would be landing the 1 hit kill on him. There is no way to get around it. Someone who is able to kill 20 creatures by yelling is going to rape everything. Someone who is able to hit/kill there target from a distance that they cannot even hit for the first 4 rounds.... is going to rape them. Thus, making a character which is not magically intuned or antimagically intuned is retarded.

AKA don't make the fighter
ShadowChemosh
07-16-07, 12:22 AM I
Cleave

This is one ability which has grown to become out of control. When a level 8 fighter is able to run all throughout a battlefield killing the army of level 1’s and 2’s in a single round, we have an issue, and so does their general.

A 8th level fighter with Cleave and Great Cleave could kill a maximum of 4 creatures if wielding a single or two-handed weapon. As he gets to cleave only from a Real Attack as you can not Cleave off of a Cleave. Cleave is not Whirlwind as Great Cleave must still follow the rules of the base Feat Cleave which only allows ONE cleave attack per real attack.
Rhialto
07-16-07, 04:02 AM I've seen several ways of looking at this. The great Cleave feats says nothing of movement limitations like the Cleave feat does, thus in many games the subjects are alloted the 5 foot movement.

Nope. Great Cleave just says you can cleave more than once in a single round. It doesn't say you can cleave and move.
Max Octavious Xavier
07-16-07, 01:46 PM CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.
Special: A fighter may select Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.
GREAT CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: This feat works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round.
Special: A fighter may select Great Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.
RAW.
First of all the fact is spellcasters will always rule, making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy in the 3.5 standards. However yes the mages would have power.... for about 3 seconds, then the wizards 4 spells would run dry and that fighter would be landing the 1 hit kill on him. There is no way to get around it. Someone who is able to kill 20 creatures by yelling is going to rape everything. Someone who is able to hit/kill there target from a distance that they cannot even hit for the first 4 rounds.... is going to rape them. Thus, making a character which is not magically intuned or antimagically intuned is retarded.

AKA don't make the fighterOk, so your reasoning for making casters even more powerful is they "will always rule" and "making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy". This doesn't really make sense, at least to me it doesn't.

Addon: Spellcasting

Here's something everyone is going to find broken but oh well. According to the current rules there is a certain alloted number of spells perday, which makes no sense to me. so the cleric worships his god every day but if you cast 3 cure light wounds spells then he suddenly cutts out and leaves you ****ed. Or the mage who casts magic missle a few times and then suddenly loses all ability to cast any more spells.

Clerics and mages or the equivilents of can cast a spell much more times a day. So heres a different way so that we don't having peopls god's giving them the middle finger when they need them the most.

