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Jaerom Darkwind 06-02-04, 08:52 PM	Mirror thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252319) on the Races board. This thread was originally posted at Dicefreaks. Many thanks to Kain Darkwind, Bane, and all the others who contributed ideas. ~JD I love the concept of racial paragons presented in Unearthed Arcana. The flavor is great, and the concept is one that had never occurred to me, but that I liked from the start. There are a few problems in its implementation, but still, I’d like to make the classes workable. I’d love to be able to create low-level NPCs (or even PCs) who aren’t members of any specific class, but just "average" members of their races. I’m reworking the classes to include five levels, and am paying specific attention to making them A) playable from 1st level, and B) worth taking for all five levels. These versions, then, are based on both the core race and the racial paragon mechanics and patterns already established. I’ve tried to change as little as possible while fulfilling my own vision of how they should be. One addition to the racial paragon that is 100% original is the Racial Prestige feature. This allows a character who advances 5 levels in her racial paragon class to gain special advantages in qualifying for the prestige class that best represents her race, designed to allow her to qualify for a class at 6th level when it normally wouldn't be possible. This serves as something of an extension of the paragon class itself, allowing a character to continue improving her racial strengths and fulfilling her race's ideals. Note that paragon classes are considered to be racially favored in addition to any other favored class, and thus never cause experience penalties. All of the PHB races are now complete, as well as various others done by request. A warning: These classes use medium saves extensively—if you’re not a fan of the medium save, you’ll need to do some conversion. THE MEDIUM SAVEFormula: 1 1/5 + 2/5 class level Med Fracc Lvl Save Save _ 1st +1 +1 3/5 2nd +2 +2 3rd +2 +2 2/5 4th +2 +2 4/5 5th +3 +3 1/5 6th +3 +3 3/5 7th +4 +4 8th +4 +4 2/5 9th +4 +4 4/5 10th +5 +5 1/5 11th +5 +5 3/5 12th +6 +6 13th +6 +6 2/5 14th +6 +6 4/5 15th +7 +7 1/5 16th +7 +7 3/5 17th +8 +8 18th +8 +8 2/5 19th +8 +8 4/5 20th +9 +9 1/5 ____________________ The Paragon Human is cool because of its sheer versatility—truly fitting of the race. It can be anything, depending on how you build. You want a psionic human? Take psionic skills and begin advancing in manifester levels as a psion. An arcane warrior? You’ve got the skills and feats, just advance in sorcerer spellcasting, etc. The problem with the human was its first level. 4 SP and an ability that doesn’t even take effect until you leave the class? I advanced them to 6 SP per level (since the half-humans already get 4), and gave them a free skill focus and medium armor. I think it looks a lot better now. I also gave them all medium saves, rather than some high and some low, since it fits more with the jack-of-all-trades nature of the human. This is the best time to point out a major change I’ve added to the paragon classes—that of spellcasting. The fact that some characters get spells in these classes and others don’t, with no compensation, bugs me a lot. Either the class is balanced with the spellcasting, or it isn’t. If it is, then it’s underpowered without it. If it isn’t, then spellcasters become overpowered with it. I’ll give Andy Collins et al the benefit of the doubt, and say that the material they published isn’t overpowered, so subtracting the casting really hurts the classes. My solution is that a character with no spellcasting that enters one of these classes can begin advancing, beginning at caster level 1. Humans can choose which class they want. I think it looks fine, but if it becomes a problem, I’m also considering giving these characters apprentice-level casting at level 2, and full 1st-level casting at 3 (with 2nd-level casting coming at 5, as normal). But I’d like opinions first. HUMAN PARAGON (Human) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save* Save* Save* Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +0 +0 +0 Adaptive learning, Skill Focus -- 2nd +1 +0 +0 +0 Bonus feat +1 level in existing class 3rd +2 +1 +1 +1 Ability boost (+2) +1 level in existing class 4th +3 +1 +1 +1 Jack of All Trades -- 5th +3 +2 +2 +2 Ability boost (+2) +1 level in existing class * The human paragon receives the "good" saving throw progression for one saving throw of her choice.Class Skills The human paragon can choose any 12 skills to be class skills (Knowledge skills must be selected individually). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the human paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Human paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, with light and medium armor, and with bucklers. In addition, they are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice. Human paragons not already proficient with all martial weapons may forgo their martial weapon proficiency and gain instead the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a bonus feat. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a human paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known if applicable) as if she had gained a level in a previous spellcasting class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of human paragon to her levels in the spellcasting class, and then determines caster level, known spells, and spells per day accordingly. If the human paragon has levels in more than one spellcasting class, she must choose which class to apply the effective caster level increase to at each level. If she has no levels in a spellcasting class, she may choose one and begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). The human paragon may similarly choose to advance in psionic ability, and receive bonus manifester levels at these levels in place of caster levels. A human paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in a chosen spellcasting class normally. Adaptive Learning (Ex): At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of her selected class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes of that character, both current and future. For example, a human paragon who chooses Spot as an adaptive skill can treat Spot as a class skill for all future class levels, even if it is not normally a class skill for these classes. Skill Focus: At 1st level, a human paragon gains a bonus Skill Focus feat. This feat must apply to her selected adaptive skill. Bonus feat: At 2nd level, a human paragon gains a bonus feat. She must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, and again at 5th level, a human paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to an ability score of her choice. These bonuses must be applied to different ability scores. Jack of All Trades: At 4th level, a human paragon gains the Jack of All Trades feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Human Prestige: A 5th-level human paragon may qualify to enter certain prestige classes even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She qualifies as though her base attack bonus were two points higher, as though she had two additional ranks in her adaptive skill, as though she could cast spells one level higher than her highest-level spell, and as though she were proficient with all martial weapons and heavy armor. Popular choices for adventuring human paragons include the extreme explorer, harper scout, and chameleon prestige classes. ____________________ The standard human paragon assumes at least a moderate level of magic in a campaign world, and that magic is readily available (and desirable) to all who wish to study it. Thus, a paragon human would jump at the chance to add magic to her already considerable array of abilities. However, in a more grim & gritty world, where magic isn't as open or available, a human needs to rely more on her own natural abilities and leave supernatural gifts to the other more fantastic races. Under these circumstances, an alternate human paragon can be used, one that allows a human to focus more on strengths that are uniquely human, without relying on outside powers. I've created this alternative human paragon for those who believe that humanity needs no magic to excel. I removed the spellcasting completely, assigned all Medium saves, and upped the BAB and HD. All other abilities remain as they were, but I think that the class stacks up nicely next to the other full BAB classes. HUMAN PARAGON (Human) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +1 +1 +1 Adaptive learning, Skill Focus 2nd +2 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat 3rd +3 +2 +2 +2 Ability boost (+2) 4th +4 +2 +2 +2 Jack of All Trades 5th +5 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (+2)Class Skills The human paragon can choose any 12 skills to be class skills (knowledge skills must be selected individually). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the human paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Human paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and with light and medium armor. In addition, they are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice. Human paragons not already proficient with all martial weapons may forgo their martial weapon proficiency and gain instead the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a bonus feat. Adaptive Learning (Ex): At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of her selected class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes of that character, both current and future. For example, a human paragon who chooses Spot as an adaptive skill can treat Spot as a class skill for all future class levels, even if it is not normally a class skill for these classes. Skill Focus: At 1st level, a human paragon gains a bonus Skill Focus feat. This feat must apply to her selected adaptive skill. Bonus feat: At 2nd level, a human paragon gains a bonus feat. She must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, and again at 5th level, a human paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to an ability score of her choice. These bonuses must be applied to different ability scores. Jack of All Trades: At 4th level, a human paragon gains the Jack of All Trades feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Human Prestige: A 5th-level human paragon may qualify to enter certain prestige classes even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She qualifies as though her base attack bonus were two points higher, as though she had two additional ranks in her adaptive skill, and as though she were proficient with all martial weapons and heavy armor. Popular choices for adventuring human paragons include the extreme explorer, harper scout, and chameleon prestige classes. The harper scout prestige class is found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. The chameleon prestige class is found in Races of Destiny. Information on the Extreme Explorer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040204a) prestige class was released by WotC in connection with the Eberron Campaign Setting. The full class can be found in the link above, but here is an overview: Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +1 +1 +1 Additional action points, trap sense +1 2nd +1 +2 +2 +2 Dodge bonus +1, evasion, extreme hustle 3rd +2 +2 +2 +2 Bonus action feat, trap sense +2 4th +3 +2 +2 +2 Dodge bonus +2, extreme action 5th +3 +3 +3 +3 Bonus action feat, trap sense +3
Jaerom Darkwind 06-02-04, 08:54 PM	Dwarves are a cool race; I envision them as being rather similar to Klingons in customs and culture. Dwarves were pretty good for 1st level, but to give them a little nudge I gave them tower shield proficiency. I was unsure what to give them at higher levels, so I turned to the race itself, and discovered that the issue of dwarven racial enemies hadn’t been touched, and that there were still a lot of limits on their Darkvision. So here is the dwarf paragon class, probably the least altered of all of them. DWARF PARAGON (Dwarf) Alignment: Any lawful. HD: d10. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Craft expertise, improved stonecunning, poison save bonus 2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Improved darkvision, save bonus 3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Ability boost (Str +2) 4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Greater darkvision, racial enemy 5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Ability boost (Con +2)Class Skills The dwarf paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Survival (Wis). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the dwarf paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dwarf paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; with light, medium, and heavy armor; and with shields, including tower shields. Craft Expertise: A dwarf paragon adds her class level to her racial bonus on all Craft checks that are related to stone or metal items. Improved Stonecunning (Ex): At 1st level, a dwarf paragon’s bonus to Search checks to notice unusual stonework increases to +4. She can intuit where true north lies in relation to herself (as if she had 5 ranks in Survival) whenever underground. Finally, the range at which the dwarf receives a free Search check for coming near an example of unusual stonework increases to 20 feet. Poison Save Bonus: At 1st level, a dwarf paragon’s racial bonus on saves against poison increases by +1. Improved Darkvision (Ex): At 2nd level, a dwarf paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Save Bonus: At 2nd level, a dwarf paragon’s racial bonus on saves against poison and against spells and spell-like effects increases by +1. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a dwarf paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Strength. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Constitution by +2. Greater darkvision (Ex): At 4th level, a dwarf paragon’s darkvision range again increases by 30 feet, and now functions even in magical darkness effects of 2nd level or lower. Racial Enemy: At 4th level, a dwarf paragon’s abilities to battle her racial enemies increases. She may select one of the following monster categories as a favored racial enemy: giants, humanoids (goblinoids), or humanoids (orcs). This is identical to a ranger’s favored enemy (see the Player’s Handbook). If the dwarf paragon has occasion to improve her favored enemy abilities, through feats or the ranger class, for example, she may apply these improvements to her favored racial enemy instead. Dwarven Prestige: A 5th-level dwarf paragon may qualify to enter the Dwarven Defender prestige class even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisites: Toughness, base attack bonus +7. _____________________ Elves are one of my favorite races. In my world they’re the major world power (I’ve never understood how a race so powerful has lost so much ground in other worlds), and an ECL +1 race. I look at the elf paragon, and I like what I see. 1st level, as usual, wasn’t quite enough, so I gave them a little AC boost (for the legendary elven grace, etc.). I’ve also altered the skill list a tad. According to the flavor text, elves prefer to focus on song, dance, poetry, and so forth, but they didn’t have Perform on their list. And I think that any skill for which a race receives a racial bonus belongs on the racial paragon list (Search, in this case). At higher levels, they get even more elfsight (bringing it up to traditional expectations), and a bonus to their speed, again emphasizing their innate agility. ELF PARAGON (Elf) Alignment: Any chaotic. HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +0 +2 +1 Elfsight, grace, resist -- enchantments 2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 Weapon focus +1 level of wizard 3rd +2 +1 +3 +2 Ability boost (Int +2) +1 level of wizard 4th +3 +1 +4 +2 Fast movement, true elfsight -- 5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Ability boost (Dex +2) +1 level of wizardClass Skills The elf paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (draconic) (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the elf paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Elf paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, rapiers, longswords, shortbows, longbows, and with light armor and bucklers. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, an elf paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known is applicable) as if she had gained a level in wizard. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of elf paragon to her levels in wizard, and then determines her known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the elf paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. For example, a wiz4/elf3 would have the spell per day of a 6th-level wizard, but would resolve the effects of these spells as a 7th-level caster. An elf5 would have the spells per day of a 3rd-level wizard, but would cast these spells as a 5th-level caster. If the elf paragon has no levels in wizard, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). An elf paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the wizard class normally. Elfsight (Ex): At 1st level, an elf paragon’s visual acuity increases. Her racial bonus on Search and Spot checks increase to +4. In addition, the elf paragon’s low-light vision increases in range, allowing her to see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. Grace (Ex): An elf paragon gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too. Resist Enchantments (Ex): A 1st level elf paragon’s racial bonus on saves against enchantment spells or effects increases by +2. Weapon Focus: At 2nd level, an elf paragon gains a bonus Weapon Focus feat. This feat must apply to the rapier, longsword, shortbow, longbow, composite shortbow, or composite longbow. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, an elf paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Intelligence. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Dexterity by +2. Fast Movement (Ex): At 4th level, an elf paragon’s land speed increases by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing light or no armor, and not carrying a medium or heavy load. True Elfsight (Ex): At 4th level, an elf paragon’s visual acuity increases again. Her racial bonus on Search and Spot checks increase to +6. Her low-light vision now allows her to see four times as far as a human in conditions of poor illumination. Also, the range at which the elf paragon receives a free Search check for coming near a secret or concealed door increases to 10 feet. Elven Prestige: A 5th-level elf paragon may qualify to enter the Bladesinger prestige class even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisites: Dodge, base attack bonus +5. ____________________ Gnomes got royally shafted in 3.5, as most everyone knows. A race that was never very cohesive or popular to begin with suddenly got changed from a half-way decent favored class (Illusionist) to one of the worst classes in all of D&D (the Bard). Screw WotC. I’m not going to revise the gnomish race, because I think it still salvageable. In this paragon class I’m going to try to bring back a little of the gnomish illusionist glory. I chose bardic spellcasting because it’s pretty much the only part of their “favored class” with gnomish flavor (and I’m trying real hard to use the crap WotC has handed us for gnomes). I mostly stuck with listed paragon abilities, though I changed the levels in a few cases. At higher levels I gave them scent, to enhance their already-sensitive noses, and bonuses to mechanical skills to ease them into their (traditional) racial prestige class: Gnome Artificer. GNOME PARAGON (Gnome) Alignment: Any good. HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +1 +1 +2 Illusion aptitude, mirror image -- 2nd +1 +2 +2 +3 Keen senses, spell-like +1 level of bard abilities 3/day 3rd +2 +2 +2 +3 Ability boost (Cha +2) +1 level of bard 4th +3 +2 +2 +4 Magical aptitude, scent -- 5th +3 +3 +3 +4 Ability boost (Int +2) +1 level of bardClass Skills The gnome paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the gnome paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gnome paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, with gnomish hooked hammers, and with light armor. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a gnome paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known is applicable) as if she had gained a level in bard. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of gnome paragon to her levels in bard, and then determines her known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the gnome paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. For example, a brd4/gnome3 would have the spells per day of a 6th-level bard, but would resolve the effects of these spells as a 7th-level caster. A gnome5 would have the spells per day of a 3rd-level bard, but would cast these spells as a 5th-level caster. If the gnome paragon has no levels in bard, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A gnome paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the bard class normally. Illusion Aptitude (Ex): A gnome paragon may add her class level to her caster level to determine the effects of her illusion spells (regardless of the class that grants the spellcasting ability), including those gained from the gnome race. This bonus level stacks with the extra spellcasting levels gained from the gnome paragon’s spellcasting entry (see above). This increased caster level affects only the spells that the character can cast. It does not give her access to higher-level spells or more spells per day. Mirror Image (Sp): At 2nd level, a gnome paragon gains the ability to cast mirror image once per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her class level. Keen Senses (Ex): At 2nd level, a gnome paragon’s racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks increase by +2. Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Beginning at 2nd level, a gnome paragon can use her racial spell-like abilities (dancing lights, ghost sound, and prestidigitation) three times per day. At 4th level, she likewise may use her mirror image ability three times per day. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a gnome paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Intelligence. At 5th level, she gains a +2 racial bonus to Charisma. Mechanical Aptitude (Ex): At 4th level, a gnome paragon gains an insight into the functions of mechanical objects. She gains a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Disable Device, and Open Lock checks. Scent (Ex): At 4th level, a gnome paragon gains the scent ability. Gnomish Prestige: Gnome paragons favor the Gnome Articifer prestige class. ____________________ Half-elves were done much better that half-orcs, both in their race than their racial paragon. Changes in this class were minor. I decided to limit half-elven spellcasting to wizard levels, to reflect their elven side, just as half-orcs get barbarian abilities from their orc blood. At higher levels, I gave them a few more elven abilities to round things off. HALF-ELF PARAGON (Half-elf) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +0 +2 +1 Bonus feat, elven vision, -- unified ancestry 2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 persuasion +1 level of wizard 3rd +2 +1 +3 +2 Ability boost (+2) +1 level of wizard 4th +3 +1 +4 +2 Elfsight, resist enchantment -- 5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Ability boost (+2) +1 level of wizard Class Skills The half-elf paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the elf paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Half-elf paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor. Spells Per Day: At 2nd and 4th level, a half-elf paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known is applicable) as if she had gained a level in wizard. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of half-elf paragon to her levels in wizard, and then determines her known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the half-elf paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. For example, a wiz4/half-elf3 would have the spell per day of a 5th-level wizard, but would resolve the effects of these spells as a 7th-level caster. A half-elf5 would have the spells per day of a 2nd-level wizard, but would cast these spells as a 5th-level caster. If the half-elf paragon has no levels in wizard, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A half-elf paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the wizard class normally. Bonus feat: At 1st level, a half-elf paragon gains a bonus feat. She must meet the feat's prerequisites normally in order to take it. Elven Vision (Ex): At 1st level, a half-elf paragon's visual acuity improves to match that of an elf. The half-elf's racial bonus on Search and Spot checks increases to +2. Unified Ancestry (Ex): A half-elf paragon has reconciled her elven blood with her human nature, and is no longer subject to effects that affect on humans or only elves. Thus, a 1st level half-elf paragon would not be subject to the extra damage from a humanoid (elf)-bane longsword, but would still be susceptible to a charm person spell, since it affects all humanoids regardless of race. Persuasion (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-elf paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to all Charisma-based skills (if she already has a racial bonus to a Charisma-based skill, in increases by +2). Ability Boost: At 3rd level, and again at 5th level, a half-elf paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to an ability score of her choice. Elfsight (Ex): At 4th level, a half-elf paragon’s visual acuity increases. Her racial bonus on Search and Spot checks increase to +4. In addition, the half-elf paragon’s low-light vision increases in range, allowing her to see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. Resist Enchantments (Ex): A 4th level half-elf paragon’s racial bonus on saves against enchantment spells or effects increases by +2. Half-Elven Prestige: A 5th-level half-elf paragon may qualify to enter certain prestige classes even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She qualifies as though her base attack bonus were two points higher, as though she had two additional ranks in any Charisma-based skill, and as though she could cast spells one level higher than her highest-level spell. ____________________ Half-orcs under the core rules are all kinds of wrong. They have no racial abilities to speak of, a net deficit in ability points (I don't know who told WotC that Str is better than both Int and Cha combined, nor do I know why they believed him), and end up more like 9/10-orcs than half-orcs. A comparison to the half-elf is unfavorable in the extreme, since half-elves truly do mix human and elf equally. The only thing a half-orc gets from her human blood is watered-down ability score adjustments. On the best race-calc I've ever seen, where all core races ranked between ECL -0.1 and ECL 0.3, the half-orc was an ECL -0.7. This pretty much indicated that a half-orc one level higher than the rest of the party would be balanced. 