You have spell levels 1-9, i hope theres no arguement there, the level of the spell is the amount of rounds you must wait before casting that spell again and the amount of hit point loss. Yes, releasing destructive energies or having them channeled from your god through you does fatigue you, and thus hit point loss is essential to ballace. So in other words a level 1 cleric can heal 1 hit point every round or by the above explaination of actions 2 hit points a round.
A few questions.
- Have you looked at the Recharge Magic section in the Unearthed Arcana? It's similar in concept.
- During the 9 rounds after I cast spell x, can I cast spell y (also a 9th level spell)?
- During the 9 rounds after I cast spell x, can I cast spell y (any level except 9th)?
camway
07-16-07, 10:40 PM All I did with the above was take concepts out of the above which didn't make sense to me and modify them for the purpose of being used in house games if you should choose.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
camway 07-14-07, 08:54 AM	I was gone for the weekend and by the time i remembered i forgot dealing with spell casting i was 3 states from the nearest computer i could use and thus i couldn't update. check it out. ======================================== ================= This entire document sums up the disagreements, which I have taken the time to write down, that I have with the current 3.5 standard rules for dungeons and dragons role playing. If there are any questions or things that I may have left out, please tell me, it is almost 8:00 in the morning and I’ve been typing since 3 a.m. so bare with me. Areas of change have been made in or of dealing with the following: Wielding a Weapon Wielding Two Weapons Shields and fighting defensively Standard and Move actions Power Attack and Combat Expertise Spells Sundering Limbs Vitality and Hit points Drawing a Weapon Attack of Opportunities Cleave Spellcasting Wielding a Weapon Ok, so two guys walk into a fight one is wielding a sword while the other is fighting with fist. So in other words, according to the 3.5 armor class rules (assuming they both have the same dexterity), they have the same armor class and they have the same bonus to attack (assuming they have the same strength). Under normal fights sword on sword, you can deflect the blade but if that fist fighter were to try to deflect that sword with his fists he’s in for a surprise. In addition s sword could hit a man fighting his fist with ease (assuming that he does not have substantial training in weaponless fighting). Fix: Wielding a weapon automatically gives you a base of +2 to your armor class. In addition any weapon proficiency or specialization feats to your armor class. Also wielding any weapon you are proficient with gives you a +2 to hit. Yes it negates, I’m aware of that, but someone with both aspects would be on even ground, someone lacking one would be left at a disadvantage. Wielding gauntlets also allows you to gain this bonus. While Wielding two weapons you retain the +2 on each weapon however you only gain +1 to ac per weapon wielded due to the inability to apply your full strength into deflecting or completely stopping an offensive attack. Dual Weapon Wielding There are penalties while wielding two weapons however they are not as substantial as the current penalties which are near ridiculous. Fix: While wielding two light weapons there is a -2 in the primary hand and a -4 in the off-hand. These penalties come from 2 things. The first is coordination. As someone who has done kendo, I have found personally that fighting with two swords is incredibly hard to coordinate you attacks usually leaving yourself focused on only one weapon or sucking with both. This gives a -2 over both attacks. The second is the fact that your coordination with your off-hand is obviously going to be worse than coordination with you primary. Thus you take a -2 on that attack. While wielding a standard one handed weapon and a light weapon in the other the penalties are the exact same as wielding two light weapons. While wielding two standard weapons you take a -2 in the primary and a -6 to the off-hand. The negatives are similar with an addition of -2 in the off-hand due wielding a larger weapon in the off-hand. Shields and fighting defensively Shields are vastly looked down on. If you’re fighting with a long sword up against someone who is defensively fighting with a shield, it’s almost impossible to hit them. However you still only gain a +1. Fix: While fighting defensively with a shield your armor class is increased by your 2x your shields ac bonus and you gain 2 ac for every negative you attack you gain (assuming you have combat expertise). In other words a heavy steel shield gives +2 bonus while fighting regularly. While fighting defensively at a negative one you gain and additionally +4 to armor class. Actions in combat Part 1: Right now in combat there is a free action, a move action, and a standard action. Someone can move 2x their base speed by expending both their move actions and their standard actions. So why is it that someone cannot expend their move action to gain yet another standard action? The second reason this is ridiculous is seen simply by looking at the current full round attacks and standard attacks. Anything below level 6 and they are the exact same. Why is this? Is it that someone would be completely unable to make a second attack during that left over action when not making the full round attack? Fix: The fact is there is not reason. Move actions can be exchanged for standards and standard actions for move actions. Someone who makes a standard attack is able to do half your total attacks rounded down (minimum of one). Someone who makes a full round action can attack with their full round of attacks +1 at a -2 of their highest Base Attack Bonus. This applies to range attacks as well. This also applies to standard actions and attacks that apply to attacks e.g. trip. Part 2: Spell casting does apply here. This means that a wizard can cast 3 spells a turn. A spell that has been quick cast and then 2 standard spells. Example: A level 1 fighter can make 2 attacks as a full round action, the first at his full attack bonus and the second at his full attack bonus -2. Power Attack and Combat Expertise This is more of a clarification rather than a change. The rules do not state that someone cannot take negatives to their attack to gain armor class bonuses through defensive (combat expertise) and at the same time take negatives to attack to gain damage. Sundering Limbs To remove someone’s arms legs or even head is something that I, even after playing dungeons and dragons and studying several different alternate rules, don’t know how you go about doing. Fix: So here’s a simple way of doing it. First, you make a touch attack with your weapon. If it hits you make a sunder attempt (if they are wearing armor then you have to sunder their armor first or possibly both at the same time) if that is successful the limb is off. Doing this against the primary limbs (arms, legs, hands, or feet) takes a -4 while doing this to the head takes a -6. The hardness of bone is 5 while its hit points are 1. The armor must be sundered as well, if successful the damage remaining (subtract what was used on the armor) continues into the person. Hit Points: When a Great Sword comes crashing down on you and cuts you for thirty damage, you die. Enough Said. Hit Points are better looked as stamina while your actual vitality is going to be managed in a different fasion. Fix: Every level you gain 2 vitality points per level + your constitution modifier + 10. This is not constitution per level, like hit points are. What this means is that a level 20 fighter with 30 Constitution has 60 vitality points. While a level 1 fighter with 16 constitution has 15. The last addition to the vitality points is a +10, this is the range were most fighters will lose consciousness (unless they have the diehard feat). 3.5 normally has this as the -1 through -9 range however with these alterations that is now gone. Example: When a level 1 fighter reaches 0 hit points and 10 vitality points he has a half round action per turn and falls unconscious at 9 vitality, he begins bleeding out for 1 vitality per round until a heal check is met or dies at 0 vitality. Healing: With this alteration healing goes directly to vitality first, then when the HP are full, it immediately begins healing their hit point cache. Drawing and sheathing your Weapon This is only a slight variation. Bab Time to Draw or sheath Blade +0 move/standard +1 Move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of a movement. +5 Free Action at all times. +10 Instantaneous at all times. *Dm’s don’t let players abuse the instantaneous action and have them draw and sheath it at the speed of light doing it 1000 times a round in addition to their actions.* Attack of Opportunity As of right now the 3.5 rules state that you may make an Attack of Opportunity against anyone who does an action which provokes one, within your threat range. However, when a fighter is hell bent on killing the barbarian in front of him and not the mage behind him, when that mage casts a spell, he magically turns around, smacks him, then pivots again to attack the barbarian on his next attack. Fix: While currently fighting the fighter threatens all squares in front of him in a cone shape starting at him and traveling outward until his range is met. If he has not engaged anyone and is currently aware of the enemies around him, he may make an AoO at anyone within his threat range who provokes one. Cleave This is one ability which has grown to become out of control. When a level 8 fighter is able to run all throughout a battlefield killing the army of level 1’s and 2’s in a single round, we have an issue, and so does their general. Fix: The feats stays exactly the same except you cannot move any further than 2x your base speed in a round, including movements done by this feat. Cleaves made as AoO’s are considered to be movements made on the players up comming turn. Also i feel that if you are looking for more modifications on the current rule system you should check out K's creations I and many other admire him and what he's worked so hard for recently and you should look over his works. Addon: Spellcasting Here's something everyone is going to find broken but oh well. According to the current rules there is a certain alloted number of spells perday, which makes no sense to me. so the cleric worships his god every day but if you cast 3 cure light wounds spells then he suddenly cutts out and leaves you ****ed. Or the mage who casts magic missle a few times and then suddenly loses all ability to cast any more spells. Clerics and mages or the equivilents of can cast a spell much more times a day. So heres a different way so that we don't having peopls god's giving them the middle finger when they need them the most. You have spell levels 1-9, i hope theres no arguement there, the level of the spell is the amount of rounds you must wait before casting that spell again and the amount of hit point loss. Yes, releasing destructive energies or having them channeled from your god through you does fatigue you, and thus hit point loss is essential to ballace. So in other words a level 1 cleric can heal 1 hit point every round or by the above explaination of actions 2 hit points a round. Chart on this because i know someone won't understand Spell level damage taken rounds to wait 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 8 8 8 9 9 9 Addon: Resistance to spells Since spell casting is so powerful and whats his name from below was able to present a good point. Here's an easy system. Your ecl + 10 is your spell resistance. That means that someone of your level should have to roll a 10+ there main attribute, which if there good should be at least a +4 or +5. This is not under or over powered for either group so relax. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632562 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=646241 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=659653 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=681572
Max Octavious Xavier 07-14-07, 05:34 PM	Wow, so many comments, so little time. I will limit myself to commenting on the following 2 ideas. Ok, so two guys walk into a fight one is wielding a sword while the other is fighting with fist. So in other words, according to the 3.5 armor class rules (assuming they both have the same dexterity), they have the same armor class and they have the same bonus to attack (assuming they have the same strength). Under normal fights sword on sword, you can deflect the blade but if that fist fighter were to try to deflect that sword with his fists he’s in for a surprise. In addition s sword could hit a man fighting his fist with ease (assuming that he does not have substantial training in weaponless fighting). That is taken into consideration by the fact that the fist guy provokes an Aoo from the sword guy when he attacks, unless he is trained in weaponless fighting (ie: Improved Unarmed Strike feat). Part 2: Spell casting does apply here. This means that a wizard can cast 3 spells a turn. A spell that has been quick cast and then 2 standard spells. There is a reason 3.0 haste spell was considered by many to be very, very broken. Spellcasters will rule the day even faster than they do now. This is a very bad idea.