3.5, which fixed problems with many of the other races, neglected half-orcs completely. So before I could write up a half-orc paragon, I needed to fix the race itself. I used the half-elf for inspiration, added some racial abilities from their orc heritage, and came out with this: HALF-ORCS - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence. A half-orc's Intelligence is always at least 3. If this adjustment would lower the character's score to 1 or 2, her score is nevertheless 3. - Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. - Half-orc land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all. - +2 racial bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and effects. - +1 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks. - +1 racial bonus on Intimidate checks. - +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal and Survival checks. - Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc. - Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-orc takes an experience point penalty, her highest level class does not count. Once I had the race complete, I began work on the class. The half-orc paragon seemed to follow the same general pattern as the race itself: 9/10-orc grunt. So while I have used a few of its abilities, my final product is based once again on the half-elf paragon. In both cases, I scrapped the Divided Ancestry feature, since it flatly contradicts the flavor text (which says that they've reconciled both of their halves, not that they have to choose one to emphasize). HALF-ORC PARAGON (Half-orc) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +1 Bonus feat, orcish senses, unified ancestry 2nd +2 +3 +0 +2 Rage 1/day, wilderness lore 3rd +3 +3 +1 +2 Ability boost (+2) 4th +4 +4 +1 +2 Natural armor bonus, scent 5th +5 +4 +1 +3 Ability boost (+2) Class Skills The half-orc paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the half-orc paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Half-orc paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; with light and medium armor; and with shields (except tower shields). Bonus feat: At 1st level, a half-orc paragon gains a bonus feat. She must meet the feat's prerequisites normally in order to take it. Orcish Senses (Ex): At 1st level, a half-orc paragon's senses sharpen to match those of an orc. Her racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks increases to +2. Unified Ancestry (Ex): A half-orc paragon has reconciled her orc blood with her human nature, and is no longer subject to effects that affect only humans or only orcs. Thus a 1st level half-orc paragon would not be subject to the extra damage from a humanoid (orc)-bane longsword, but would still be susceptible to a charm person spell, since it affects all humanoids regardless of race. Rage (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-orc paragon learns to harness the natural ferocity that courses through her blood, and gains the ability to fly into a fiery battle rage once per day. This is identical to a barbarian's rage (see the Player's Handbook). If the half-orc paragon has improved rage abilities (such as the barbarian's class features of greater rage, tireless rage, indomitable will, or mighty rage), these improvements apply to the rage ability granted by the half-orc paragon class as well. Wilderness Lore (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-orc's racial bonus on Handle Animal and Survival checks increases to +4. In addition, she gains a +2 racial bonus on Heal and Ride checks. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, and again at 5th level, a half-orc paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to an ability score of her choice. Natural Armor Bonus: At 4th level, a half-orc paragon's natural armor bonus increases by +1. If half-orc does not already have a natural armor bonus, she is considered to have an initial natural armor bonus on +0 for the purpose of this ability, and would thus gain a natural armor bonus of +1. Scent (Ex): At 4th level, a half-orc paragon's senses sharpen, and she gains the scent ability. Half-Orc Prestige: A 5th-level half-orc paragon may qualify for certain prestige classes even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She qualifies as though her base attack bonus were two points higher; as though she had two additional ranks in Handle animal, Intimidate, Listen, or Survival; and as though she could rage one additional time per day. ____________________ Halflings. Okay, no one really likes them that much, but for completeness… The Halfling didn’t suffer from any serious flaws (a pity that the only race they did very well is among the least used). The first level was good, it scaled nicely, etc. I wasn’t sure what to give at 5th level, since the Halfling “archetype” (if we can imagine such as thing) is fairly limited. I dumped Dex at 3rd and moved it to 5th, and then I added Cha at 3rd (since it was really the only other ability score I could see raising). HALFLING PARAGON (Halfling) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +1 +2 +0 Athletic prowess, save bonus 2nd +1 +2 +3 +0 Thrown weapon mastery 3rd +2 +2 +3 +1 Ability boost (Cha +2) 4th +3 +2 +4 +1 Fast movement, fearless 5th +3 +3 +4 +1 Ability boost (Dex +2) Class Skills The halfling paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Slight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the halfling paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Halfling paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, with Halfling skiprocks, and with light armor. Athletic Prowess(Ex): At 1st level, a halfling paragon’s racial bonus to Climb, Jump, and Move Silently increases to +4. Save bonus: A 1st-level halfling paragon’s racial bonus on all saving throws increases by +1. Thrown Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 2nd level, a halfling paragon gains a +2 bonus to attacks and damage with thrown weapons and slings. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a halfling paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Charisma. At 5th level, a halfling paragon’s racial bonus to Dexterity increases by +2. Fast Movement (Ex): At 4th level, a halfling paragon’s land speed increases by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing light or no armor, and not carrying a medium or heavy load. Fearless (Ex): At 4th level, a halfling paragon gains immunity to fear (magical or otherwise). Halfling Prestige: Halfling paragons favor the Master Thrower and Halfling Outrider prestige classes.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-02-04, 08:55 PM	Aasimar paragons were not included in Unearthed Arcana. Andy Collins stated that there wasn't enough space for all of the popular races, and they wanted to include paragons that could be villains as well. So Teifling was in, and Aasimar was out. I love Aasimar (Aasimars?), mostly because I love paladins. So an Aasimar Paragon class was essential. Andy Collins has made several recommendations for the Aasimar Paragon by way of apology for the oversight, and I based this version on those ideas. He also stated that ECL races deserve more powerful paragons than normal races. Noted. AASIMAR PARAGON (Aasimar) Alignment: Any good. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Improved resistance 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Daylight 3/day, skill bonus 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (Cha +2) 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Celestial bloodline 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Ability boost (Wis +2)Class Skills The aasimar paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the aasimar paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Aasimar paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; and with light, medium, and heavy armor. Improved Resistance (Ex): An aasimar paragon’s natural resistances to energy (acid, cold, and electricity) increase by 5. Daylight (Sp): At 2nd level, an aasimar paragon can use her daylight spell-like ability three times per day. Skill Bonus: At 2nd level, an aasimar paragon's racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks improves to +4. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, an aasimar paragon increases her racial bonus to Charisma by +2. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Wisdom likewise. Celestial Bloodline: At 4th level, an aasimar paragon's celestial heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. In addition, she gains the ability to use bless once per day and protection from evil three times per day as spell-like abilities (DC 10 + paragon level + Cha modifier). The caster level for these effects is equal to the aasimar paragon's level. Aasimar Prestige: [To be determined] For more fun with Aasimar, check out the Aasimar Racial Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), which allows you to begin play as an aasimar at level 1 (or better yet, an aasimar paragon at level 1), and the Aasimar/Half-Celestial Transition Class, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) where an Aasimar can transform into a full half-celestial. Yes, you can get to level 8 without entering a real class, as a pure aasimar! ____________________ The genasi races as presented in Monsters of Faerûn and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting are listed as an ECL +1 race, but are barely stronger than the standard races, if at all. They are an obvious example of the "ECL inflation" that the designers have admitted to using (to "encourage" players to use standard races). In addition, they are virtually identical one to another, despite the great differences between the elementals they descend from. The first step in making racial paragons for them, then, was to properly balance and flavor the races. The races I have based my classes on were found on the WotC boards (I was as surprised as the rest of you to find something of worth there). I've made a few adjustments to them, but I must give credit to the original designer, A Man In Black (the original races and his analysis can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143616)). I will, therefore, limit my own remarks to the classes themselves, and merely post the original author's comments on the races. As with the other planetouched, the focus of the classes is on improving racial abilities and becoming more like the original planar ancestor. Thus, at 4th level the class culminates with the Elemental Bloodline feat and the elemental subtype (though those who stay on till 5th level gain a +2 ability bonus and racial prestige, which is hardly anticlimactic). The subtype is mostly symbolic at that point, because in levels 1 and 2 the class includes all of the abilities implied in the subtype (like flight for air genasi and burrowing for earth genasi). To determine other abilities, I looked hard at the MotP elemental templates and the 3.5-updated elementals. Anyway, here are the four Genasi races and paragons, beginning with Air: So, for your perusal, is an attempt to bring the genasi up to par. No insane abilities, just greater access to their spell-like abilities, some changes to the stat mods (almost no increases), and some miscellaneous bonuses. I also got rid of the totally inane clerical focus; why can't an earth genasi worship a god of strength, instead of earth? Air Genasi have only gotten minor changes, like an improvement on any acquired flight in lieu of a skill bonus. I think Quickened Levitate at will is worth an ECL +1 at effective level 8. Air genasi were unarguably the best of the genasi. They only got an affinity to flight and the same universal access to their spell-like abilities that all the other genasi recieved. (Note that I pushed back the at-will use of genasi spell-likes to ECL 10 in my versions.) Air Genasi - +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. - Medium: As Medium creatures, air genasi have no special bonuses or penalties. - Native Outsider: Genasi are native outsiders. As such, they are immune to spells or effects that affect humanoids, but are affected by spells or effects that target outsiders. - Air genasi base land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Air genasi can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but is otherwise like normal sight, and air genasi can function just fine with no light at all. - Levitate (Sp): An air genasi can use the levitate spell once per day as if cast by a sorcerer of their character level (at least 5th). Air genasi can use this ability as a free action, allowing an air genasi to interrupt a fall, as with featherfall. At 9th character level, this ability can be used at will. - An air genasi who gains the ability to fly always has a maneuverability class one better than usual. For example, good maneuverability becomes perfect. This ability is retained even if the flight ability comes from a spell or magic item, or even if the air genasi gains wings from spells or effects like Polymorph, Alter Self, Wildshape, or so on. This maneuverability comes from an innate understanding of flight, not any physical or magical attributes of an air genasi's body. - +1 racial bonus on saving throws against all air spells and effects, including the supernatural or spell-like special abilities of creatures with the air subtype. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels the genasi attains. - Breathless (Ex): Air genasi do not breathe, so they are immune to drowning, suffocation, and attacks that require inhalation (such as some types of poison). This includes gas-based spell effects, such as -cloudkill-. - Automatic Languages: Common and Auran. Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored Class: Rogue. - Level Adjustment +1: Air genasi are slightly more powerful and gain levels more slowly than most other races. Once I had the race set, it was time to make the paragon. With air genasi, I ran into something of a problem. The most obvious and important ability for any air elemental is flight. Flight is, however, an obviously powerful ability. Any half-decent flight ability is in and of itself worth a whole ECL +1. But I had to give it, and in such a way that it would be both useful and balanced. To balance flight, then, I gave the class mostly low progressions and HD, and had it negate the air genasi SLA. The other abilities are obvious enough. With the Dex bonuses, the air genasi eventually reaches the +6 Dex bonus of air creatures. All in all, the air genasi paragon is a quick, agile, and graceful warrior. AIR GENASI PARAGON (Air) Alignment: Any chaotic HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Air mastery, grace, skill bonus 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Flight 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Ability bonus (+2 Dex) 4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Elemental bloodline 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Ability bonus (+2 Dex) Class Skills The air genasi paragon's class skills (and the key ability modifier for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (the planes [the inner planes]) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the air genasi paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Air genasi paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armors, and with bucklers. Air Mastery (Ex): Airborne creatures take a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls against an air genasi paragon. Grace (Ex): An air genasi paragon gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor. Skill Bonus: At 1st level, an air genasi paragon gains a +4 racial bonus on Balance checks. Flight (Ex): At 2nd level, an air genasi paragon gains the extraordinary ability to fly at will, as the spell (but with perfect maneuverability). This replaces her racial spell-like ability levitate. The air genasi paragon may suppress or reactivate this ability as a free action. Ability Bonus: At 3rd level, and again at 5th level, an air genasi paragon gains an additional +2 racial bonus to her Dexterity score. Elemental Bloodline (Ex): At 4th level, an air genasi paragon's elemental heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. The air genasi paragon gains a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. In addition, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 20% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. Finally, the air genasi paragon gains the air subtype. Air Genasi Prestige: TBA ____________________ Earth genasi are stealing some dwarf abilities that they really should have. Earth genasi are no longer rendered totally moot by half-orcs and dwares. This version could make a great fighter, but also a pretty decent ranger, rogue, or even wizard. (Note that I removed the dwarven bonus on craft and appraise checks, because I don't think it was really that appropriate.) Earth Genasi - +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Earth genasi are physically impressive, but can be oblivious and stubborn. - Medium: As Medium creatures, earth genasi have no special bonuses or penalties. - Native Outsider: Genasi are native outsiders. As such, they are immune to spells or effects that affect humanoids, but are affected by spells or effects that target outsiders. - Earth genasi base land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Earth genasi can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but is otherwise like normal sight, and earth genasi can function just fine with no light at all. - Stable (Ex): Earth genasi gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). Few things can move a creature of earth elemental blood when it doesn't want to move. - +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class. - Stonecunning (Ex): This ability grants an earth genasi a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn't stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. An earth genasi who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and an earth genasi can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. An earth genasi can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. - Pass Without Trace (Sp): Earth genasi can use pass without trace once per day as cast by a druid of their character level (at least 5th). At 9th character level, this can be used at will. - +1 racial bonus on saving throws against earth spells and effects and mineral poisons, including the supernatural, spell-like special abilities, or poisons of creatures with the earth subtype. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels the genasi attains. - Automatic Languages: Common and Terran. Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored Class: Fighter. - Level Adjustment +1: Earth genasi are slightly more powerful and gain levels more slowly than most other races. The earth genasi paragon is fairly straight-forward. At 1st level, a burrow speed, which folds into Earth Glide at 2nd level (pass without trace likewise folds in). Improved Stonecunning was a must, as was elemental mastery. Push is a really fun ability that's new for 3.5, and together with Stable it kind of makes EGPs into Mini-Dreadnaughts. The rest is just basic elemental enhancements. The only ability I didn’t include but would have liked to is Tremorsense, but there just wasn’t room. EARTH GENASI PARAGON (Earth) Alignment: Any lawful HD: d10. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +1 Burrow (20 ft.), earth mastery, improved stonecunning 2nd +2 +3 +0 +2 Earth glide, push 3rd +3 +3 +1 +2 Ability bonus (+2 Con) 4th +4 +4 +1 +2 Elemental bloodline 5th +5 +4 +1 +3 Ability bonus (+2 Str) Class Skills The earth genasi paragon's class skills (and the key ability modifier for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (the planes [the inner planes]) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Survival (Wis). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the earth genasi paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Earth genasi paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; with light, medium, and heavy armors; and with shields (except tower shields). Burrow: At 1st level, an earth genasi paragon gains a burrow speed of 20 ft. Earth Mastery (Ex): An earth genasi paragon gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls if both she and her foe are touching the ground. If an opponent is airborne or waterborne, the earth genasi paragon takes a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Improved Stonecunning (Ex): At 1st level, an earth genasi paragon's bonus to Search checks to notice unusual stonework increases to +4. She can intuit where true north lies in relation to herself (as if she had 5 ranks in Survival) when underground. Finally, the range at which the earth genasi paragon receives a free Search check for coming near an example of unusual stonework increases to 20 ft. Earth Glide (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, an earth genasi paragon can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. Her burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence. This replaces the earth genasi paragon's racial spell-like ability pass without trace. A move earth spell cast on an area containing a burrowing earth genasi paragon flings her back 30 feet, stunning her for 1 round unless she succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save. Push (Ex): At 2nd level, an earth genasi paragon gains the Improved Bull Rush feat as a bonus feat. The combat modifiers given in Earth Mastery, above, also apply to the opposed Strength checks. Ability Bonus: At 3rd level, an earth genasi paragon gains an additional +2 racial bonus to her Constitution score. At 5th level, she gains a similar bonus to her Strength score. Elemental Bloodline (Ex): At 4th level, an earth genasi paragon's elemental heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. The air genasi paragon gains a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. In addition, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 20% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. Finally, the earth genasi paragon gains the earth subtype. Earth Genasi Prestige: TBA ____________________ Fire genasi really needed the most benefit. The Charisma penalty is replaced with a Charisma bonus and a Wisdom penalty. Plus, they get immunity to heat subdual damage (yawn), easier access to Elemental Savant, and Spell Power on fire elemental spells. This fire genasi is more of a fire blaster; behind his human peers' breadth and access to spells, but a slightly better fire elementalist. It's a waste of their fire affinity to be anything but a spellcaster, but that was true with the old fire genasi, too. (Note that I removed the elemental savant thing and instead put it, in altered form, in Fire Genasi Prestige.) Fire Genasi - +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom. - Medium: As Medium creatures, fire genasi have no special bonuses or penalties. - Native Outsider: Genasi are native outsiders. As such, they are immune to spells or effects that affect humanoids, but are affected by spells or effects that target outsiders. - Fire genasi base land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Fire genasi can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but is otherwise like normal sight, and fire genasi can function just fine with no light at all. - Control Flame (Sp): Fire genasi can cause a nonmagical fire within 10 feet in them to diminish to the level of coals or flare to the brightness of daylight and double the normal radius of its illumination. This ability does not change the heat output or fuel consumption of the fire source, lasts 5 minutes, and may be done once per day. They use this ability as a sorcerer of their character level (at least 5th). At 9th character level, they may use this ability at will (although only once per day in conjunction with the Healing Flames feat). - +1 racial bonus on saving throws against fire spells and effects, including the supernatural or spell-like special abilities of creatures with the fire subtype. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels the genasi attains. - Spell Power (fire) +1: Fire genasi gain a +1 bonus to caster level to determine the effects of fire spells (spells with the [fire] subtype). This includes spells to which the Elemental Substitution (fire) feat has been applied. - Immune to nonlethal damage caused by heat. Fire genasi are comfortable in the desert, as the sweltering heat only makes them feel stronger. - Automatic Languages: Common and Ignan. Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored Class: Sorcerer. - Level Adjustment +1: Fire genasi are slightly more powerful and gain levels more slowly than most other races. The fire genasi paragon was difficult, because all of the fire elemental abilities have to do with setting things on fire, and most of the racial abilities... also involve setting things on fire. In fact, a medium fire elemental's only ability is... to burn stuff. A pretty powerful ability for a 1st level character. Serious adaptation was needed here. But UA came to the rescue, and provided me with the answer. I gave them the Controlled Immolation feat (which is a conditional version of the burning stuff thing), as well as Healing Flames, more uses of their SLA, and pyrotechnics. Now I’m more or less content, but am still looking for feedback. FIRE GENASI PARAGON (Fire) Alignment: Any chaotic HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +0 +1 +2 Control flame 3/day, controlled -- immolation 2nd +1 +0 +2 +3 Healing flames, pyrotechnics 1/day +1 level of sorcerer 3rd +1 +1 +2 +3 Ability boost (+2 Cha) +1 level of sorcerer 4th +2 +1 +2 +4 Elemental bloodline -- 5th +2 +1 +3 +4 Ability boost (+2 Dex) +1 level of sorcerer Class Skills The fire genasi paragon's class skills (and the key ability modifier for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes [the inner planes]) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the fire genasi paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fire genasi paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and light armor. Spellcasting: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a fire genasi paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known) as if she had gained a level in sorcerer. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of fire genasi paragon to her levels in sorcerer, and then determines her known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the fire genasi paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. If the fire genasi paragon has no levels in sorcerer, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A fire genasi paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the sorcerer class normally. Control Flame (Ex): A fire genasi paragon may use her control flames ability three times per day (including in conjunction with the Healing Flames heat). Controlled Immolation (Ex): If a fire genasi catches on fire (as described on page 303 of the DMG), she takes no damage from the flames. A creature striking her with its body or a handheld weapon takes 1d6 points of fire damage. The fire persists on her body for 1d4 rounds. This ability does not protect her from other sources of fire damage, whether magical or not, only from the effects of catching on fire. It also doesn’t protect her equipment from the effects of fire. Healing Flames: At 2nd level, a fire genasi paragon gains the Healing Flames feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. Pyrotechnics (Sp): Beginning at 2nd level, a fire genasi paragon can use pyrotechnics once per day, as the spell (DC 12 + Cha modifier). Ability Bonus: At 3rd level, a fire genasi paragon gains an additional +2 racial bonus to her Charisma score. At 5th level, she likewise gains a +2 racial bonus to her Intelligence score. Elemental Bloodline (Ex): At 4th level, a fire genasi paragon's elemental heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. The fire genasi paragon gains a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. In addition, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 20% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. Finally, the fire genasi paragon gains the fire subtype. Fire Genasi Prestige: A 5th-level fire genasi paragon may enter the elemental savant prestige class without meeting all of the prerequisites. She may ignore the following prerequisite: able to cast one 3rd-level fire spell. In addition, as an outsider possessing the fire subtype, she automatically fulfills the prerequisite of making peaceful contact with such an outsider. ____________________ Water Genasi are also stuck with a completely lame spell-like ability, which has been changed. With that changed and an inexplicably-missing swim bonus added (why are river Spirit Folk better swimmers than Water Genasi?), they're fine. I considered giving water genasi +2 wisdom, to give them an aspect of "looking downstream" and taking the long view, but their swimming abilities got SO much better that I decided not to. Other than the changed spell-like ability (which isn't even really as good as a Tiefling's Darkness), the water genasi fills exactly the same role as the previous version. The author did choose to give them +2 Wisdom in the end. He also didn't seem to understand that the swim bonus was implied by the swim speed. I removed the separate entry for it, and piled all swim info under the swim speed entry, Water Genasi - +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom -2 Charisma. Water genasi inherit insight and toughness from their ancestors, but their tendency to look "downstream" seems alien to some. - Medium: As Medium creatures, water genasi have no special bonuses or penalties. - Native Outsider: Genasi are native outsiders. As such, they are immune to spells or effects that affect humanoids, but are affected by spells or effects that target outsiders. - Water genasi base land speed is 30 feet, and base swim speed is 30 feet. This means that she can move through water at its swim speed without making Swim checks. A water genasi has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. She can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. Finally, she can use the run action while swimming, provided she swims in a straight line. - Darkvision: Water genasi can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but is otherwise like normal sight, and water genasi can function just fine with no light at all. - -Obscuring Mist- (Sp): Water genasi can use the -obscuring mist- spell once per day as a sorcerer of their character level (at least 5th). At 9th character level, this can be used at will. - +1 racial bonus on saving throws against water spells and effects, including the supernatural or spell-like special abilities of creatures with the water subtype. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 character levels the genasi attains. - Immune to nonlethal damage caused by cold conditions. Water genasi are immune to the freezing chill of the ocean's depths. - Amphibious: Water genasi breathe water or air equally well. Spells which would fill the target's lungs with water or otherwise overwhelm the target's breathing with water have no effect on water genasi. - Automatic Languages: Common and Aquan. Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored class: Druid. - Level Adjustment +1: Water genasi are slightly more powerful and gain levels more slowly than most other races. Well, not much to say. Water elemental abilities, more obscuring mist, more swim action, etc. Not sure if drench is too much at 1st level, but this's how it stands at present. WATER GENASI PARAGON (Water) Alignment: Any lawful HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +1 +0 +2 Drench, water mastery -- 2nd +1 +2 +0 +3 Rapid swimming, obscuring mist 3/day +1 level of druid 3rd +2 +2 +1 +3 Ability boost (+2 Wis) +1 level of druid 4th +3 +2 +1 +4 Obscuring mist, water subtype -- 5th +3 +3 +1 +4 Ability boost (+2 Con) +1 level of druid Class Skills The water genasi paragon's class skills (and the key ability modifier for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the planes [the inner planes]) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the water genasi paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Water genasi paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, with light and medium armors, and with shields (except tower shields). Spellcasting: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a water genasi paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known is applicable) as if she had gained a level in druid. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of water genasi paragon to her levels in druid, and then determines her spells per day accordingly. However, the water genasi paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. If the water genasi paragon has no levels in druid, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A water genasi paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the druid class normally. Drench (Ex): A water genasi paragon's touch puts out torches, campfires, exposed lanterns, and other open flames of nonmagical origin if these are of Large size or smaller. She can dispel magical fire she touches as -dispel magic- (caster level equals 5 + class level). Water Mastery (Ex): A water genasi paragon gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls if both she and her opponent are touching water. If either she or the opponent is touching the ground, the water genasi paragon takes a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Rapid Swimming: At 2nd level, a water genasi paragon's swim speed increases by 30 ft. Obscuring Mist (Sp): Beginning at 2nd level, a water genasi paragon may use her racial spell-like ability obscuring mist three times per day. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a water genasi paragon gains an additional +2 racial bonus to her Wisdom score. At 5th level, she gains an additional racial bonus to her Constitution score. Elemental Bloodline (Ex): At 4th level, a water genasi paragon's elemental heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. The water genasi paragon gains a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. In addition, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 20% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. Finally, the water genasi paragon gains the water subtype. Water Genasi Prestige: TBA ____________________ (See the Aasimar for the rhyme and reason). TIEFLING PARAGON (Tiefling) Alignment: Any evil. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Improved resistance 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Darkness 3/day, skill bonus 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (Dex +2) 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Fiendish bloodline 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Ability boost (Int +2)Class Skills The tiefling paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the tiefling paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Tiefling paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and light armor. Improved Resistance (Ex): A tiefling paragon’s natural resistances to energy (cold, electricity, and fire) increase by 5. Darkness (Sp): At 2nd level, a tiefling paragon can use her darkness spell-like ability three times per day. Skill Bonus: At 2nd level, a tiefling paragon's racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks improves to +4. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a tiefling paragon increases her racial bonus to Dexterity by +2. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Intelligence likewise. Fiendish Bloodline: At 4th level, a tiefling paragon's fiendish heritage begins to manifest itself more fully, and her body changes to more closely resemble that of her ancestors. In addition, she gains the ability to use bane once per day and protection from good three times per day as spell-like abilities (DC 10 + paragon level + Cha modifier). The caster level for these effects is equal to the tiefling paragon's level. Tiefling Prestige: [Forthcoming]
Jaerom Darkwind 06-02-04, 08:57 PM	Here's the Drow. Enjoy. DROW PARAGON (Drow) Alignment: Any nongood. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spellcasting 1st +0 +0 +2 +1 Daylight adaptation, -- improved spell-like abilities 2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 Improved darkvision (+30 ft.) +1 cleric or wizard level 3rd +2 +1 +3 +2 Ability boost (Dex +2) +1 cleric or wizard level 4th +3 +1 +4 +2 Improved spell resistance -- 5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Ability boon (Int or Wis +2) +1 cleric or wizard levelClass Skills The drow paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the drow paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Drow paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, rapiers, longswords, and hand crossbows, and with light armor and bucklers. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a female drow paragon gains new spells per day as if she had gained a level in wizard. A male drow paragon instead gains new spells per day as of he had gained a level of wizard. The paragon does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that the character adds these levels of elf paragon to the levels in cleric or wizard, and then determines known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the drow paragon adds his or her entire class level to any levels in the spellcasting class to determine caster level. If the drow paragon has no levels in cleric or wizard, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A drow paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the cleric or wizard class normally. Daylight Adaptation: A drow paragon gains the Daylight Adaptation feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Improved Spell-like Abilities: A drow paragon can use her racial spell-like abilities three times per day. Improved Darkvision: At 2nd level, a drow paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a drow paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity. At 5th level, a female drow paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Wisdom; a male drow paragon instead increases his racial bonus to Intelligence by +2. Improved Spell Resistance: At 4th level, a drow paragon gains a +2 bonus to her spell resistance. _________________________________ HALF-CELESTIAL PARAGON (Celestial) Alignment: Any exalted. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Celestial vision, natural armor bonus, smite evil 2/day 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Celestial resistances, magic circle against evil, tongues 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (Con +2, Cha +2) 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Celestial apotheosis 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Ability boost (Str +2, Wis +2) Class Skills The half-celestial paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the half-celestial paragon. Celestial Vision: A half-celestial paragon has low-light vision and darkvision out to 90 feet. Natural Armor Bonus: A half-celestial paragon's natural armor bonus increases by +1. Smite Evil (Su): A half-celestial paragon can smite evil one additional time per day. Celestial Resistances: At 2nd level, a half-celestial paragon gains resistance to fire 10. Magic Circle against Evil (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a magic circle against evil effect always surrounds a half-celestial paragon (caster level equal to the character's Hit Dice). Tongues (Su): A half-celestial apragon of 2nd-level or higher can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to character’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a half-celestial paragon increases her racial bonuses to Constitution and Charisma by +2. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonuses to Strength and Wisdom likewise. Celestial Apotheosis: At 4th level, a half-celestial paragon gains the good subtype, and her damage reduction changes to 10/evil. In addition, she becomes immune to acid, cold, and petrification. Half-Celestial Prestige [Forthcoming] ________________________________________ _________ Okay, here's a half-dragon paragon that I whipped up just now for a friend of mine for an upcoming game. Fairly straightforward. I gave him most of the benefits of the dragon HD, except scaling back skill points for balance reasons. A racial bonus on Intimidate checks to simulate the fear aura, a natural armor bonus, and more breath weapons rounded off the lower levels, plus sorcerer spellcasting (like his draconic daddy). At 4th level, I agonized over it for a while, but in the end added wings. Since the designers have said that classes with high LAs can have more powerful paragons, I think half-dragons at LA +3 deserve it. For the prestige class, I was disappointed to find that there is no prestige class that makes half-dragons more like dragons (not even in the Draconominominominomicon). So I went with Enlightened Fist, being a PrC about combining unarmored fighting, magic, and special abilities. It also grants SR, a draconic ability. HALF-DRAGON PARAGON (Dragon) Alignment: As draconic parent. HD: d12. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spellcasting 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Skill bonus, natural armor bonus -- 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Breath weapon 3/day +1 level of sorcerer 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (Con +2) +1 level of sorcerer 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Wings -- 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Ability boost (Cha +2) +1 level of sorcererClass Skills The half-dragon paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (any) (Int), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha). The half-dragon paragon gains additional class skills based on her dragon type: Black: Hide (Dex), Move Silently (Dex), and Swim (Str). Blue: Bluff (Cha), Hide (Dex), and Spellcraft (Int). Brass: Bluff (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), and Survival (Wis). Bronze: Disguise (Cha), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Copper: Bluff (Cha), Hide (Wis), and Jump (Str). Gold: Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), and Swim (Str) Green: Bluff (Cha), Hide (Dex), and Move Silently (Dex). Red: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), and Jump (Str). Silver: Bluff (Cha), Jump (Str), and Perform (Cha). White: Hide (Dex), Move Silently (Dex), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st level: (6 + Int) x 4 Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int Class Features All of the following are class features of the half-dragon paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Half-dragon paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor. Spellcasting: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a half-dragon paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known) as if she had gained a level in sorcerer. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of half-dragon paragon to her levels in sorcerer, and then determines her known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the half-dragon paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level. If the half-dragon paragon has no levels in sorcerer, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A half-dragon paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for advancing in the sorcerer class normally. Divided Ancestry: A half-dragon paragon has chosen to focus on her draconic nature, and is barred from entering any other racial paragon class. Natural Armor Bonus: A half-dragon paragon's natural armor bonus increases by +1. Skill Bonus: A half-dragon paragon gains a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks. Breath Weapon (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a half-dragon paragon may use her innate breath weapon three times per day (but only once every 1d4 rounds). Wings: At 4th level, a half-dragon paragon grows draconic wings. This grants her a fly speed equal to double her land speed (average maneuverability). If the half-dragon paragon already has wings, her maneuverability class increases by one degree. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a half-dragon paragon increases her racial bonus to Constitution by +2. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Charisma likewise. Draconic Prestige: A 5th-level half-dragon paragon can qualify to become an Enlightened Fist without meeting all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist. Abilities that affect the half-dragon paragon's unarmed strike also affect her claw and bite attacks. If the half-dragon paragon does not possess the Stunning Fist feat, she may expend uses of her breath weapon to power class abilities normally dependent on stunning fist attempts. ________________________________________ ___ As requested, here is a Hobgoblin paragon. Fairly standard. Improvements to all racial abilities. Favored enemy (elves) since they're mentioned as going out of their way to hunt them. 4th level is Powerful Build, since hobgoblins already push the envelope in terms of Medium size, and their flavor text mentions that the leaders are always the largest and strongest. Enjoy. HOBGOBLIN PARAGON (Hobgoblin) Alignment: Any lawful. HD: d10. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Racial enemy (elves), weapon focus (longsword or javelin) 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Improved darkvision (+30 ft.), increased natural armor, skill bonus 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Ability boost (Str +2) 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Powerful build 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Ability boost (Con +2)Class Skills The hobgoblin paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the hobgoblin paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hobgoblin paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; with light, medium, and heavy armor; and with shields, except tower shields. Racial Enemy: A hobgoblin paragon gains humanoids (elves) as a favored racial enemy. This is identical to a ranger’s favored enemy (see the Player’s Handbook). If the hobgoblin paragon has occasion to improve her favored enemy abilities, through feats or the ranger class, for example, she may apply these improvements to her favored racial enemy instead. Weapon Focus: A hobgoblin paragon gains a bonus Weapon Focus feat. This feat must apply to the longsword or javelin. Improved Darkvision (Ex): At 2nd level, a hobgoblin paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Increased Natural Armor: At 2nd level, a hobgoblin paragon's natural armor bonus increases by +1. Skill Bonus: At 2nd level, a hobgoblin paragon's racial bonus to Move Silently checks improves to +8. Ability boost: At 3rd level, a hobgoblin paragon increases her racial bonus to Strength by +2. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Constitution likewise. Powerful Build: By 4th level, the physical stature of a hobgoblin paragon lets her function in many ways as if she were one size category larger. Whenever the hobgoblin paragon is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), she is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to her. The hobgoblin paragon is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect her. The hobgoblin paragon can now use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, her space and reach remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this class feature stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. Hobgoblin Prestige: TBA ________________________________________ ___ Enjoy. KOBOLD PARAGON (Kobold) Alignment: Any nongood. HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spellcasting 1st +0 +0 +2 +1 Daylight adaptation, skill bonus, -- stonecunning 2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 Racial enemy (gnomes), +1 sorcerer level improved darkvision 3rd +2 +1 +3 +2 Ability boost (Cha +2) +1 sorcerer level 4th +3 +1 +4 +2 Wolfpack -- 5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Ability boost (Dex +2) +1 sorcerer levelClass Skills The kobold paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the kobold paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Kobold paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor and bucklers. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a kobold paragon gains new spells per day and spells known as if she had gained a level in sorcerer. The paragon does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that the character adds these levels of kobold paragon to the levels in sorcerer, and then determines known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the kobold paragon adds her entire class level to any levels in the spellcasting class to determine caster level. If the kobold paragon has no levels in sorcerer, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A kobold paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the sorcerer class normally. Daylight Adaptation: A kobold paragon gains the Daylight Adaptation feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Skill Bonus: A kobold paragon's racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks increases to +4. Stonecunning: Kobold paragons gain a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A kobold paragon who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if she were actively searching, and a kobold paragon can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. She can also intuit depth, sensing her approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. Racial Enemy: At 2nd level, a kobold paragon’s ability to battle gnomes increases. This is identical to a ranger’s favored enemy (see the Player’s Handbook). If the kobold paragon has occasion to improve her favored enemy abilities, through feats or the ranger class, for example, she may apply these improvements to her racial enemy instead. Improved Darkvision: At 2nd level, a kobold paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a kobold paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Charisma. At 5th level, the kobold paragon increases her racial bonus to Dexterity by +2. Wolfpack: At 4th level, a kobold paragon gains the Wolfpack tactical feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Kobold Presitge: TBA. ________________________________________ ___ After creating a revised Half-Orc race, the question came up of “why is the half-orc way better than the orc?” Thus reminding me that the orc race, though not a “PC” race, is pitifully underpowered as well. Since I was never really satisfied with the half-orc paragon I created, I decided to rewrite the orc stuff, to give me a better idea of there to take the half-breed. In redoing the orc race, I decided to change the image of orcs somewhat. I tried to make the race more respectable. The D&D orc is based on the Lord of the Rings orc—a wannabe elf that’s far weaker and, well, pretty pathetic. I moved the racial identity more towards the orcs of Warcraft—making it a wild yet noble race, mighty in battle and closer to the natural world. ORCS - +4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. An orc's Intelligence is always at least 3. If this adjustment would lower the character's score to 1 or 2, her score is nevertheless 3. - Medium: As Medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. - Orc land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and orcs can function just fine with no light at all. - Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight and within the radius of a daylight spell. - Weapon Familiarity: Orcs may treat battleaxes as simple weapons, rather than martial weapons; and orcish double-axes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons. - +2 racial bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and effects. - +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class. - +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks. - +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks. - Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Undercommon. - Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass orc’s barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Okay, with the race completed, it was time to make the racial paragon. I pretty much made this one from scratch, since no orc racial paragon was 100% appropriate as a basis for this race. I added some of the abilities originally given to half-orcs, as well as several new ones. I based this class very loosely on the Elf Paragon, and then redid the Half-Orc Paragon based on its Half-Elven counterpart. ORC PARAGON (Orc) Alignment: Any evil. HD: d12. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +1 Daylight adaptation, keen senses, rage 1/day 2nd +2 +3 +0 +2 Natural armor bonus, scent 3rd +3 +3 +1 +2 Ability boost (Con +2) 4th +4 +4 +1 +2 Improved darkvision, weapon focus 5th +5 +4 +1 +3 Ability boost (Str +2)Class Skills The orc paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (military tactics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the orc paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Orc paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons; with light, medium, and heavy armor; and with shields (except tower shields). Daylight Adaptation (Ex): At 1st level, an orc paragon is no longer dazzled in bright sunlight or the radius of a daylight spell. Keen Senses (Ex): At 1st level, an orc paragon’s racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks increase by +2. Rage (Ex): Once per day, an orc paragon can unleash her natural ferocity in the form of a battle frenzy. This is identical to a barbarian's rage (see the Player's Handbook). If the orc paragon has improved rage abilities (such as the barbarian's class features of greater rage, tireless rage, indomitable will, or mighty rage), these improvements apply to the rage ability granted by the orc paragon class as well. Natural Armor Bonus: At 2nd level, an orc paragon's natural armor bonus increases by +1. Scent (Ex): At 2nd level, an orc paragon's senses sharpen, and she gains the scent ability. Ability boost: At 3rd level, an orc paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Constitution. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Strength by +2. Improved Darkvision (Ex): At 4th level, an orc paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Weapon Focus: At 4th level, an orc paragon gains a bonus Weapon Focus feat. This feat must apply to the battleaxe, greataxe, or orcish double-axe. Orc Prestige: A 5th-level orc paragon may qualify to enter the Eye of Gruumsh prestige class even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisite: base attack bonus +6. Orc paragons also tend to favor the Orc Warlord prestige class.
DaTedinator 06-03-04, 11:38 PM	I like this! Very nice way to pull it off. You get two (2) points. Just one thing... Am I missing something, or are the spellcasting Human Paragon and the non-spellcasting Human Paragon exactly the same (except for the spellcasting)?
RoastSlinky 06-04-04, 05:11 AM	Very cool, but what's up with the Human Paragon spellcasting/noncasting? The half elf's class skills are noted as elf.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-04-04, 09:09 AM	Originally posted by DaTedinator I like this! Very nice way to pull it off. You get two (2) points. Just one thing... Am I missing something, or are the spellcasting Human Paragon and the non-spellcasting Human Paragon exactly the same (except for the spellcasting)? The non-spellcaster has a full BAB and a d10 HD (the spellcaster has a 3/4 BAB and a d8 HD). I'm toying with also giving him all good saves, but it looks balanced enough as is presently.
DaTedinator 06-04-04, 11:35 AM	Heh heh... Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +1 +1 +1 Adaptive learning, skill focus 2nd +1 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat 3rd +2 +2 +2 +2 Ability boost (+2) 4th +3 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat 5th +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (+2) Quoted from the non-spellcasting version...:rolleyes:
Jaerom Darkwind 06-04-04, 11:55 AM	Oops. Fixed.
God of Slivers 06-04-04, 01:43 PM	Very nice. Although I am not a fan of medium saves I like what you did with the paragon races. I'm looking to build a three (maybe five now) level paragon class for an aranea and you seem to know what you are doing. Any suggestions?
RoastSlinky 06-05-04, 03:40 AM	Are you going rework the Tiefling? BTW, will you ever redo your Zealot?
Jaerom Darkwind 06-05-04, 10:00 AM	Originally posted by God of Slivers Very nice. Although I am not a fan of medium saves I like what you did with the paragon races. I'm looking to build a three (maybe five now) level paragon class for an aranea and you seem to know what you are doing. Any suggestions? Aranea? I wasn't aware that was a PC class. Well, it's +4 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Int, +2 Wiz, +4 Cha. A lot of racial bonuses (also gets +2 to 3 skills, and +10 to climb). I'd say 3/4 BAB, all good saves, d10 HD, 2+int mod skill points, and sorcerer bonuses at 2, 3, and 5 (CL increses every level, as normal). Bonus to Con at 3 and Cha at 5. Other possible abilities (with funny names): - Spider Reflexes: Increase Jump and Climb bonus by +2, and doesn't lose Dex bonus to AC while climbing or give attacker a +2 bonus to hit. - Spider Senses: Increase bonuses on Listen and Spot by +2. - Web Slinger: Can use Web an number of additional times per day equal to Con modifier. - Improved Darkvision: Darkvision up to 90 feet. So, essentially like this: Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +2 +2 +2 Spider reflexes, spider senses -- 2nd +1 +3 +3 +3 Improved darkvision +1 level of sorcerer 3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 Ability boost (Con +2) +1 level of sorcerer 4th +3 +4 +4 +4 Web-slinger -- 5th +3 +4 +4 +4 Ability boost (Cha +2) +1 level of sorcerer Needs something else at 4t level, I think, but I don't know what. Originally posted by RoastSlinky Are you going rework the Tiefling? BTW, will you ever redo your Zealot? Teifling's on my list, as soon as I get my UA back. And the zealot's on the back-burner at the moment, mostly because my paladin is no longer easily convertable to Law or Chaos.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-05-04, 11:21 AM	Changed the low-magic human to d8 HD and good saves, after discussion at DF.
God of Slivers 06-05-04, 03:57 PM	Thanks. That doesnt look too bad. Although some of the abilities are a little redundant. i.e. creatures with climb speeds already keep their dex to ac while climbing.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-05-04, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by God of Slivers Thanks. That doesnt look too bad. Although some of the abilities are a little redundant. i.e. creatures with climb speeds already keep their dex to ac while climbing. Yeah, this was just off the top of my head, I forgot about the climbing thing. It should still be fine. You still need to create something for 4th level, since I can't think of anything else to improve. If these things are common in your world, there should be some cultural thing you can enhance, I imagine. You might give a minor ability at 2, too.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-10-04, 08:40 PM	Teifling's up.
DaTedinator 06-11-04, 08:18 PM	Idea for Teifling Prestige: Shadowdancer?
Jaerom Darkwind 06-12-04, 11:01 AM	Originally posted by DaTedinator Idea for Teifling Prestige: Shadowdancer? Could be, but what feat should be dumped?
McBard 06-12-04, 12:26 PM	Nice work, Jaerom. One question: is your aasimar paragon based upon a +1 LA aaismar? If so, have you thought about spreading some of these abilities into the 1st level of your pargon class, so that the base racial abilities of the aasimar are no longer +1 LA? [this sort of "base" aasimar is provided somewhere on Wotc's site, but I can't remember where off the top of my head]. I'm hoping the trend in future (4th edition !:) is to do away with LA's, and instead provide racial paragon levels instead.
ateve 06-12-04, 07:25 PM	This stuff looks great, but why do the orcs and half-orcs get a bonus to craft(alchemy) ? I've never seen orcs that are much into potions and the like. -ateve, the Mighty Mouse
DaTedinator 06-12-04, 08:11 PM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind Could be, but what feat should be dumped? I think mobility. I see the Paragon of Teiflings be more eager to get underhanded blows in (combat reflexes) than to be avoiding underhanded blows (mobility). IMO, at least.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-14-04, 09:38 PM	Originally posted by ateve This stuff looks great, but why do the orcs and half-orcs get a bonus to craft(alchemy) ? I've never seen orcs that are much into potions and the like. -ateve, the Mighty Mouse It's the same ability gnomes get-- it has to do with having a sensitive nose and other senses. Originally posted by DaTedinator I think mobility. I see the Paragon of Teiflings be more eager to get underhanded blows in (combat reflexes) than to be avoiding underhanded blows (mobility). IMO, at least. I'm still thinking on this, so no updates yet.
Skaboozh 06-15-04, 01:34 AM	Just wanted to say I absolutely love these classes. I'm starting in a new campaign and have been having trouble figuring out which of the many paths I want my human to go down. Your 5 level paragon has made me choose to start down all the paths, and let the game decide which one I branch out into. Perfect. Great work.
bahamut_0 06-15-04, 04:42 PM	Whoa, these classes are great, very nice work.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-15-04, 05:17 PM	Originally posted by McBard Nice work, Jaerom. One question: is your aasimar paragon based upon a +1 LA aaismar? If so, have you thought about spreading some of these abilities into the 1st level of your pargon class, so that the base racial abilities of the aasimar are no longer +1 LA? [this sort of "base" aasimar is provided somewhere on Wotc's site, but I can't remember where off the top of my head]. I'm hoping the trend in future (4th edition !:) is to do away with LA's, and instead provide racial paragon levels instead. Well, I linked the paragon to the "racial" level publishged in Savage Progressions, so interested players could see both, but I'd be hesitant to try to make a paragon class that dumps the ECL. That's beyond the scope of paragon classes as they have been laid out. Perhaps the UA rules of ECL buying would work for your idea, in conjunction with the Aasimar Paragon.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-18-04, 10:15 AM	Dude, no offence but this are craked. I mean, no sane DM would never ever let some one run this. If you make one of this it's pretty much a trophie character.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-18-04, 10:46 AM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond Dude, no offence but this are craked. I mean, no sane DM would never ever let some one run this. If you make one of this it's pretty much a trophie character. How so?
Quarion Silverfrond 06-18-04, 12:33 PM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind How so? They Are to Strong.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-18-04, 03:30 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond They Are to Strong. Well, the pattern for higher levels was set by UA. I only concerned myself with the first level, where they were too weak. I consider them balanced against the core classes at 1st level (and that was my focus all along), and the other levels worked out how they would, as Andy Collins wrote them. Perhaps you think that the bonuses they get at levels 3-5 a bit much, but remember that for the most part their BAB is medium or low, and their HD only a d8. They only have 5 levels, so they can't have an epic progression. Spellcasting, if they have it, is only 3 CLs in 5 levels, meaning that it's not worth nearly as mucyh as an actual spellcasting class, especially at epic. A problem a lot of people have when considering class balance is thinking that a classes power is exactly equal to the sum of its parts. They don't consider synergies or the lack thereof. In this case, the classes recieve a lot of abilities, yes, but the overall power of said abilities is minimal, and in many cases they develop a number of unrelated, and therefor unstacking, abilities that serve to create more rounded, but less focused and therefore less powerful, characters. When all you focus on is numerical balancing, you get the Bard-- matching up quite necely in terms of abilities, but not so in actual play.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-21-04, 06:54 PM	You have all this great stuff in to little of an area. Spread it out more. Make them at least nine levels, and have stuff that doesn't work right away.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-21-04, 06:57 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond ...and have stuff that doesn't work right away. :confused: Elaborate, please.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-21-04, 07:01 PM	An elf paragons spells, With your class theres no point in becoming a wizard. And it's Elven Prestige Should make it take Wizard levels. But i do have to admit "Grace" is a good idea.
Kapawww!! 06-22-04, 02:09 AM	These look really cool. Very well done. good job! :D I really like the idea of being able to go into a prestige class afterward. ...are you going to make others? [if I'm not mistaken, there were more in UA]
Jaerom Darkwind 06-22-04, 05:40 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond An elf paragons spells, With your class theres no point in becoming a wizard. And it's Elven Prestige Should make it take Wizard levels. But i do have to admit "Grace" is a good idea. Once again, I'm mystified. Wizard levels grant full spellcasting. Paragon levels grant 3 spellcasting levels over 5 class levels. Wizard is obviously superior. As to Elven Prestige, what part of "prestige" didn't you understand? :rolleyes: There are no prereqs for Wizard, and hence no need for a class feature. And Wizard is nothing like the Elf Paragon to begin with. I think that the fact that a character who takes 5 levels in this class, and has been working towards Bladesinger since level 1, is able to enter at level 6 is hardly unbalancing. It requires all 5 levels, and only waives the requirements that can't be met. Meaning that the Elf Paragon can enter, but will still be at a disadvantage BAB-wise compared to other Bladesingers, and won't have the Dodge feat. Is it that overpowered?
Jaerom Darkwind 06-22-04, 07:08 PM	Originally posted by Kapawww!! These look really cool. Very well done. good job! :D I really like the idea of being able to go into a prestige class afterward. ...are you going to make others? [if I'm not mistaken, there were more in UA] Others are on the way. I'm taking requests, currently. THe Genasi races will be up soon.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-23-04, 01:19 PM	The point to a prestige class is to work and meet the prerequaites. It's no fun getting one without working a little at it. Your pargon class lets you take it with little effort I printed you class out and showed it to my DM. He said there was no way he whould let me run one nor whuould any sane DM. I looked at it and it's got good stuff, I have to admit, but you have it accesable with little effort. I went back and revised, called it a Greater Elf Paragon. Gave it another four levels and spread the abillaties out across those levels. But I also balanced somethings out Elven prestige lets you take three levels in Bladsinger for every level of wizard you have but it still bypasses some of the requierments. You get more spell casting but only if you have levels in wizard. The thing is a paragon is supposed to a race with there favord class but your throws the favord class away. Just sit down and read threw your paragons you'll see what I mean.
RoastSlinky 06-23-04, 11:24 PM	Compare each class to the first 5 levels of paladin. Or barbarian. Or monk. Or rogue. Do they look overpowered now? They have just as much as those classes do in the first 5 levels. If they were spread out over 9 levels, they would be underpowered and no sane player would use them except for flavor reasons. Why does your DM think that getting into a prestige class at 6th level slightly easier is overpowered? Sanity is defined by the majority, and the majority do not seem to think of this class as overpowered.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-24-04, 06:34 PM	Yes well you look at them to They are also palenced out some how. This have 5 levels of great stuff with no balance.
keyunp 06-24-04, 07:44 PM	I like them so much that I will be treating the 5 levels of Elf as what the typical elf learns growing up. I have 3 players who are all playing elves that grew up in the same villiage, so everything will stay balanced. In some cases I will be treating them as 6th level, and other as 1st level. Overall the are very 'Good'. It all really depends on what kind of game you like playing. We play to have "fun". Two of the players are not very good at callanges, so I can deal with whatever powers they have.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-28-04, 06:21 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond The point to a prestige class is to work and meet the prerequaites. It's no fun getting one without working a little at it. Your pargon class lets you take it with little effort I printed you class out and showed it to my DM. He said there was no way he whould let me run one nor whuould any sane DM. I looked at it and it's got good stuff, I have to admit, but you have it accesable with little effort. I went back and revised, called it a Greater Elf Paragon. Gave it another four levels and spread the abillaties out across those levels. But I also balanced somethings out Elven prestige lets you take three levels in Bladsinger for every level of wizard you have but it still bypasses some of the requierments. You get more spell casting but only if you have levels in wizard. The thing is a paragon is supposed to a race with there favord class but your throws the favord class away. Just sit down and read threw your paragons you'll see what I mean. Once again, I don't understand, clean up the grammer and punctuation, please.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-28-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind Once again, I don't understand, clean up the grammer and punctuation, please. sorry, my grammer is crap. What i was saying is that its no fun taking a prestige class but i want to retract that, because I looked at it after i revised it and it. Its just a we bit better then more balanced and makes you better with the wizard. Because that is the point of a paragon. To make them better for ther favared class. Please excuss any misspelling in the above post.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-28-04, 08:17 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond sorry, my grammer is crap. What i was saying is that its no fun taking a prestige class but i want to retract that, because I looked at it after i revised it and it. Its just a we bit better then more balanced and makes you better with the wizard. Because that is the point of a paragon. To make them better for ther favared class. I'd just like to state once again that I don't see the point as making you better with your favored class-- rather the point is to make you better at your racial steriotype, which may or may not include the favored class. I mean really, how much does the dwarf paragon have to do with the fighter class, for example? In this case, the elven steriotype is a fighter-mage, not a straight wizard. Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond Please excuss any misspelling in the above post. Not a problem.
Quarion Silverfrond 06-29-04, 01:29 PM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind I'd just like to state once again that I don't see the point as making you better with your favored class-- rather the point is to make you better at your racial steriotype, which may or may not include the favored class. I mean really, how much does the dwarf paragon have to do with the fighter class, for example? In this case, the elven steriotype is a fighter-mage, not a straight wizard. The thing is thou, most of the time a favored class has to do with the racial steriotype, off of elves for a minute, half orc barbarians or halfling rogues, or the human haveing any favored class.
Jaerom Darkwind 07-01-04, 05:58 PM	Originally posted by Quarion Silverfrond The thing is thou, most of the time a favored class has to do with the racial steriotype, off of elves for a minute, half orc barbarians or halfling rogues, or the human haveing any favored class. I dissagree. Half-orcs will not be considered, since they shouldn't even have a favored class (WotC is obviously racist against half-orcs-- half-elves get so many perks over them). Halfling's have rogue, but their class improves their racial bonuses on skills that are only kind of roguish, and gives a +2 to rosk throwing-- not roguish at all. Dwarves don't get anthing even related to Fighters. Spellcasting is always based on favored class. Abilities are usually improvements on racial abilities (skill bonuses, vision stuff, etc.), with additions based on racial steriotype.
seu_madruga 07-04-04, 11:01 PM	Jaerom Darkwind, I really enjoyed your work with these paragon classes; this concept of "the best the race has to offer" is very interesting and quite flavouring... I only disagree with your prestige options... lowering the requisites for some Prestige Classes would somehow diminish them, making the access easier (IMHO). and this format you invented, with five levels, is quite appropriate; having only three levels, the original classes could not encompass all the best features of a race... but you took out the "divided ancestry", "monstrous mien", et cetera... could you tell us why? and how about making a half-dragon paragon, as we have in UA? And, most challenging... Githzerai and Githianki? cheers, keep this good work :)
roll8dn 07-05-04, 02:21 AM	Thank you for putting these up here. Once I finish my FR campaign (in about six to eight months, probably....), I will try my hand at creating my first hombrewed world, and you just gave me a reason to balance the "older" races (dwarves, elves) against the "younger" races (humans, halflings). I can now just give the average elf commoner or warrior 3 to 5 levels in paragon, and it will explain why the elven communities (being so much smaller than the human or orc communities) survive against overwhealming odds. Same for the dwarven communities. Thanks, man.
Jaerom Darkwind 07-05-04, 03:58 PM	Originally posted by seu_madruga Jaerom Darkwind, I really enjoyed your work with these paragon classes; this concept of "the best the race has to offer" is very interesting and quite flavouring... I only disagree with your prestige options... lowering the requisites for some Prestige Classes would somehow diminish them, making the access easier (IMHO). and this format you invented, with five levels, is quite appropriate; having only three levels, the original classes could not encompass all the best features of a race... but you took out the "divided ancestry", "monstrous mien", et cetera... could you tell us why? and how about making a half-dragon paragon, as we have in UA? And, most challenging... Githzerai and Githianki? cheers, keep this good work :) Okay, all flavor and story concerns aside, Racial Prestige's functional purpose is to allow a character who enters the paragon class at level 1 to enter the "Paragon Prestige Class" at level 6-- thus never having to putter about in normal classes. In this way, the transition becomes smooth and seamless. They must devote all of their training and resources from level 1 to entering the PrC, but if they do so, at level 5 the paragon class makes up the difference, allowing entry at level 6. For example, take an elven paragon. At level 5, he's a spellcaster who's very good with a sword, the ideal elven warrior. But what is he going to do now? His BAB is too low to qualify him for fighter PrCs, his caster level is too low to qualify him for spellcaster PrCs, and so he's stuck. The class that best reresents what he is striving to become is bladesinger, the elven mage-warrior class. Bladesinger requires 4 feats, including Weapon Focus, but elves only get their 1st and 3rd level feats, and the free WF feat granted by the class. It also requires BAB +5, but Elf Paragon has a medium BAB. So, assuming he goes for all 5 levels, the 5th level includes a little nudge to get him on track. He skips Dodge, because Grace is already the same only better, and he skips the BAB requirement, and he's in. He's still got to get the other prereqs normally, but if he chooses to do so, he can continue his career path without any hindrance. Dwarven Prestige is similar-- they skip Iron Will because they've got a good Will save, and they skip the BAB because there's no way to get +7 in 5 levels. But Dwarven Defender epitomizes the race. In short, Racial Prestige doesn't "lower" the prereqs-- you've still got to work your tail off to fill them, devoting every feat and skill point to it. It just makes qualifying possible. As to Divided Ancestry, I dropped it because it flatly contradicts the flavor text, which says that they meld both aspects of their heritage in one, by requiring them to choose one half and emphasize it. In this case, I prefer the flavor text over the mechanics, so I changed the mechanics. And Monstrous Mein was dropped because I revised the race and they now get a racial bonus on Intimidate checks. There was no room in the new class to fit in an additional bonus, and in any case, I wanted to get away from the whole "Orcs = stupid slobbering monsters" thing. My Orcs are far more respectable, more Warcraft than Tolkein. More Paragons are on the way, don't worry, though I can't say when. Originally posted by roll8dn Thank you for putting these up here. Once I finish my FR campaign (in about six to eight months, probably....), I will try my hand at creating my first hombrewed world, and you just gave me a reason to balance the "older" races (dwarves, elves) against the "younger" races (humans, halflings). I can now just give the average elf commoner or warrior 3 to 5 levels in paragon, and it will explain why the elven communities (being so much smaller than the human or orc communities) survive against overwhealming odds. Same for the dwarven communities. Thanks, man. No problem. That's actually one of the primary applications I imagined for these classes-- making better races without changing the races themselves.
Senko 07-06-04, 06:59 AM	Personally if your planning on doing more paragon classes at some point I wouldn't mind seeing your take on some of the oriental book creatures paragon classes such as the Hengeyoki (my personal favorite, like playing either fox or cat).
Jaerom Darkwind 07-06-04, 07:05 PM	Next on my list are the Genasi, and maybe the Duergar. After that, I'll probably do the Half-Dragon and Hengeyoki, which have also been requested.
Senko 07-07-04, 12:55 AM	Ahhh gooodie I'll wait till you post them then.
Szatany 07-11-04, 06:47 AM	Since you are taking requests, how about drow? Please ? :)
Bartleby_GoC 09-02-04, 10:22 AM	Overall, really nice. I do have a couple questions that would have to be answered before I would allow them in my games. This may be covered in UA, but I have very limited access to it. Do the two +2 ability bonuses replace the normal +1 bonus/4 levels? Taking the first three levels of the paragon, then a 4th of anything else would produce an ability boost of +3. The best way I can think to deal with this (at the moment, at least) would be to have paragon levels not count towards the +1/4 levels thing. So, a Clr4/Elf5 would only get one of the normal +1 bonuses. You appear to have done this in your explanations, but not within the class info. You state, for example, that Elven Grace is better than dodge, so it fills the requirement. Is there a reason you didn't add something like "Elven Grace replaced Dodge for the purposed of feat and PrC prereqs"? It looks like most of the removed requirements are already covered by paragon abilities, although I would give Gnomes Disable Device as an in-class. Also, there should still be a requirement that at least one rank has been spent on any requirement skills, with the actual requirement being no more than two ranks higher. That wasn't too clear... If the PrC requires 6 ranks in a skill, the paragon must have at least 4. In all the PrCs I've seen, the skill rank requirements were the easiest to fill. The second was more of a minor quibble, but the ability thing seems a little too easy to abuse. Bartleby
Jaerom Darkwind 09-02-04, 01:49 PM	Overall, really nice. I do have a couple questions that would have to be answered before I would allow them in my games. This may be covered in UA, but I have very limited access to it. Do the two +2 ability bonuses replace the normal +1 bonus/4 levels? Taking the first three levels of the paragon, then a 4th of anything else would produce an ability boost of +3. The best way I can think to deal with this (at the moment, at least) would be to have paragon levels not count towards the +1/4 levels thing. So, a Clr4/Elf5 would only get one of the normal +1 bonuses.The ability bonuses are in addition to the normal boost everyone gets every 4 levels, just as the bonus feats are in addition to the feat everyone gets every 3 levels. It's not as abusive as you might think. You appear to have done this in your explanations, but not within the class info. You state, for example, that Elven Grace is better than dodge, so it fills the requirement. Is there a reason you didn't add something like "Elven Grace replaced Dodge for the purposed of feat and PrC prereqs"? It looks like most of the removed requirements are already covered by paragon abilities, although I would give Gnomes Disable Device as an in-class. Also, there should still be a requirement that at least one rank has been spent on any requirement skills, with the actual requirement being no more than two ranks higher. That wasn't too clear... If the PrC requires 6 ranks in a skill, the paragon must have at least 4. In all the PrCs I've seen, the skill rank requirements were the easiest to fill.I didn';t state it because that's not quite how it works. The elf can't ignore Dodge as a prereq for anything else besides the Bladesinger. If she wants Spring Attack, she'd do well to take Dodge at level 6. IIRC, all of the racial prestige benefits are represented in come way in the paragon class. In the case of skill ranks, it always removes all ranks in the listed skill from the prereq--never just a few, or half. Artificer requires 2 ranks in Disable Device, 3 ranks in Craft (alchemy), and a whole pile of other skills. Gnomes get to ignore those two (a small bonus, just because I couldn't think of anything else to give them).
CaoSlayer 09-03-04, 10:53 AM	ummmm, no bad... what about the aasimar/tiefling paragons getting wings in exchange to by example stat bosts and/or resistances? there is some useful feats in Races of Faerun for being more holier unholier for both aasimars and tieflings, one it is extra uses of dark/light and making them harder to counter with the oposite spell. other it is giving spells like doom, bless and cure wounds and finally one that requires the doom/bless one gives wings. About prc. say that they can have better access to divine/demonic prcs
Elrond's Dad 09-09-04, 09:00 PM	Looks good, J_D. I'm fond of the 5-level advancement over the 3-level. Much better.
Lord Welkerfan 09-11-04, 09:17 PM	I believe that Elves should be able to either choose to advance as a Bladesinger or as an Arcane Archer, depending on what they chose their Weapon Focus in. The Arcane Archer is just as arche-typical as the Bladesinger for elves in my opinion. An idea for the Halfling PrC: The Thief-Acrobat. It really represents the Halflings athletic prowess. You could allow them to ignore the Evasion requirement and the Thieve's Guild requirement, and possibly one of the skills.
Jaerom Darkwind 09-11-04, 09:21 PM	I believe that Elves should be able to either choose to advance as a Bladesinger or as an Arcane Archer, depending on what they chose their Weapon Focus in. The Arcane Archer is just as arche-typical as the Bladesinger for elves in my opinion.Well, you could do that in your game. I dislike the elven archer steriotype. It's not how I envision them at all. As written, it emphasizes their swordmastery, which is how I like it. An idea for the Halfling PrC: The Thief-Acrobat. It really represents the Halflings athletic prowess. You could allow them to ignore the Evasion requirement and the Thieve's Guild requirement, and possibly one of the skills.That's a good idea.
Illusion 12-09-04, 04:31 PM	Sorry, bad post. Try the next one.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-09-04, 04:45 PM	Maybe I missed something, but you seem to have just posted my Dwarf Paragon and written "Hengeyoki" at the top.