Rhialto 07-14-07, 10:36 PM	Regarding the Cleave feats, the SRD says you cannot move at all in order to make your bonus attack with cleave. You're actually making it easier for a fighter to walk through that army with your change. regarding hit points, the SRD has a nice way to do teh vitality thing.
camway 07-15-07, 11:39 PM	Regarding the Cleave feats, the SRD says you cannot move at all in order to make your bonus attack with cleave. You're actually making it easier for a fighter to walk through that army with your change. regarding hit points, the SRD has a nice way to do teh vitality thing. I've seen several ways of looking at this. The great Cleave feats says nothing of movement limitations like the Cleave feat does, thus in many games the subjects are alloted the 5 foot movement.
camway 07-15-07, 11:43 PM	Wow, so many comments, so little time. I will limit myself to commenting on the following 2 ideas. That is taken into consideration by the fact that the fist guy provokes an Aoo from the sword guy when he attacks, unless he is trained in weaponless fighting (ie: Improved Unarmed Strike feat). There is a reason 3.0 haste spell was considered by many to be very, very broken. Spellcasters will rule the day even faster than they do now. This is a very bad idea. First of all the fact is spellcasters will always rule, making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy in the 3.5 standards. However yes the mages would have power.... for about 3 seconds, then the wizards 4 spells would run dry and that fighter would be landing the 1 hit kill on him. There is no way to get around it. Someone who is able to kill 20 creatures by yelling is going to rape everything. Someone who is able to hit/kill there target from a distance that they cannot even hit for the first 4 rounds.... is going to rape them. Thus, making a character which is not magically intuned or antimagically intuned is retarded. AKA don't make the fighter
ShadowChemosh 07-16-07, 12:22 AM	I Cleave This is one ability which has grown to become out of control. When a level 8 fighter is able to run all throughout a battlefield killing the army of level 1’s and 2’s in a single round, we have an issue, and so does their general. A 8th level fighter with Cleave and Great Cleave could kill a maximum of 4 creatures if wielding a single or two-handed weapon. As he gets to cleave only from a Real Attack as you can not Cleave off of a Cleave. Cleave is not Whirlwind as Great Cleave must still follow the rules of the base Feat Cleave which only allows ONE cleave attack per real attack.
Rhialto 07-16-07, 04:02 AM	I've seen several ways of looking at this. The great Cleave feats says nothing of movement limitations like the Cleave feat does, thus in many games the subjects are alloted the 5 foot movement. Nope. Great Cleave just says you can cleave more than once in a single round. It doesn't say you can cleave and move.
Max Octavious Xavier 07-16-07, 01:46 PM	CLEAVE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack. Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round. Special: A fighter may select Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats. GREAT CLEAVE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: This feat works like Cleave, except that there is no limit to the number of times you can use it per round. Special: A fighter may select Great Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats. RAW. First of all the fact is spellcasters will always rule, making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy in the 3.5 standards. However yes the mages would have power.... for about 3 seconds, then the wizards 4 spells would run dry and that fighter would be landing the 1 hit kill on him. There is no way to get around it. Someone who is able to kill 20 creatures by yelling is going to rape everything. Someone who is able to hit/kill there target from a distance that they cannot even hit for the first 4 rounds.... is going to rape them. Thus, making a character which is not magically intuned or antimagically intuned is retarded. AKA don't make the fighterOk, so your reasoning for making casters even more powerful is they "will always rule" and "making a pure bred fighter in todays standards would be to the extent of idiocy". This doesn't really make sense, at least to me it doesn't. Addon: Spellcasting Here's something everyone is going to find broken but oh well. According to the current rules there is a certain alloted number of spells perday, which makes no sense to me. so the cleric worships his god every day but if you cast 3 cure light wounds spells then he suddenly cutts out and leaves you ****ed. Or the mage who casts magic missle a few times and then suddenly loses all ability to cast any more spells. Clerics and mages or the equivilents of can cast a spell much more times a day. So heres a different way so that we don't having peopls god's giving them the middle finger when they need them the most. You have spell levels 1-9, i hope theres no arguement there, the level of the spell is the amount of rounds you must wait before casting that spell again and the amount of hit point loss. Yes, releasing destructive energies or having them channeled from your god through you does fatigue you, and thus hit point loss is essential to ballace. So in other words a level 1 cleric can heal 1 hit point every round or by the above explaination of actions 2 hit points a round. A few questions. - Have you looked at the Recharge Magic section in the Unearthed Arcana? It's similar in concept. - During the 9 rounds after I cast spell x, can I cast spell y (also a 9th level spell)? - During the 9 rounds after I cast spell x, can I cast spell y (any level except 9th)?
camway 07-16-07, 10:40 PM	All I did with the above was take concepts out of the above which didn't make sense to me and modify them for the purpose of being used in house games if you should choose.