Illusion 12-09-04, 05:32 PM	This is my first attempt at creating something like this, so please don't yell if I make a mistake. On the other hand constructive criticism is greatly appreciated. HENGEYOKAI PARAGON (Hengeyokai) Alignment: Any HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +1 +2 +0 Animal expertise, low light vision, alter self, alternate form 2nd +1 +2 +3 +0 Efficient Change, fast movement 3rd +2 +2 +3 +1 Ability boost (+2) 4th +3 +2 +4 +1 Efficient Change, superior scent 5th +3 +3 +4 +1 Ability boost (Int +2), Alertness Class Skills The hengeyokai paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the hengeyokai paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hengeyokai paragons are proficient with all simple weapons; and with light armor. Animal Expertise: A hengeyokai paragon adds her class level as a racial bonus to all handle animal checks in human and hybrid form. Low light vision (Ex): At 1st level, a hengyeokai paragon gets low light vision in human form, as well as in hybrid and animal form. Alter self (Sp): At 1st level, a hengeyokai paragon gains the ability to cast alter self once per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her class level. This increases to to 3/day at fourth level. Alternate form (Ex): At 1st, 3rd, and 5th level, a hengeyokai paragon can change shape one additional time each day. This is in addition to the normal increase of one additional change per day per character level. So a 4th level hengeyokai paragon can change shape 7 times a day (once for being a hengeyokai, four times for being a fourth level character, and twice for the increases at first and third level. Efficient change: At 2nd level, a hengeyokai paragon can use its alternate form ability without provoking an attack of opportunity. Later at fifth level a hengeyokai paragon can change shape as a move equivilent action instead of a full round action. Fast movement: At 2nd level, a hengeyokai paragon's speed in hybrid and animal form increases. If the hengeyokai paragon's animal and hybrid form has a movement speed other than a land one (ex. Swim or climb) this movement speed increases by ten feet. If she only has a land speed, she instead increases her base land speed in hybrid and animal form by ten feet. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a hengeyokai paragon gains a +2 racial bonus in all forms to her ability which is increased in hybrid form. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Inteligence by +2. Superior scent (Ex): At 4th level, a hengeyokai paragon gains the scent ability up to a range of 30 ft. If one of the hengyeokai paragon's forms already has the scent ability, the range of that ability increases by 30ft when she is in that form. Alertness: At 5th level, a hengeyokai paragon gains alertness as a bonus feat. Hengeyokai Prestige: A 5th-level hengeyokai paragon may qualify to enter the Shapeshifter prestige class even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisites: Concentration 10 ranks. Edit: removed ride bonus Changed the levels of efficient change to 2 and 5 Added alertness as a bonus feat
Jaerom Darkwind 12-09-04, 06:13 PM	What's the ECL on Hengeyoki again?
Lord Welkerfan 12-09-04, 06:27 PM	As they are humanoids in 3.5, according to the update in Dragon, they have an ECL of +0.
Illusion 12-09-04, 06:55 PM	I wrote this off the hengeyokai in OA, which has the shapechanger type, and is +1 LA.
Senko 12-09-04, 07:31 PM	A few things I felt didn't realy work with the Hengeyoki idea I have or wanted to clarify are as follows. > Class Features > Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hengeyokai paragons are proficient with all > simple weapons; and with light armor. The light armour part of this seemed to me not really apropriate to an animal that assumes human form. They might use it but it doesn't seem to be a natural extension of what they are which is my understanding of what these prestige classes are. > She also gets a +2 racial bonus to all ride checks. Not sure about this one either since most animals don't ride other animals is this an extension of brotherhood of animals? > Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a hengeyokai paragon gains a +2 racial bonus in > all forms to her ability which is increased in hybrid form. At 5th level, she > increases her racial bonus to Inteligence by +2. Not entirely sure about this one are you saying they get a +2 racial bonus in all forms and then another additional +2 in their hybrid ones or that the +2 bonus which was previous only applied in hybrid forms is now present in all forms?
Demon Lightfoot 12-09-04, 07:32 PM	:bow: These look pretty dang good. What crimes would I have to commit to see your take on Hobgoblin and Kobold Paragons? :plotting: :evillaugh
Jaerom Darkwind 12-09-04, 07:44 PM	Talk to me in two weeks.
Demon Lightfoot 12-09-04, 07:48 PM	Talk to me in two weeks. :cool: Bookmarked. :D
Illusion 12-09-04, 10:18 PM	Senko: I have always envisioned hengeyokai as a light armor wearing people, hence the proficiency. But what if I changed it to only hide, leather, and studded leather armor? I dont want to compleatly remove armor profinciency but I could if you convinced me. When I was thinking about skill bonuses for the hengeyokai, all I could come up with were bonuses to animal relation abilities. The ride bonus comes from my belief that because of their affinity for animals, hengeyokai paragons can relate better to mounts which equals a bonus to ride checks. I could be convinced otherwise, but what else is there for skill bonuses? spot and listen? The ability boost at 3rd level is to the ability the hengeyokai gets in hybrid form (ex. dex for sparrow, or con for dog). This bonus applies to all of the hengeyokai's forms. Jaerom Darkwind: I just realized that I sort of highjacked your thread. Do you want me to move my posts to a new thread, or will you add them to your updated paragons?
Arcane Guyver 12-09-04, 11:59 PM	Very cool. I'm definitely going to use this in my next campaign. Before that I gotta some how come up with paragons for Bugbears, Changelings, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Kalashtar, Shifters & Warforged though. :weep:
Senko 12-10-04, 12:12 AM	> I have always envisioned hengeyokai as a light armor wearing people, > hence the proficiency. But what if I changed it to only hide, leather, and > studded leather armor? I dont want to compleatly remove armor > profinciency but I could if you convinced me. Ahh I see that explains it I have the image of Hengeyoki as intelligent shapechanging animals who only assume human form to infilitrate or manipulate the other sentien species for either good or ill but mainly to protect their lands. To this end although some might wear armour most of them wont because they spend most of their time as animals. I could see a natural armour bonus like a monk gets though but not armour and the manufacturing capacity to produce it especially as they spend most of their time in animal form. > When I was thinking about skill bonuses for the hengeyokai, all I could > come up with were bonuses to animal relation abilities. The ride bonus > comes from my belief that because of their affinity for animals, hengeyokai > paragons can relate better to mounts which equals a bonus to ride checks. > I could be convinced otherwise, but what else is there for skill bonuses? > spot and listen? I'd certainly agree with spot and check and the animal bonuses does make sense although ride is stretching it I can accept that. > The ability boost at 3rd level is to the ability the hengeyokai gets in hybrid > form (ex. dex for sparrow, or con for dog). This bonus applies to all of the > hengeyokai's forms. I see so its the same boost applied to all the abilities then thanks.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-10-04, 05:12 AM	When I get a chance to really look through it, I'll either add it to the list or throw you out, don't worry ;)
Illusion 12-10-04, 07:24 PM	Made a couple of changes to the hegeyokai paragon. Does anyone else think that the halfling paragon is under powered? Maybe it's just me. :allalone:
strenoth 12-10-04, 08:36 PM	Hey, a vote here for the drow one as well! I've got a frined who's playing a drow now, so i'd like to see this class so I cna decide if I want to offer it to him.
Illusion 12-12-04, 06:37 PM	Just so as to not clog up this thread, I gave the hengeyokai paragon its own thread here (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5035510#post5035510) . Please direct all comments on the hengeyokai paragon to that thread.
DaTedinator 12-15-04, 10:57 PM	Hey, I came up with a Changling (from Eberron) Paragon a while back. It's probably overpowered, but I'm terrible at balancing things, so... yeah. Here goes. CHANGLING PARAGON (Changling) Alignment: Any. HD: d6. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special _ 1st +0 +1 +1 +1 Improved shifting I 2nd +1 +2 +2 +2 Skill focus 3rd +2 +2 +2 +2 Improved Shifting II 4th +3 +2 +2 +2 Charisma boost (+2) 5th +3 +3 +3 +3 Improved Shifting III Class Skills The Changling Paragon’s class skills (and the key ability modifier for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the changling paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Changling paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, with light armor, and with bucklers. Improved Shifting I (Ex): At 1st level, a changling paragon can alter his form as a free action. In addition, the changling paragon can create a sort of chameleon effect, giving a +2 racial bonus on hide checks. Skill Focus: At 2nd level, a changling paragon gains a bonus Skill Focus feat. This feat must apply to either Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate, or Sense Motive. Improved Shifting II (Ex): At 2nd level, a changling paragon can alter his form enough to change his size one step, to either small or large. While small, the changling suffers a –2 penalty to strength. While large, the changling suffers a –2 penalty to dexterity. Also, the changling can grant itself reach while either medium or large by taking a –1 penalty to AC and a –2 penalty to Dexterity. In addition, this gives the changling paragon the ability to alter her form enough to gaina +2 racial bonus on Escape Artist and Move Silently checks. Charisma Boost: At 4th level, the changling paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Charisma. Improved Shifting III (Ex): At 5th level, a changling paragon has mastered his additional abilities. Any penalty for shifting is reduced by half (round up), and any bonus to skills granted by shifting is multiplied by 1.5 (including the +10 bonus to Disguise) Changling Prestige: A 5th-level changling paragon may qualify to enter the Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) prestige class even if she doesn't meet all of the prerequisites. She can ignore the following prerequisites: Able Learner, Spellcraft 4 ranks. I kinda went against the template, but I think it's ok. Then again, remember that I'm bad at balancing, so it probably needs work.
thugpoetry 12-27-04, 02:17 PM	This is a great idea. I like 5 levels and some of the other ideas that came around. But I have to say that they are way overpowered. Compare it with the first five levels in ANY class...and, yeah, the way they are now, the paragon classes are way overpowered. There's no reason to play anything else for the first five levels. Usually better skills, usually a comparable BAB, better saves, better abilities. I balance things off of the fighter. ESPECIALLY in the first few levels. If these were high level PrC's then I'd be able to see this level of power. But I can't see it as is. However, they are great ideas, and I'm reworking them for my current campaign. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for me! I realize that power levels in campaigns vary. If you and yours find these classes fit your power level, then enjoy!! Me and mine, they don't. So I'm working on it. Jaerom Darkwind, if you want, I'll either PM or post my revised versions for lower power curved campaigns. :) I'm only doing the cores, though. And not the half-orc or gnome right now, but that's for campaign specific reasons. :) Great work, overall. Thank ya!
Jaerom Darkwind 12-27-04, 06:25 PM	Compare them to the barbarian or paladin for a better idea of actual balance. The fighter is the very bottom rung on the class-balance ladder.
Chosen of Bane 12-28-04, 10:48 AM	Jaerom Darkwind Fantastic job on all of these. I always wondered why they were only 3 levels in UA. I do have a slight issue with the two versions of Human Paragon. The non-casting human paragon seems as good or superior in every way to the fighter. Hit Die..........check BAB..............check Bonus Feats...check Saves...........check Plus the ability boosts. I'm wondering why someone would take levels in fighter? I have a player in my upcoming campaign that has expressed interest in this build. I have no doubt he will go Fighter 4/Paragon 5. That build is far better than Fighter 9. I was wondering, do you think the 3/4 BAB and d8 would be a good enough balance. Losing that BAB and one hit point a level seems appropriate to balance out the ability boost benefits. I realize you say look to the first five levels of Paladin or Barbarian but the thing is, those classes aren't as customizable as the fighter. All Paladin's have the same abilities with the exception of the few feats. Same with Barbarians. With the fighter, customizing them with the plethora of feats is what makes them special. I feel the paragon is almost a replacement for the fighter, but it doesn't effectively replace any other class. This paragraph may not make much sense, I'm not that articulate. Just wondering if anybody else has opinions on this issue? Is there a need for two versions of the Human paragon and would a fighter 4 / human paraon 5 (spell-casting version) be any weaker than a fighter 9? Even though they don't have spells, they would have the ability boosts. Input would be appreciated.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-28-04, 02:48 PM	Jaerom Darkwind Fantastic job on all of these. I always wondered why they were only 3 levels in UA. I do have a slight issue with the two versions of Human Paragon. The non-casting human paragon seems as good or superior in every way to the fighter. Hit Die..........check BAB..............check Bonus Feats...check Saves...........check Plus the ability boosts. I'm wondering why someone would take levels in fighter? I have a player in my upcoming campaign that has expressed interest in this build. I have no doubt he will go Fighter 4/Paragon 5. That build is far better than Fighter 9. I was wondering, do you think the 3/4 BAB and d8 would be a good enough balance. Losing that BAB and one hit point a level seems appropriate to balance out the ability boost benefits. I realize you say look to the first five levels of Paladin or Barbarian but the thing is, those classes aren't as customizable as the fighter. All Paladin's have the same abilities with the exception of the few feats. Same with Barbarians. With the fighter, customizing them with the plethora of feats is what makes them special. I feel the paragon is almost a replacement for the fighter, but it doesn't effectively replace any other class. This paragraph may not make much sense, I'm not that articulate. Just wondering if anybody else has opinions on this issue? Is there a need for two versions of the Human paragon and would a fighter 4 / human paraon 5 (spell-casting version) be any weaker than a fighter 9? Even though they don't have spells, they would have the ability boosts. Input would be appreciated.The short answer is this: don't play a human fighter if this class is available (though this class is worthless when it comes to epic, which is a balancing point). Keep in mind, though, that the fighter gets 3 bonus feats, and the paragon only gets 2 and Skill Focus (one of the most worthless feats anywhere). With that said, I don't advocate the non-spellcasting human. I recommend the spellcasting version, and only offered the other because a DF member who was very helpful to me in balancing these classes didn't think that spellcasting was a human attribute at all--he though that a perfect human wouldn't rely on supernatural powers, but would be more like Batman, relying on his own wits and attributes. In the spellcasting paragon, he's neither as good at fighting as a fighter, as good at spellcasting as a wizard or cleric, nor as good at skills as a rogue--but he knows a smattering of all three things, making him the perfect jack-of-all-trades, or in other words, the perfect human. As to the other paragons, again, none is as specialized as a core class, and all contain mostly unique racial abilities. They're designed to represent the highest ideals of a race, not a certain career. So a dwarf paragon might not be as good as a dwarven fighter in battle, but he's also good in the forge and is tougher and more resilient than his brethren in all respects. Similar things can be said of elf paragons, gnome paragons, and all the rest. The core classes are all more specialized than the paragons, as they should be. In their chosen field, each core class is more powerful than a similar paragon. Because that's not what paragons are about.
Millenia 01-06-05, 12:14 AM	Um, I'm sorta trying to make a Half-Elemental Paragon class and, currently, I have no idea which skills to give it, besides Spot and Listen (because they happen to be class skills for elementals), Balance for Earth Half-elementals, Swim for Water Half-elementals, and Jump for Wind Half-elementals, so suggestions would be welcome. ^^;
Jaerom Darkwind 01-06-05, 01:55 AM	If I don't get back to this thread with answers to all of you before saturday, PM me and yell at me.
Gazza555 01-06-05, 05:55 AM	May I make a request for the half-ogre and the ogre? One idea for prestige would be Frenzied Bezerker. Regards, Gary
Millenia 01-10-05, 09:03 PM	..... Well, since I haven't gotten any suggestions for skills yet, I suppose I'll post what I have and hope someone says something. Half-Elemental Paragon Class Hit Dice: d8 BAB: 3/4 (as cleric) Skills: Listen, Spot, Concentration, Profession, Craft Air: Jump, Move Silently Earth: Balance, Climb Fire: Move Silently, Escape Artist, Tumble Water: Swim, Escape Artist, Heal Skill points: 2 + INT bonus Fort Save: Good for water and earth; poor for wind and fire. Ref Save: Poor for water and earth; good for wind and fire. Will Save: Poor First level: Air/Earth/Water Mastery, Bonus Language (Terran, Ignan, Aquan, or Auran) Second level: Darkvision (60 ft) Third level: Bonus Feat from one of the following lists: All: Elemental Bloodline (maybe), Spell-like Ability Focus Air: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse, Improved Levitation Earth: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack, Stone Colossus Fire: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Mobilitiy, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Healing Flames Water: Alertness, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Breathing Link, Rapid Swimming, Fifth level: Elemental Body as spell-like, 3/day Sucky, I know, but that's all I can do. >.>;
Jaerom Darkwind 01-15-05, 08:58 PM	Added the Genasi Paragons, which seem to have gotten themselves lost in the last boards conversion. Also rearranged the other classes. Will get to work on the requested stuff this weekend.
Millenia 01-16-05, 02:05 AM	Wow, nice paragon classes. o.o They're really nice. ^^;
Jaerom Darkwind 02-05-05, 01:27 AM	Half-dragon's up.
Knucklehead 03-10-05, 12:39 PM	firstly...:bump: I like the 5-Level progression, as others have mentioned. I hate the medium saves, as others have mentioned. And using only the half-elf as a base, it may be a tiny bit overpowered. My rational is building a UA half-elf level 3 + UA elf level 2, and comparing it to your half-elf 5. Your version gives me everything the 3/2 UA build does plus some extras like an extra +2 ability boost and seperate race designation. While it's not earth-shattering it is a bit beefy. Your thoughts? Also, how do you format the tables in your posts? It makes things very easy to read. :D
Drachasor 03-10-05, 01:05 PM	Wings: At 4th level, a half-dragon paragon grows bat-like wings. This grants her a fly speed equal to her land speed (average maneuverability). You could--oh, I don't know--make them dragon-like wings... : ) -Drachasor
Eikcuf 03-10-05, 04:02 PM	weather these are ballanced or not doesn't matter to me as im useing them as a bonus gesalt level at every fith :) IMO they are done very well,and we need people like this working for wizards
GreyLord 03-10-05, 04:26 PM	Hey, good job. I played a Drow Paragon in one of our games and was disappointed at how short the Class was overall. Your ideas for longer paragon classes seems like a great idea!
Jaerom Darkwind 03-10-05, 05:27 PM	firstly...:bump: I like the 5-Level progression, as others have mentioned. I hate the medium saves, as others have mentioned. And using only the half-elf as a base, it may be a tiny bit overpowered. My rational is building a UA half-elf level 3 + UA elf level 2, and comparing it to your half-elf 5. Your version gives me everything the 3/2 UA build does plus some extras like an extra +2 ability boost and seperate race designation. While it's not earth-shattering it is a bit beefy. Your thoughts?Well, first off, if I though the UA offerings were balanced, I wouldn't have bothered to revise them. Also, how do you format the tables in your posts? It makes things very easy to read. :DSame way you format anything else. Several board revisions ago they changed the coding to allow normal formatting tags inside of code blocks. You could--oh, I don't know--make them dragon-like wings... : ) -Drachasor :P Yeah, yeah. I'll change that. weather these are ballanced or not doesn't matter to me as im useing them as a bonus gesalt level at every fith :) IMO they are done very well, and we need people like this working for wizards Hey, good job. I played a Drow Paragon in one of our games and was disappointed at how short the Class was overall. Your ideas for longer paragon classes seems like a great idea!Cool, and thanks! Okay, more paragons will be trickling out over the next few days. The request list goes like this, as near as I can tell: Githzerai Githyanki Duergar Drow Hobgoblin Kobold Ogre Half-Ogre Half-Elemental Anything else?
Lord Welkerfan 03-10-05, 10:09 PM	I'd like to see a lizardfolk, shifter, and warforged paragon. The latter two also provide good PrC choices, in the form of the weretouched master and the juggarnaut. If the weretouched master has poor requirements (don't have the book with me at the moment), the Master of Many Forms offers an alternative.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-11-05, 02:51 AM	I'd like to see a lizardfolk, shifter, and warforged paragon. The latter two also provide good PrC choices, in the form of the weretouched master and the juggarnaut. If the weretouched master has poor requirements (don't have the book with me at the moment), the Master of Many Forms offers an alternative.I don't have Eberron. What book is the Shifter in?
Rafilar Irithyl 03-11-05, 03:11 AM	I don't have Eberron. What book is the Shifter in? Eberron, actuallly. :P
AndrewRF 03-13-05, 05:48 AM	The Shifter and Warforged are also in MM3. I'd also be intereted in seeing Paragon levels for Goliaths (Races of Stone) and Catfolk (Races of the Wild).
strenoth 03-13-05, 01:37 PM	actually, Warforged have a 5 level Racial PrC, though it's not called Paragon it really is that concept. Take a look at the Warforged Juggernaught in the Ebberon book.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-13-05, 08:27 PM	The Shifter and Warforged are also in MM3. I'd also be intereted in seeing Paragon levels for Goliaths (Races of Stone) and Catfolk (Races of the Wild).Don't have any of those books, either. What would people think if I replaced the level 4 bonus feat in the human paragon with the Jack of all Trades feat?
NineInchNall 03-13-05, 09:49 PM	Give me a leShay paragon! Now now now now now now now now.... :D :evillaugh You've seen my racial progressions for them on DF, JD, so you should know what I'm talkin' 'bout.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-13-05, 09:57 PM	Give me a leShay paragon! Now now now now now now now now.... :D :evillaugh You've seen my racial progressions for them on DF, JD, so you should know what I'm talkin' 'bout.Haven't actually--I only read threads that interest me. But what would you do with a LeShay Paragon? They're already like 30th ECL.
Rafilar Irithyl 03-13-05, 10:12 PM	Haven't actually--I only read threads that interest me. But what would you do with a LeShay Paragon? They're already like 30th ECL. Focus and specialization with their LeShay weapons, increasing attacks per round with off-hand weapon, and increased caster level with spell-like abilities? Not that anyone need bother. You're right, it'd be kind of pointless.
NineInchNall 03-13-05, 10:41 PM	I dunno, give them strange variant abilities, evolve their spell-likes to more powerful versions, etc. For those of us who play epic games with epic races, these things are entertaining. :88E:
glutton 03-14-05, 02:33 AM	Tiefling and aasimar paragons are in need of more imo.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-14-05, 02:47 AM	Tiefling and aasimar paragons are in need of more imo.Well, the full benefits of the outsider HD (except for fewer skill points) are a big part of the power of those classes. Full BAB, good saves, d8 HD, etc. The other class features only serve to round things off.
AndrewRF 03-14-05, 04:40 PM	Info on Goliaths can be found at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/965670000 A 5 level Paragon class could probably be something like: Hit die: d10 BAB: As Barbarian Class Skills and Skill Points: As Barbarian Saves: As Barbarian L1: Auspicious Markings feat, Sense Motive +4 (replaces racial +2) L2: Heavy Lithoderms or Rock Hurling feat L3: +2 CON L4: Grow to large size L5: +2 STR Auspicious Markings, Heavy Lithoderms and Rock Hurling are all RoS feats. Below are brief descriptions. Hopefully, that's allowed. 1) Auspicious Markings is a Goliath only racial feat. It's not very good by itself, but it has appropriate flavor for a Paragon ("fate has marked you for greatness") and it is the base feat for a whole slew of interesting Goliath specific racial feats. 2) Heavy Lithoderms is another Goliath only racial feat. It provides +1 natural armor. 3) Rock Hurling lets Large+ size (or Powerful Build) creatures throw throw large rocks for 2d6 damage. Note: I'm not sure if the size change should replace the Goliath's Powerful build or be in addition to it. Replacing it seems a little too weak, but letting them stack might be too strong. Hmm.
AndrewRF 03-15-05, 12:26 AM	For Catfolk (RoW), it seems like Paragon levels should probably grant them abilities akin to those of a great cat (lion, tiger, etc). I came up with two alternate advancement paths: improved natural combat/hunting abilities or improved stalking/tracking abilities. Note: Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved has a very similar race with a 6 level racial prestige class. I used that as a rough basis for the Catfolk levels, although these levels are definitely not as powerful. BAB: 3/4 (per Cleric) Saves: Fortitude=medium, Reflex=good, Will=poor Hit die: d8 Skills: ?? L1: Improved Catsenses, Improved Low-Light Vision L2: Improved Hunting 1 or Improved Stalking 1 L3: Ability boost (??? +2) L4: Improved Hunting 2 or Improved Stalking 2 L5: Ability boost (DEX +2) Improved Combat 1 includes Pounce, Claw Attacks Improved Combat 2 includes Heavy Fur or Sprint, Improved Claw Attack Improved Hunting 1 includes: Scent, Track, Camouflage Improved Hunting 2 includes: Fast Track, Fast Movement 1) Improved Catsenses: Racial bonus to Listen and Move Silently improves to +4 2) Improved Low-Light Vision: Can see three times are far as humans instead of twice as far 3) Claw Attacks: 2 claw attacks at 1d4 4) Improved Claw Attacks: claws now do 1d6 5) Heavy Fur: +1 natural AC 6) Pounce: either per MM or the weaker Catfolk Pounce feat in RoW 7) Track, Fast Track, Camouflage: per Ranger 8) Fast Movement: +10 speed per Barbarian 9) Scent: per MM 10) Sprint: Once per hour character can move up to 5x its normal speed when i makes a charge (per Cheetah in MM, but 5x instead of 10x)
Jaerom Darkwind 03-18-05, 02:11 AM	Okay, I just changed the Human, Aasimar, and Tiefling Paragons around a bit, and fixed some formatting errors. Hobgoblin, Goliath, Kobald, and Drow are completed, and all I need to do is type them up and format them. Look for them tomorrow or saturday.
Urzza 03-28-05, 06:00 PM	Im not done with it yet, but here is the begining to the Goblin paragon. GOBLIN PARAGON (Goblin) Alignment: Any. HD: d6 Fort Ref Will Level B.A.B. Save Save Save Special 1st 0 2 2 0 Weapon Finesse, The other side of stealth and mounts, Rogueish 2nd 1 3 3 0 Fast, Look sharp. 3rd 2 3 3 1 Ability Boost (Int +2) 4th 3 4 4 1 Ranged sneak attack, I see you! 5th 3 4 4 1 Ability Boost (Dex +2) Class Skills The goblin paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier.. Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, shortbow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with shields. Rogueish: A Goblin paragon class levels stack with a rogue when determining sneak attack dice and level when flanking some one with Improved uncanny dodge or similar ability. Weapon Finesse: At 1st level, the Goblin paragon gains the feat Weapon Finesse for free. The other side of stealth and mounts: At 1st level, the Goblin paragon gains a +4 bonus on Handle Animal and hide checks. Fast: At 2nd level, the Goblin paragon gains a +10 bonus to speed. Look sharp: At 2nd level, the Goblin paragon gains a +2 bonus to all spot and listen checks. Ability Boost (Int +2): At 3rd level, the Goblin paragon gains a +2 bonus to intelligence. Ranged sneak attack: At 4th level, a Goblin paragon can make sneak attacks at a range of 60 feet. I see you!: At 4th level, a Goblin paragons darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Ability Boost (Dex +2): At 5th level, a Goblin paragon gains a +2 bonus to his dexterity
Jaerom Darkwind 03-28-05, 08:37 PM	That's crazy-powerful.
Urzza 03-29-05, 12:20 AM	How so?
Jaerom Darkwind 03-29-05, 02:17 AM	It gets about twice as much as any other base class.
Urzza 03-29-05, 05:23 PM	hmmmm... Well, A goblin is kinda weak to start with... Im going to work on it some more
Urzza 03-29-05, 05:30 PM	Better? Now it gets nine things, the average for the other classes is about 6.4, not including saves, weapon profs, hitdies, and spells.
Lord Welkerfan 03-30-05, 04:35 PM	Throw out either the weapon finesse or the other side thing. That would put in on par with other classes. What racial prestige class are you thinking of?
Urzza 03-30-05, 05:21 PM	Hmmm... I really dont know what to drop.... What if I change Rogueish some? So it reads.. "A goblin paragon adds half his paragon levels (rounded down) to any rogue levels he has when determaning sneak attack dies and all of his paragon level when determaning where or not he can flanks some one with improved uncany dodge or simaler abilty" That better?
Lord Welkerfan 03-30-05, 06:08 PM	Simply let the effective rogue level increase by 1 at levels 1, 3, and 5, like what is done with caster levels. I still think, however, that the "Other Side..." ability or the Weapon Finesse feat should be dropped.
AndrewRF 03-30-05, 09:10 PM	To me, "The other side" feature makes sense as it enhances an inherent goblin racial trait and that's generally what paragon levels do. By the same token though, I'd recommend dropping the extra speed. Goblin's already have good movement speed for their size, but aren't particularly known for being super fast. The MM mentions a couple of things about Goblins that might be a good basis for the paragon levels. First, goblins tend to attack by ambush and in large numbers, so something that plays to those features would make sense. I'd suggest Swarm Fighting from the Complete Warrior in place of Weapon Finesse. Second, the MM mentioned Goblins riding Worgs and taking Mounted Combat as a feat. I'd replace the extra speed with that. So: L1: Swarm Fighting, +2 hide/handle animal (stacks with existing racial bonus) L2: Mounted Combat, +1 Rogue Level, +2 listen/spot (stacks with Alertness) L3: +2 Ability score, +1 Rogue Level L4: Ranged sneak attack, +30' darkvision L5: +2 Ability score, +1 Rogue Level Still seems a bit strong to me, but something like that.
Lord Welkerfan 03-31-05, 07:24 AM	Drop the pseudo-Alertness and it looks great.
Jaerom Darkwind 04-02-05, 07:02 PM	Overhauled the Hobgoblin. More are on the way (like the doppelganger).
Pax 04-02-05, 08:22 PM	Jeeze, these are GREAT. You have got to collect them into a single file (PDF preferably), once you're about done. And in the meantime, I intend to shamelessly steal large sections of your workhere, hehehe!
s4dfish 04-04-05, 07:13 PM	Overhauled the Hobgoblin. More are on the way (like the doppelganger).Love the Hobgoblin Paragon, one question though. Why did you go with the ability bonus to STR instead of DEX?
Jaerom Darkwind 04-05-05, 02:57 AM	Love the Hobgoblin Paragon, one question though. Why did you go with the ability bonus to STR instead of DEX?You're the second person to ask me that. Why should I have gone with Dex? I always saw them as big strong hulking humanoids. So Str and Con. Why Dex?
jaerad 04-05-05, 06:41 AM	Really good job on the paragons. When I read them over before they sounded lame and I just forgot about 'em. Great stuff so far. I was wondering something about subraces. Do they all have paragons? You've encluded Half-Elves (a human/elf subrace), etc, and you've put Druegars on the list to create paragons. Would Deep Dwarves, or Aquatic Elves have their own respective paragons? Rather than creating an endless supply of paragons, should we just consider paragons to be the pinicle of that whole race? They already have different racial abilities - do they really need their own paragon? Half-elves definetly warrant a paragon, as do Half-Orcs, but I'm unsure Desert Gnome Paragons really need much changing... I dunno, maybe I'm just rambling. Also, would adding Deepwarden (Races of Stone, Chap 5) to the prestige classes for dwarves be overbalanced (what with the Con > Dex AC bonus)? What reqs would get reduced? Maybe limit it to Deep Dwarves (MM 91)? Thanks in advance, I really appreciate your efforts on the boards.
Demon Lightfoot 04-05-05, 10:22 AM	You're the second person to ask me that. Why should I have gone with Dex? I always saw them as big strong hulking humanoids. So Str and Con. Why Dex? Damn skippy; the flavor text, for the longest time, has described the Hob as a big bad mofo; back in tha day, I reworked them from the 1e/2e RAW to be strong, tough, crafty and intimidating as opposed to dextrous and sneaky. I mean, at an average height of 6'6", with massive muscles and a harsh, militaristic culture, raised wielding nasty smashy and cutty weaponry, STR and CON make more sense. Go Jaerom!
s4dfish 04-05-05, 11:42 PM	You're the second person to ask me that. Why should I have gone with Dex? I always saw them as big strong hulking humanoids. So Str and Con. Why Dex?I guess I never read them as physically stronger than a human. Tougher? Yes. More Agile? Yes. Stronger? Not necessarily. Just to clarify, I don't think the STR bonus is uncharacteristic as the paragon probably should be stronger than a human. What I was fishing for was why STR as opposed DEX, which is already established as racially favored with ability adjustments and the move silently bonus. Damn skippy; the flavor text, for the longest time, has described the Hob as a big bad mofo; back in tha day, I reworked them from the 1e/2e RAW to be strong, tough, crafty and intimidating as opposed to dextrous and sneaky. I mean, at an average height of 6'6", with massive muscles and a harsh, militaristic culture, raised wielding nasty smashy and cutty weaponry, STR and CON make more sense.So what difference do you see between a hobgoblin and an orc? Most of what you have written (with the possible exception of the militaristic culture), could be used to describe an orc. I saw Hobgoblins as having more finesse than raw power. I'm not trying to sound critical or discount other's views, but it is interesting to read how others have interpreted the Hobgoblin. I'm thinking that I'm reinventing the fluff from the crunch instead of going from fluff to crunch (if that makes any sense at all). Sorry for the digression, awesome class :).
AndrewRF 04-06-05, 01:53 AM	This seems like one that could go either way. On the one hand, Hobgoblins are generally larger than humans and do have figher as their favored class. On the other hand, their normal racial adjustments don't include STR, but do include +2 DEX and +4 Move Silently. I'd probably go with DEX and CON, but that really just a personal judgement call. Interestingly, Bugbears (the top of the goblinoid hierarchy) actually have rogue as their favored class, despite having a normal racial adjustment of +4 STR (as well as +2 CON and +2 DEX).
Jaerom Darkwind 04-06-05, 02:05 AM	Well, it's not uncommon in racial paragons to enhance ability scores that don't have racial bonuses. In fact, almost all of them do. In this case, hobgoblins are naturally quick and tough; hobgoblin paragons are even larger and tougher than normal, and strong as well.
Demon Lightfoot 04-06-05, 02:46 PM	I guess I never read them as physically stronger than a human. Tougher? Yes. More Agile? Yes. Stronger? Not necessarily. Just to clarify, I don't think the STR bonus is uncharacteristic as the paragon probably should be stronger than a human. What I was fishing for was why STR as opposed DEX, which is already established as racially favored with ability adjustments and the move silently bonus. So what difference do you see between a hobgoblin and an orc? Most of what you have written (with the possible exception of the militaristic culture), could be used to describe an orc. I saw Hobgoblins as having more finesse than raw power. I'm not trying to sound critical or discount other's views, but it is interesting to read how others have interpreted the Hobgoblin. I'm thinking that I'm reinventing the fluff from the crunch instead of going from fluff to crunch (if that makes any sense at all). Sorry for the digression, awesome class :). Simple (as I see 'em; YMMV); Goblinoids respect (or fear) one thing; Strength. Orcs are stupid savage brutes, easily cowed (even though they may be physically strong and tough) by the more organized and intimidating Hobs, but...the Hobs have to have strength to back up their intimidation; just being organized and tough won't quite be enough -- unless they have endless numbers to call upon, like army ants (an interesting idea, but not one that I think has ever been supported in the texts...I could be wrong, but I'm arrogant enough to assume that I'm not :D ). IMG, Hob armies often use their Orc and Goblin slave-troops as ballista fodder, while Bugbears act as special squads of Shock Troops and Ogres & Hill Giant often serve them as ambulatory artillery.
jaerad 04-08-05, 06:44 PM	Btw, there's no Iron Will pre-req for Dwarven Defender. I assume you'd just drop off Endurance or something.
Jaerom Darkwind 04-08-05, 07:28 PM	Btw, there's no Iron Will pre-req for Dwarven Defender. I assume you'd just drop off Endurance or something.Huh, you're right. Wierd. Okay, make that Toughness.
s4dfish 04-08-05, 08:17 PM	unless they have endless numbers to call upon, like army ants (an interesting idea, but not one that I think has ever been supported in the texts...I'm thinking that's what the goblin is for :). I could be wrong, but I'm arrogant enough to assume that I'm not :D ).I resemble that remark :w00t: ----- Jaerom, You could use the Stonedeath Assassin (from Races of Stone) for Goblinoid's racial prestige class. Not sure it's entirely fitting the Hobgoblins, but perhaps a Goblin.
drelidan7 04-15-05, 03:19 PM	Either my eyes are deceiving me, or you forgot to put up the Drow Paragon. Really looking forward to this one if/when you do put it up there. Also, :bump:
Jaerom Darkwind 04-15-05, 06:10 PM	Drow's up.
Millenia 04-15-05, 08:39 PM	Uh, you made a typo. ^^; "At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a female drow paragon gains new spells per day as if she had gained a level in wizard. A male drow paragon instead gains new spells per day as of he had gained a level of wizard." I think you mean the female drow gets a level in cleric. <<;
jaerad 04-16-05, 01:00 AM	You forgot Drow Prestige. That is, unless you're thinking is that since no one likes Drows they aren't very prestigious... :) Also, is there a reason why Dwarven Paragons don't also favor the Deepwarden PrC (Races of Stone)?
Jaerom Darkwind 04-16-05, 02:52 AM	You forgot Drow Prestige. That is, unless you're thinking is that since no one likes Drows they aren't very prestigious... :)Well, what steriotypical Drow class can they not enter with just 5 levels in Drow Paragon? Also, is there a reason why Dwarven Paragons don't also favor the Deepwarden PrC (Races of Stone)?What are the prereqs for Deepwarden?
jaerad 04-16-05, 02:41 PM	Pssh, I don't know jack about Drow except that they are disliked and their stuff burns up in sunlight. Was just pointing out that the other Paragons had early access to a PrC, thought you had just forgot it. Deepwarden: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4 "Requirements Race: Dwarf. Base Attack Bonus: +5. Skills: Climb 5 ranks, Heal 5 ranks, Jump 5 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5 ranks, Survival 5 ranks. Feat: Endurance." The reqs aren't very hard to meet at lvl 5, it was mostly just a flavor comment.
Kalis Atrud 04-20-05, 02:46 AM	If races with high ecl are supposed to be better than those without, why does the Drow Paragon not get full bab and saves like the aasimar or tiefling? I understand they get spellcasting, but Drow are 2 ecl higher than the normal races, shouldn't their paragon be as nice in comparison to the aasimar as the aasimar is to the normal races?
Jaerom Darkwind 04-20-05, 02:54 AM	If races with high ecl are supposed to be better than those without, why does the Drow Paragon not get full bab and saves like the aasimar or tiefling? I understand they get spellcasting, but Drow are 2 ecl higher than the normal races, shouldn't their paragon be as nice in comparison to the aasimar as the aasimar is to the normal races?The Aasimar and Teifling are based on Outsider HD. The Drow is based on Humanoid HD. The Drow get better special abilities. They get an epic feat (!) at 4th level.
Kalis Atrud 04-21-05, 12:29 AM	The Aasimar and Teifling are based on Outsider HD. The Drow is based on Humanoid HD. The Drow get better special abilities. They get an epic feat (!) at 4th level. The aasimar and tiefling get 1.5 epic feats at first level(1/2 of the energy resistance epic feat * 3) for the equivalent of having 3 epic feats(the other 1.5 from the standard racial abilities). Not really all that concerned for the poor drow :rolleyes: , just curious as the drow paragon didn't seem too much better than the standard races' paragon if at all.
Chathsolen 04-22-05, 12:20 PM	Greetings Jaerom I'm currently playing a Drow Fighter which will be gaining the 3 paragon level in the UA. He is strictly melee and doesn't wish to cast any spells except for the racial ones. I was wondering what your adjustments be if the spell levels was taking out and something else added in there place? Right now he is a 2nd lvl fight with two weapon fighting and using the class defense bonus in the UA cause i want him to be unique in not wearing any armor. thank you for your time Chathsolen
Jaerom Darkwind 04-22-05, 04:35 PM	I would say no dice. Racial paragons aren't a buffet. The perfect drow casts spells, so if you don't want to, you're not Drow Paragon material, and should take a different class. In order to epitomize all that is the drow race, you need spellcasting.
Chathsolen 04-23-05, 09:21 AM	ohh ok. well hmmm What would you suggest as a good wizard type class without the use of somatic components then if you don't mind me asking? My character is mainly a fighter but at times can use ranged attacks when the oppertunity presents it self. The reason i want to get the paragon is for the ability increase, improved spell-like abiilities and the improved darkvision.
jaerad 05-05-05, 01:01 AM	This should be sticky it rules so much. :) :bump: *EDIT* Oh ya Jaerom: Under Dwarven Paragon, the Save Bonus includes a bonus to poisions, while they had already gained that earlier with Poison Save Bonus. Did you mean to give repeat bonuses to poison? Just making sure you didn't overlook anything. :)
jaerad 05-15-05, 12:27 AM	:bump: dangnabit
GFC_Seracule 06-14-05, 04:45 PM	I think these are awesome, but ever consider a kobold paragon? I think they are underpowered, so a powerful paragon would make up for it. :thumbs ________________________________________ ___________________________ Me: :88E:
Jaerom Darkwind 06-14-05, 06:47 PM	Actually, I do have some notes on it somewhere, let me see if I can dig them up and post something.
Aurotuli 06-30-05, 11:01 PM	I like what you've done with the races and their paragons. However, I am a little confused over the AL requirements for the genasi. I suppose I can understand Chaotic for fire and air (although I can think of lawful patterns for both - especially air (jet streams, trade winds, etc)), and I might even be able to see lawful for earth (although it always seemed a neutral balance to me: chaotic in composition but orderly in form and unyielding-ness), but the way you've set it up all water genasi have to be LN to gain the full benefits of their paragon class (lawful requirement, casting levels as a druid). Of all the four elements water has always seemed the most neutrally aligned: still pools, dangerous waves, pure composition, formless in shape, oceanic currents that flow like rivers for thousands of miles, eddies as large as countries or as small as a few drops of water). Even the description of their personalities does not seem to have an overly lawful bent - although not necessarily chaotic either. Why not state, instead, that water AL should be any neutral? I won't go so far as to suggest all the genasi paragons should be that way (as I can readily see the reason for fire genasi being any chaotic), but water in particular seems like it does not match its AL requirements for its paragon. Other than that I like all you've done so far. Addendum: You know, if they used ice instead of water for the opposite of flame I could very easily see it as lawful (pure in substance, solid in form, implacable, etc), but water is the neutral between ice's law and vapor's chaos).
Gilean 07-01-05, 04:54 AM	You should make these 20 level and beyond, with few different paths. And replace monster HD with similar classes.
Jaerom Darkwind 07-01-05, 09:55 AM	You should make these 20 level and beyond, with few different paths.That's really not feasable. And "different paths" can be had through prestige classes. And replace monster HD with similar classes.Eh?
Nani? 07-01-05, 10:46 AM	Where I'm coming from, First of Half elves are my favorite core race the same way I suspect half orcs are yours. I feel while the half orc is more underpowered then the half elf, I believe both are underpowered. I dislike the 3.5 WOTC solution of "powering up" the social skills. This is one "path" a half elf could take to survival and or social betterment. I could just as easily see a half elf "reject" surviving on the edges of a forest or, alternately, making making intuitive leaps which would not occur or be regected by a "normal" elf or human as a magical researcher thus gaining a place for himself that way rather then as a "social animal". I find the whole social proficency indirectly as limiting and stifleing as the barbarian "favored class" for half orcs in that it's hard to play as an effective "anything else" (not always bad but goes too far in both cases). In my games, I give players the option of replacing the social skills stuff with any one the "+2/+2" skill enhancing proficencies like magical aptitude, deceitful, animal affinity etc to represent someone who has found another "outlet" for thier differences. (Ex: "People aren't easy. Horses, we understand each other." or "Auntie insisted I "act human". Yea, I got plenty good at passing. If you ask me to that, I'll rip your liver out and feed it to my dog.") My question for you is, why do you limit the spell advancement to Wizard? It seems to serve very little balance purpose and is overly limiting. Ranger, Bard, Sorcerer (mixed blood, wierd magic, cool) and Druid seem like "naturals" paragon classes for a spell casting half elf. Also, considering different social circumstances, mixed blood, a tendancy torward a vagabond lifestyle, all very unlike a typical "elf" or a human "guild wizard", doesn't the "informal" magic of a bard or sorcerer seems somewhat more appropriate then "formal" wizard magic (taught in schools they likely don't quite fit in well at) for half elves? All the Best, Nani?
Jaerom Darkwind 07-01-05, 02:31 PM	Well, I actually don't much care for half-orcs. My favorite race is human. As to the half-elf paragon, keep in mind that a paragon clas is designed for the perfect representation of a race. The perfect half-elf blends and harmonizes his dual heritage. He doesn't reject either or both of his parent races. A half-elf who does is obviously not a paragon. With that in mind, elves have generalist wizard spellcasting with built-in racial substitution level. Half-elves have wizard spellcasting like their elven parent, but not necessarily generalist (due to the versatility in spellcasting of their human parent).
Calibron 07-01-05, 07:45 PM	How would you balance the Aasimar when adding Divine Spell Casting Levels(and perhaps barring Druid and Ranger Caster Levels) at 1st 3rd and 5th level? I was thinking about dropping the BAB down to 3/4 like a humanoid(since most of their blood is human anyway I would say this makes some sense) and dropping the Fort and Will saves down to medium(again, human blood{humanoids' good save is supposedly Reflex}). But I'm not sure if this is balanced.
Jaerom Darkwind 07-01-05, 08:06 PM	The proper progression would be 2, 3, and 5, and the changes you suggest would probably be fine. You might also drop the Ref.
Nani? 07-02-05, 05:14 AM	As to the half-elf paragon, keep in mind that a paragon clas is designed for the perfect representation of a race. Sounds like we're interpreting "perfect" in different ways. Very interesting. For what it's worth we may both have a valid arguement. Also, forget the 1st part of my post on how I would do it and concentrate on the arguement about spellcasting. The perfect half-elf blends and harmonizes his dual heritage. He doesn't reject either or both of his parent races. A half-elf who does is obviously not a paragon. A single race paragon is the epitimey that culture/heritage. A mixed race paragon (half elf/orc, plaintouched etc) are instead the epitimy of being caught between two cultures and epitimizing the situation of never being able to be fully part of either culture. A "perfect" half elf paragon comes to accept that he can never fully be a "normal" member of either elven or human society. He has found identity and success in using that unique place as a permanent outsider and finds ways to make it work for the benefit of himself and (depending on alignment) those around him. The extent that he "blends" his heritage is entirely up to the unique circumstances he is faced with and his personal background, which is more likely to include social isolation (peers ageing at different rates, odd behavior), fosterage, abandonment, extrodinary parents then a "typical" human or elf. Coming to terms with his untypicalness, and finding the benefits of that state in spectacular ways is what makes him a "perfect paragon" of half elvenhood (or half orcdom). With that in mind, elves have generalist wizard spellcasting with built-in racial substitution level. Half-elves have wizard spellcasting like their elven parent, but not necessarily generalist (due to the versatility in spellcasting of their human parent). I'm looking at it socially and genetically while your looking at it mostly genetically. Look at the elven wizard tradition as a culture trait and one not shared by many subraces if you use them. A half elf raised in elven society would be biologically an adult before just as his peers take thier first lessons in magic. True, he has seen magic all his life but he may or more likely not have been taught by the adults not used to his rapid aging. At the same time, his odd genetic make-up, experiments, his odd train of thought are just or more likely to foster Sorcery or Bardic magic. His oddness might lead him to unique pursuits like interest in religion or connection with nature. Simularly, a human raised half elf might have problems with the speed and structure of a formal wizards school. On the other hand, he might be exposed human parent on the edge of a forest and adopted by the Druid, run away and end up joining the bards, or be exposed to magic in odd ways because of the elven reputation as wizards. All of these things are in some ways the "epitimy" of being mixed blooded in general and half elven in particular. That's why I argue for "One caster level" rather then "One wizard spellcasting level." All the best, Nani?
Gilean 07-02-05, 07:40 AM	That's really not feasable. And "different paths" can be had through prestige classes.Hmm. Elaborate, if you would. I have made 20-level class for human, elf, orc and mind flayer. Human doesn't have different paths, others do. For example, the bladedancer elf, the elven high mage and elven shaman for wilder elves. And why use cumbrous PrCs? If you want a tough and a dwarf, there are requirements (for defender) such as toughness, dodge and endurance. A tough dwarf could very likely take great fortitude, improved toughness (if you use CW), other toughness feat (dragon's, dwarf's, giant's from MotW), and so on. Prestige classes aren't intuitive enough, generally.Eh?When monster classes all work like character classes, there is no need for LA, and HD = CR = ECL, translating to smoother and more balanced game. For example, my illithid class can take PR, psionic manifesting ability, psi-like abilities or focus on tentacles and feeding on brains. Mind blast is one way of advancement.
Marabout 07-04-05, 02:16 AM	All in all, this is GREAT stuff, and I've added the revised Half-Orc to my campaign as standard (with a slight change: +1 to Animal Handling, +2 to Intimidate), but I think that it might be a good idea to allow the Half-Elf Paragon to access each of the arcane classes for spells, not just the Wizard. It seems to me that the Bard and Sorcerer both fit the concept of the H/E character well: Bards are social people, just like the Half-Elf (+2 to all CHA skills ring a bell?), and Sorcerers have magic in their blood, which could easily come from mixing the ambition of a Human and the semi-magical nature of Elves. Marabout the Mad Mage
Fuzzy_Logic 07-31-05, 02:23 PM	First off, let me dispute the point that no one likes halflings. I love halflings! they're a very powerful race is built properly, and they can be fun to roleplay. abotu the stat boost for your halfling paragon: would you consider boositng wisdom rather than charisma? it would separate them more from gnomes, and it makes a lot of sense. WotC has been playing up halflings as happy-go-lucky wanderers and tricksters, but tolkien's hobbits are simple, earthy folk who are close to the land and has lost of common sense. furthermore, wisdom helps them with notice rolls, and is a boon to halfling druids, (halfling being the only race i consider a competitiot with human for best druid). incidentally, are you doing paragons on request? I've pretty drastically altered the cultures of some of the races, which would necessitate new paragons, but i'm having trouble designing them. for instance, in many of my campaign worlds, halflings are a race of fierce warriors. in one campaign theair dominant culture was a tribe of mongol-like plains-dwellers, while in the campaing i'm currently developing, they're a lawful nation with a strong military. they may be small and weak, but they make up for it with clever taxctics and lost of training, and often use weapon finesse to up their hit rate while taking rogue levels to help with damage output. In any case, could you do a paragon class for a halfling kingdom where fighter is the favored class? stat boost could be dex (the prime halfling stat) and str (making up for their racial penalty)
jaerad 08-01-05, 04:41 AM	Any hope for Eberron racial paragons? Puuuhhhlllleeeezzzzzeeeee?!?! :)
Calibron 08-22-05, 02:59 AM	You might use Mortal Hunter for the Tiefling Prestige Class. The features bypassed could be 5 ranks in Survival and the Mortalbane feat.
mythSSK 08-23-05, 01:41 AM	Where hath Jaerom gone? Has he abandoned his thread? I desire more paragon-y goodness!
Pennarin 08-24-05, 12:28 AM	Couldn't the half-dragon paragon class grant a size category increase?
Jaerom Darkwind 10-19-05, 02:17 AM	Kobold's up.
Lord Welkerfan 10-19-05, 08:10 PM	There are several references to "drow paragon" in the kobold paragon.
Jaerom Darkwind 10-19-05, 09:12 PM	Fixed all of the errors. Take a look now.
mythSSK 10-19-05, 11:09 PM	Great work as always, Jae. :)
Quarionthegolden 10-26-05, 04:53 PM	<QUOTE>KOBOLD PARAGON (Kobold) Alignment: Any nongood. HD: d6. Code: Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spellcasting 1st +0 +0 +2 +1 Daylight adaptation, skill bonus, -- stonecunning 2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 Racial enemy (gnomes), +1 sorcerer level improved darkvision 3rd +2 +1 +3 +2 Ability boost (Cha +2) +1 sorcerer level 4th +3 +1 +4 +2 Wolfpack -- 5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Ability boost (Dex +2) +1 sorcerer levelClass Skills The kobold paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the kobold paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Kobold paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor and bucklers. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, a kobold paragon gains new spells per day and spells known as if she had gained a level in sorcerer. The paragon does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that the character adds these levels of kobold paragon to the levels in sorcerer, and then determines known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the kobold paragon adds her entire class level to any levels in the spellcasting class to determine caster level. If the kobold paragon has no levels in sorcerer, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). A kobold paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the sorcerer class normally. Daylight Adaptation: A kobold paragon gains the Daylight Adaptation feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Skill Bonus: A kobold paragon's racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks increases to +4. Stonecunning: Kobold paragons gain a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A kobold paragon who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if she were actively searching, and a kobold paragon can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. She can also intuit depth, sensing her approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. Racial Enemy: At 2nd level, a kobold paragon’s ability to battle gnomes increases. This is identical to a ranger’s favored enemy (see the Player’s Handbook). If the kobold paragon has occasion to improve her favored enemy abilities, through feats or the ranger class, for example, she may apply these improvements to her racial enemy instead. Improved Darkvision: At 2nd level, a kobold paragon’s darkvision range increases by 30 feet. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a kobold paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Charisma. At 5th level, the kobold paragon increases her racial bonus to Dexterity by +2. Wolfpack: At 4th level, a kobold paragon gains the Wolfpack tactical feat as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Kobold Presitge: TBA. </QUOTE> is this what you should do to make a good meepo? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Verelor 10-27-05, 08:14 PM	I would LOVE to see an Ogre Mage paragon. :)
Verelor 10-29-05, 12:49 PM	Anyone? An Illithid paragon sounds like an even bigger no-brainer to do at this point. Lots of intelligence boosts, better darkvision, some improved mind blasting, and a closing ability to make it easier to eat brains :) Alignment Lawful Evil only, of course. For skills I'd allow all the ones that focus upon Intelligence and Charisma, and disinclude most of the ones that use Strength and Dexterity as the ability score. D8 HD. There, I've done half the work for you already! :D
Lord Welkerfan 10-29-05, 01:12 PM	And as broken as it was, Illithid Savant as the racial prestige.
Verelor 10-30-05, 04:10 PM	Here, I've finally decided to go ahead and try my hand at it. It's nt very good for my own campaign setting, but I did this one as a service to the community: ILLITHID PARAGON (Mind Flayer) Alignment: Lawful Evil HD: d8 Code: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special Spellcasting 1st +0 +0 +1 +2 Skill Bonus -- 2nd +1 +0 +2 +3 Ability boost (Int +2), +1 sorcerer or wizard level improved darkvision 3rd +2 +1 +2 +3 Ability boost (Int +2), +1 sorcerer or wizard level enhanced mind blasting 4th +3 +1 +2 +4 Improved darkvision -- 5th +3 +1 +3 +4 Ability boost (Cha +2), +1 sorcerer or wizard level devour at ease ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class Skills The illithid paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the kobold paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Illithid paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor and bucklers. Spells Per Day: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, an illithid paragon gains new spells per day and spells known as if she had gained a level in sorcerer or wizard (your choice). The paragon does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that the character adds these levels of illithid paragon to the levels in sorcerer or wizard, and then determines known spells and spells per day accordingly. However, the illithid paragon adds her entire class level to any levels in the spellcasting class to determine caster level. If the illithid paragon has no levels in either sorcerer or wizard, she may begin gaining spellcasting ability from one of the two classes (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). An illithid parag An illithid paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the sorcerer and/or wizard class normally. Skill Bonus: An illithid paragon's racial bonus on all Knowledge and Diplomacy checks increases to +4. Improved Darkvision: At 2nd level and 5th level, an illithid paragon’s darkvision range increases by an additional 30 feet. Ability Boost: Illithids are incredibly intelligent and have a striking ability to lead and tyrannize, and hone these skills routinely. Thus, at 2nd and 3rd level their Intelligence score increases and at 5th level their Charisma score increases. Improved Mind Blasting: At 3rd level, an illithid paragon's mind blast becomes even more deadly and powerful than it already is. The illithid paragon adds her intelligence bonus to the DC 17 of the mind blast. Devour at Ease: At 5th level, an illithid paragon becomes so accomidated to her natural-born dark mind flaying powers that she may extract the brains of her opponents with even greater imputiny. If it wins a grapple check to attach a single tentacle, she instead attaches all her tentacles at one time. Illithid Prestige: Illithid Savant
Verelor 11-04-05, 06:27 PM	Well, because noone cared to reply and that now I know Jaerom Darkwind officially hates me, I think this topic deserves a bump. Really, though, JD, it blows my mind that someone could truly be this cold-hearted.
Bladenite78 11-08-05, 12:41 PM	I didnt see a half celestial paragon, did you make one and I not see it? if not then would you please create one and if so then would you please direct me to the page, thanks.
Lord Welkerfan 11-08-05, 06:00 PM	Guys, keep in mind that JD is a person, too. He creates this material for pleasure and to use in his own games. It's really not that polite to vacantly request things from him as though he has nothing better to do.
Bladenite78 11-08-05, 06:11 PM	Guys, keep in mind that JD is a person, too. He creates this material for pleasure and to use in his own games. It's really not that polite to vacantly request things from him as though he has nothing better to do. Dude, I said please, I wasnt pushy and if he didnt want to create them he wouldnt put them up here. He can always log on and tell me "nah, dont want to" and that would be just dandy with me
Jaerom Darkwind 11-08-05, 06:59 PM	Problem is, usually when someone asks for a paragon my mind is instatly flooded with ideas on how to build one. :) As a LA +4 (they're +4, right?), that's a lot of power. How much? Look at my doppelganger paragon. Only thing is, I'm not sure that I want paragons for templates. I did the half-dragon against my better judgement. If you're a half-celestial, what are you the paragon of? You're a half-breed. You're not human and you're not celestial. There's no society of half-celestials for you to live in perfect harmony with and there's no racial identity for you to embody. I'm not saying I won't make one, but the jury's still out.
Bladenite78 11-09-05, 11:27 AM	True they are a halfbreed but you could say the same thing of the Half elf, half orc, tiefling, half dragon, etc. I believe the paragon or epitome of the half celestial is basically taking the celestial side and making it more prominent. Since celestials are divided among descriptors...ie lawful, chaotic and neutral then perhaps it is best to make 2-3 different racial paragons that would represent the best of what each has to offer. Anyways, just my two cents, love the work you've done here and I thought Id share it with my DM so he could see what he could come up with. Thanks for looking at it and I appreciate anything you do.
Verelor 11-26-05, 11:30 AM	So then...still no comment on my poor little illithid racial paragon, JD? :mad:
FriendlyBiscuit 12-05-05, 06:27 PM	Usually, ability bonuses aren't allowed to be taken in the same place. (look at the bloodlines in UA) For your human paragon, the ability boosts should include something like "Each time this is taken, it must be applied to a different ability score"
syntaxerror37 12-15-05, 03:35 AM	Gnomes got royally shafted in 3.5, as most everyone knows. A race that was never very cohesive or popular to begin with suddenly got changed from a half-way decent favored class (Illusionist) to one of the worst classes in all of D&D (the Bard). When all you focus on is numerical balancing, you get the Bard-- matching up quite necely in terms of abilities, but not so in actual play. Why all the bard hate? On the actual topic... I really like what you've done here, I wasn't very impresed with UA's paragon classes. And you get double credit for fixing the half-orc. Actualy, you've given me an Idea for a whole campaign based around the paragon levels. From a role playing perspective, do you think a paragon would recive a bonus when dealing with his own race, like with bluff or diplomacy? Don't need a hard rule, just your oppinion on the matter.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-15-05, 07:34 AM	Why all the bard hate? :D From a role playing perspective, do you think a paragon would recive a bonus when dealing with his own race, like with bluff or diplomacy? Don't need a hard rule, just your oppinion on the matter.I think that that would be reasonable, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. But only after the paragon demonstrated his paragon-ness to the people in question.
Derrick 12-16-05, 09:29 PM	I think the half-orc (and, by extension, orc) redesigns are a little over-done. Looking at: - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence. A half-orc's Intelligence is always at least 3. If this adjustment would lower the character's score to 1 or 2, her score is nevertheless 3. - Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. - Half-orc land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all. - +2 racial bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and effects. - +1 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks. - +1 racial bonus on Intimidate checks. - +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal and Survival checks. - Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc. - Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). - Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-orc takes an experience point penalty, her highest level class does not count. I'm finding it hard to see mechanical reasons to choose human over half-orc for paladin... and that's meant to be a human speciality, isn't it? I'm also a bit stumped for reasons why I'd play a non-orcish ranger, though it was a good pick anyway. Care to explain why you think strength is worth so little? +1 to hit and damage is something that PCs pay 2000gp for, after all. Being the only core race with a 30 foot move and Darkvision is pretty huge as well.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-16-05, 09:36 PM	I think the half-orc (and, by extension, orc) redesigns are a little over-done. I'm finding it hard to see mechanical reasons to choose human over half-orc for paladin... and that's meant to be a human speciality, isn't it? I'm also a bit stumped for reasons why I'd play a non-orcish ranger, though it was a good pick anyway.Because nothing in the Half-Orc remotely benefits a paladin? Care to explain why you think strength is worth so little? +1 to hit and damage is something that PCs pay 2000gp for, after all. Being the only core race with a 30 foot move and Darkvision is pretty huge as well.And one fewer skill point per level (-2 Int) is worth nothing? IMO, an Int penalty hurts 90% of characters far more than a Str bonus could ever help them. But then again, I've never tried playing a dumb brute so maybe I'm missing some fun aspect of the game?
Derrick 12-16-05, 09:52 PM	Because nothing in the Half-Orc remotely benefits a paladin? Do your paladin characters never hit things? ...carry things (like armor)? ...enter dark environments? ...have to save against mind-affecting spells? If so, then I guess you're right, but in that case, I think we're playing games so different that one or the other of us isn't playing D&D any more. And one fewer skill point per level (-2 Int) is worth nothing? IMO, an Int penalty hurts 90% of characters far more than a Str bonus could ever help them. Can we ignore Wizards and Psions, for starters? :) Even with them included, I'm struggling to take your 90% figure seriously. Characters who specialise in melee combat almost always benefit from added strength more than they lose from lost skill points; due to the nature of the game, these characters will be more than 10% of the total. But then again, I've never tried playing a dumb brute so maybe I'm missing some fun aspect of the game? You've never thought of playing a simple but pious man, whose sturdy frame bears evidence of his devotion to his ideals? The idea of the feral, but hardly cerebral, wilderness warrior has never occured to you? I think you are missing some fun aspects of the game; I know you like humans, but seriously, added skill points aren't the be-all and end-all, nor is having a high intelligence character. (If you'd like to discuss this without the barrages of rhetoric going both ways, I'll oblige if you'll make a show of good faith. :))
Senko 12-16-05, 10:09 PM	Hmmmm a half-orc televangelist interesting image. As for the skills vs strength debate I think it depends very much on who's running the game. Some GM's go for a hack and slash campaign in which high strength more than makes up for a low int. Others however may play a roleplaying/strategy one in which combats are very rare and you need skills to figure out and solve various puzzles/mysteries. In those games your high strength is all but useless and losing even 1 point a level can make a huge difference to your character.
Derrick 12-16-05, 10:32 PM	Hmmmm a half-orc televangelist interesting image. Even without Jaerom's half-orc, there's the RoD half-orc sub levels for paladin... though maybe you were thinking Urban Arcana? :) As for the skills vs strength debate I think it depends very much on who's running the game. Some GM's go for a hack and slash campaign in which high strength more than makes up for a low int. Others however may play a roleplaying/strategy one in which combats are very rare and you need skills to figure out and solve various puzzles/mysteries. In those games your high strength is all but useless and losing even 1 point a level can make a huge difference to your character. Fundamentally, this argument from skill-use is flawed. A game that centres exclusively around skill use is unbalanced in just the same way as one that centres exclusively around combat. D&D is combat-based: there's a ton of rules devoted to it, after all! :) However, it would be a mistake to think that skills never enter the equation. It would be a bigger one to assume that they're the only thing that matters, of course. Anyway, aside from trying to set me up to defend the unbalanced combat game (I'll pass: I like balanced games :)) you seem to be trying to claim the turf of 'roleplaying' for the unbalanced skill game. Try again: Roleplaying is something the player does. Not the system mechanics. Not the character sheet. The player. The types of challenges that the characters face provide a context for that, but that still doesn't pigeonhole a game according to whether it's combat- or skills-based.
Senko 12-17-05, 11:12 PM	Actually I had more in mind the Guthy Renker early morning tv type "You can only be saved if you let god into your life." Honestly who's up at that time of day and able to watch TV that would be interested in being told they're going straight to hell? Actually my argument isn't flawed exactly so much as it isn't clear. I'm well aware a good game requires balance and most tend more towards combat than skill use. I was merely trying to point out that whether or not a skill penalty hurts more than a strength penalty depends very much on what type of game your playing. For instance I do know of a GM who's told they're players the one combat they've already had is the only one they'll be having in his campaign and another who's running a straight hack and slash vikings era one. In other words unless you agree on what type of game is being played a debate is virutally impossible to resolve. Aside from anything else I still have bad memories of first ed where you got majorly screwed over rules wise if you played anything but a human male. Non human races had level limits of 6-12 generally because they're darkvision/immunity to sleep/automatic chance to spot a hidden door more than makes up for the 30 extra levels the human gets. Female humans can at best (naturally) get half the bonus to hit/damage male ones can and if you have a strength of less than 18 don't even bother playing a fighter because the bonuses don't start until you roll that percentile dice.
Derrick 12-18-05, 03:36 AM	Actually my argument isn't flawed exactly so much as it isn't clear. I'm well aware a good game requires balance and most tend more towards combat than skill use. I was merely trying to point out that whether or not a skill penalty hurts more than a strength penalty depends very much on what type of game your playing. For instance I do know of a GM who's told they're players the one combat they've already had is the only one they'll be having in his campaign and another who's running a straight hack and slash vikings era one. In other words unless you agree on what type of game is being played a debate is virutally impossible to resolve. How about we assume that the game is being played as per the designer's intent, with two or three combats per session? (Some argue it's more like four, but I tend to think that some challenges are not combats, or can be by-passed.) I realise that this is a House Rules section, but this particular thread was not begun with an intent to customise for a game that has hardly any combat in it, so surely our baseline should be the rules as written?
Fuzzy_Logic 01-07-06, 12:57 PM	Jaerom- Sorry to resurrect this threa,d but i wanted to show my appreciation. i love thyese classes. do you have any plans on doing the eberron races or races of x ones? in particular, i'd like to see Shifter Paragon and Killoren Paragon. why do half-orcs get +2 against mind spells? isn't that an elf thing? and anyway, if they take barbarian they get that with raging. i'd say your revision has enough other abilities that it doesn't need that bonus. finally, i'v elooked over your gnome paragon, and it strikes me as hideously, mind-shatteringly weak. not your fault, i know, since you modeled it off the UA version, but why noy at least give it 5 out of five for bard spells, rather than 3/5ths? EDIT: may i hijack this thread by adding some Paragons of my own?
Fuzzy_Logic 01-07-06, 05:32 PM	Catfolk Paragon the catfolk are a proud, inquisitive race, and their paragon reflect the adventurous spirit of a noble hunter- silent and deadly Catfolk Paragon Base Attack as Fighter, strong reflex, medium fortitude, Hit die: d8, 6 SP/level Class Skills: hide, move silently, spot, listen, survival, climb, jump, tumble, knowledge (nature), knowledge (local) Proficiencies: light armor, martial weapons 1 Nervous as a cat 2 Consummate Hunter 3 +2 Str 4 Catfolk Pounce 5 +2 Dex Nervous as a cat: in light or no armor, the cat gets +4 to initiative Consummate hunter: the cat gets +2 to listen and move silently Catfolk pounce: the cat receives Catfolk Pounce as the feat. Catfolk Prestige: the Catfolk may qualify for Wildrunner (from races of the wild) ignoring the following requirements: endurance, elf or half-elf Killoren Paragon The killoren are attuned to the natural world, but adventurous explorers like humans. a killoren paragon leanrs ot deepen his connections to the three aspects of nature. D8, 4 SP, ¾ BAB, All saves Medium Skills: listne, spot, knowledge (nature, geography, local) hide, move silently, climb, jump, swim, survival, handle animal, ride 1 Aspect Feats, Naturalist 2 Favored Domain 3 , Aspect Stats+2 4 Quickchange (full-round action change aspect) 5 Favored Stat+2 Killoren Prestige: Arcane Hierophant; Ignore all requirements save Trackless Step at levels 2,3, and 5 KIlloren Paragons get spells as a druid Aspect feats: the killoren paragon gains Killoren ancient, hunter, and destroyer feats. Naturalist: +2 to survival and listen Favored Domain: the Killoren chooses and aspect and gains the domain associated wiht it: knowledge for ancient, travel for hunter, destruction for destruction. he gets domain slots added to his druid spellcasting. Aspect Sats: when he chooses his aspect each day, he gains+2 to its associated stat: strength, dexterity, or wisdom Quickchange: as a full-round action, he may meditate and change his current aspect Favored Stat: the killoren gets a permanent plus 2 to the stat associated wiht the aspect he chose his domain for.
Jaerom Darkwind 01-08-06, 12:55 AM	Half-Celestial Paragon's up
KhalaKyRelai 02-19-06, 02:20 PM	Why do the Drow get d8 HP when other elves get only d6? I would give the Drow d6 and raise they're Will saves to good.
Fuzzy_Logic 02-27-06, 11:57 AM	*Bump* by the way, Can someone help me witht eh code tags so i cna go back and format my paragons the way Jaerom does his? (incidentally, does anyone have any comments on them?) also, I'm still not certain about Gnome paragon. it seems weak compared even to bar,d which is nto a good start... finally, how about Assassin for the tiefling prestige? (or, if using magic of incarnum, umbral disciple)
Jaerom Darkwind 03-23-06, 05:21 PM	Why do the Drow get d8 HP when other elves get only d6? I would give the Drow d6 and raise they're Will saves to good. I defaulted to racial HD and saves unless I had a compelling reason not to.
Rand alThor 04-11-06, 01:59 AM	Jaerom, you never cease to amaze me. First, I am shown the proper paladin, and now I am determined to take the half-celestial paragon. I do have one question. What was that whole, "Half-Celestial Prestige" thing? A work still in progress? A work abandoned? I'm interested to know.
Jaerom Darkwind 04-11-06, 12:44 PM	Most of the paragons currently lack a prestige feature, and they may never get one. Ignore it in those cases.
CowMasterTrojan 04-27-06, 01:59 AM	I gotta say I really like these. I especially like the half-dragon and the elf paragons. Nice work.
AT-AT Assault 06-04-06, 12:44 PM	It'll take me a while to read through this, but it looks overall to be a good job. :clap: Edit: These are so good that I may want to include them in a d20 supplement Im working on. How should I cite you in the COPYRIGHT NOTICE section of the OGL?
Jaerom Darkwind 06-04-06, 06:42 PM	PM me and explain what that means.
Kobayashi_Maru 07-04-06, 01:00 PM	........Look at my doppelganger paragon. Where's this one, I can't find it? Maybe I could get a link!? Are there any or will there be any other paragons coming out? Like the Illumian, or Raptorian?
Jaerom Darkwind 07-04-06, 02:50 PM	http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=96&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=27 And I may revisit the racial paragon concept again at some point, yes.
hepcatmerkin 07-25-06, 02:38 PM	Not to be pushy or anything, but if anyone has time, I would like to see ideas for a Thri-Kreen racial paragon. Mostly because I like them a whole bunch. Anyways, some ideas I've been tossing around: Extra poison/day, and/or deadlier poison (DC 11+Con mod+paragon levels, maybe? Does 2d4 Dex damage perhaps?) You know how Thri-Kreen are always pictured with two big claws and two smaller claws? Something involved with that. Like perhaps the upper arms deal 1d6 damage instead of 1d4, or are considered to be Powerful Build, or get an extra strength bonus, while the lower ones get a dex bonus. Something like that. Additional jumping bonuses, perhaps another +10--works with the increased skill bonuses that other paragons get. And additionally, I think that at a higher level, Thri Kreen would get Pounce, so they can make a full attack after a jumping charge. Makes sense to me, especially if they get those awesome Jump bonuses. Natural armor increase, of course. Extra psionics/power points/something like that... Perhaps uses of Prevenom or another claw-or-bite based psionic power.. Anyways, thanks, y'all, and I certainly hope that Jaer's paragoning expertise can help me out. Merci.
DavidWL 08-25-06, 01:03 AM	Jaerom, I love your prestige classes -- the flavor is superb, and the balance quite good. I would, however, have to suggest you tone down the Human Pargon. Human Paragon is quite powerful already -- evidenced by the fact that it is often used on the Character Optimization boards. You've given it even more power (better saves, better skills, more flexible spellcasting, full increase in caster level every level, bonus feat at 1st level). The bonus Skill Focus feat is more important than it looks -- this is a feat that is periodically used as a prerequiste for various prestige classes. By giving it as a feat, it is sometimes as good as a free general feat. Taken individually, each of the changes you've made is extremely reasonable and quite fitting. Taken collectively it has made a quite good prestige class overpowered. I think I would make some combination of the following changes: Move Skill Focus to 4th level *or* get rid of it and make the feat at 4th level reasonably flexible (can be Skill Focus, Jack of All Trades, Able Learner, etc.) 1 good save, 2 bad saves -- you choose which Give fewer bonus feats, but, at levels that give spellcasting, you have the choice of either spellcasting, or a bonus feat. (As is done in Eberron for example). Reduce the number of skill points from 6/lvl to 4/lvl. Hmm. I'd probably do 1) and either 2) or 4). The extra levels you added (levels 4 and 5) are quite balanced. The problem is that the early levels were good to start with and you just made them better. The ability to enter prestige classes early is worth quite a bit, but balanced by the fact that not much happen at levels 4 and 5. Overall, wonderful, flavorful and creative. Very Best, David (who has the greatest respect for the work you've done). P.S. For the human paragon you have the following line that could use clarification: "However, the human paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level." What happens if someone uses 1 level of the human paragon to progress clerical casting, 1 level to progress wizard casting, and 1 level to progress Incarnate casting? Do all of them get an increase in caster level of 5? I would argue that the 2 extra caster level increases at 1st and 4th level should also need to be allocated to a spellcasting class of choice.
DavidWL 08-25-06, 01:03 AM	Where's this one, I can't find it? Maybe I could get a link!? Are there any or will there be any other paragons coming out? Like the Illumian, or Raptorian? Illumian are Human subtype -- so they should be able to use the Human Paragon classes (which are really quite fitting anyway). Best, David
Jaerom Darkwind 08-25-06, 06:08 PM	better savesI think the saves balance out, actually. more flexible spellcastingYou lost me there. full increase in caster level every levelI gave that to every class, since the higher you level, the more any break in CL becomes a crippling blow that makes your spellcasting worthless. bonus feat at 1st level. The bonus Skill Focus feat is more important than it looks -- this is a feat that is periodically used as a prerequiste for various prestige classes. By giving it as a feat, it is sometimes as good as a free general feat.Sometimes, but it's also the only class feature at 1st level. Take that away and you're basically running an Expert. Taken individually, each of the changes you've made is extremely reasonable and quite fitting. Taken collectively it has made a quite good prestige class overpowered.You haven't sold me on that yet. 1. Move Skill Focus to 4th level *or* get rid of it and make the feat at 4th level reasonably flexible (can be Skill Focus, Jack of All Trades, Able Learner, etc.)That takes us back to the UA version, where the class is a glorified Expert at 1st level, and completely unsuited for adventuring. That was one of the primary reasons for revising the class in the first place. 2. 1 good save, 2 bad saves -- you choose whichAnd this is less powerful than medium saves because...? 3. Give fewer bonus feats, but, at levels that give spellcasting, you have the choice of either spellcasting, or a bonus feat. (As is done in Eberron for example).I don't like it. It reduces the power of the class drastically as well as the flavor. 4. Reduce the number of skill points from 6/lvl to 4/lvl. Is this really necessary? Or extremely significant? P.S. For the human paragon you have the following line that could use clarification: "However, the human paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in the spellcasting class to determine her caster level." What happens if someone uses 1 level of the human paragon to progress clerical casting, 1 level to progress wizard casting, and 1 level to progress Incarnate casting? Do all of them get an increase in caster level of 5? I would argue that the 2 extra caster level increases at 1st and 4th level should also need to be allocated to a spellcasting class of choice.Yeah, I've been meaning to take a look at that line.
DavidWL 08-26-06, 12:36 AM	I think the saves balance out, actually. You lost me there. 2 perspectives: 1) From a stat prespective: Before: 1 good save (will) and 2 poor saves = 4+1+1 = 6 pionts worth of saves. After: 3 medium saves = 3+3+3 = 9 points worth of saves 2) From a usage point of view: Before: Your strong save (will) is probably going to be really strong since you'll end up taking levels in spellcasting classes anyway. Probably either your reflex or your will save will be mediocre After: You have shifted some of your high save to your lower save, helping round out gaps. I gave that to every class, since the higher you level, the more any break in CL becomes a crippling blow that makes your spellcasting worthless. I'm just saying that giving a couple of extra caster levels was a power-up. I'm not questioning your reasoning. Sometimes, but it's also the only class feature at 1st level. Take that away and you're basically running an Expert. True. I guess I would say move a level of spellcasting up or move one of the attribute bonuses up. Once again, I wasn't saying you were wrong to model the class after the UA classes (I think that was a great decision from a compatibility point of view). I'm saying this was a pure power-up. You haven't sold me on that yet. I'll try to do this in the next post a different way. That takes us back to the UA version, where the class is a glorified Expert at 1st level, and completely unsuited for adventuring. That was one of the primary reasons for revising the class in the first place. And this is less powerful than medium saves because...? I don't like it. It reduces the power of the class drastically as well as the flavor. Is this really necessary? Or extremely significant? I'm not saying that my fixes were the right way to go -- I was suggesting possibilities because I've always thought it rude to critique something, suggesting flaws, without also suggesting solutions. Best, David
DavidWL 08-26-06, 01:03 AM	Ok. Before I argued that you added a lot of reasonable benefits to an already balanced class, making it overpowered. You didn't buy that. Instead, I'll now compare it to a few of the core classes. I'm tempted to compare it to all of them, but too lazy, so I'll just compare to a combat type (Alphabetically, barbarian is the first), a gish (Bard), a skillmonkey (rogue), and a caster (Wizard). Human Paragon Vs. Barbarian 5 (Apply +2 to Con and +2 to Str) -1 Attack bonus +1 Damage (all the time, not just in rage) -5 HP +3 Saves +Skill Focus, Adaptive Learning, Choice of 10 skills, Jack of All Trades -Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rage *2, Trap Sense, Fast Movement +16 Skill points +1 free bonus feat So far, we're roughly even -- the human paragon is about balanced with the Barbarian. Perhaps slightly in the Human Paragon's favor, but it is a close call. But then ... + 3 levels of casting, and 5 CL Winner: Human Paragon Human Paragon Vs. Bard +5 HP Comparable spellcasting Comparable skill points and skill selection Comparable saves - Bardic music, bardic knowledge +Skill Focus, Adaptive Learning, Jack of All Trades, Bonus Feat So far about even ... but then ... +4 any stat Winner: Human Paragon Human Paragon vs. Rogue w/ +2 Int, +2 str o Almost Comparable skills (Human paragon loses 8 skill points, but also gets an addition +1 to all intelligence based skills). - trapfinding & trap sense + Skill Focus, Adaptive Learning, Jack of All Trades - evasion & uncanny dodge +5 HP +3 Saves - 3D6 sneak attack + 1 free feat + 1 to hit, + 1 damage roughly even ... and then ... +3 casting w/ +5 caster level Winner: Human Paragon Human Paragon vs. Wizard w/ +4 to Int - Casting: Same CL, Wizard gets an extra 2nd level spell and a 3rd level spell (where the human paragon doesn't get 3rd level spells). However, the DC of the human paragon's spells is +2 higher. The wizard is the clear winner, but the human paragon isn't half bad. + Human paragon is better in every other way (Saves, skills, HP, combat, etc.) Winner (I think): Human Paragon. Conclusion Frankly, the *only* base class which might stand a good chance against the human paragon (in my opinion) is the Cleric -- the single most powerful low-level character. Let's try that out: Human Paragon vs. Cleric w/ +4 Wis - Casting: human paragon loses 2 levels worth of spells: winner cleric + bonus feat comparable saves comparable HP comparable BAB - 2 domains + Skill Focus, Adaptive Learning, Jack of All Trades + Significantly better skills (more skills, but also much better skill list) Tie Conclusion: The only base class which is comparable vs. the human paragon is the single strongest. In all of my examples I played against the comparing classes strengths. However, if instead of customizing the human paragon so that it could compare to other classes, you customized it to take advatage of it's strengths, it would be more powerful yet. Play the human paragon as a double or triple threat instead of as a 2nd rate caster or fighter, and the human paragon will come into its own, even beating out the Cleric for power.
Hassassin 08-26-06, 03:17 PM	Isn't there a half-fey paragon? If not, con you give some ideas to create it?
Jaerom Darkwind 08-26-06, 07:03 PM	However, if instead of customizing the human paragon so that it could compare to other classes, you customized it to take advatage of it's strengths, it would be more powerful yet. Play the human paragon as a double or triple threat instead of as a 2nd rate caster or fighter, and the human paragon will come into its own, even beating out the Cleric for power.Elaborate, please.
Jaerom Darkwind 08-26-06, 07:04 PM	Isn't there a half-fey paragon? If not, con you give some ideas to create it? I don't know enough about the half-fey to say.
Hassassin 08-26-06, 07:11 PM	It's online here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a
DavidWL 08-27-06, 05:09 AM	Elaborate, please. Instead of having the Human paragon try to be a cleric, have the human paragon try to be a human paragon (a great generalist). Something like: Human Paragon 5 1 caster level Incarnate 1 caster level Totemist 1 caster level Binder, (instead of cleric casting 3) Put the attribute bonues in, for example, dexterity or perhaps intelligence. (instead of wisdom). You get more bang for your buck. Use the bonus feat to take "Bonus Essentia" or something else that increases overall viability. Later on continue with Chameleon 10. Play an illumian wih the UrrKrau word (and buff Dex). Etc. If you play the above, you'll wipe the floor with your standard Cleric 5 or Cleric 15 (which is already a powerful build). Now I really like the subtle ways you've varied the rules, powered up the human paragon, etc., but it does make it more powerful than any of the other base classes. The cleric can do some cool stuff some of the time, the human paragon can do a lot of cool stuff all of the time. Does this better explain the text you quoted? David P.S. I don't think the human paragon is a lot too powerful -- only a little too powerful.
Jaerom Darkwind 08-27-06, 06:19 PM	Instead of having the Human paragon try to be a cleric, have the human paragon try to be a human paragon (a great generalist).That's what I usually do with it in character builds, although I must admit that I prefer the non-spellcasting version most of the time (even though I initially resisted designing it, now that I have it I find it to be quite useful). Anyway, that's what I thought you meant, I was just curious how you'd go about doing it (my favorite combo was Archivist/Wizard/Erudite, although I've done interesting things with soulmelders; also, I suspect that there may be classes in ToB that would make very effective dips). Is totemist or binder really that much better than more main-stream classes? I admit I've never given them a great deal of attention. As far as powering it down goes, the two ability boons aren't meant to be applicable to the same ability score, so I'll fix that. That should tone down your comparative builds slightly. I'm also considering removing the clause that states that the whole class level adds to CL instead of clarifying it, because even though every other racial paragon gets it, humans are means to be generalists, and that means not as good as specialists at a given task. The uneven saves idea isn't a bad one either, increasing customizability while reducing power a tad. Just how big a power gap are you talking about here?
DavidWL 08-28-06, 02:11 AM	Anyway, that's what I thought you meant, I was just curious how you'd go about doing it (my favorite combo was Archivist/Wizard/Erudite, It's amazingly cool from a casting versatility point of view, but so terribly difficult to get sufficient caster levels to cast any significant number of spells. although I've done interesting things with soulmelders; also, I suspect that there may be classes in ToB that would make very effective dips). Is totemist or binder really that much better than more main-stream classes? I admit I've never given them a great deal of attention. When taking many levels, Incarnate, Totemist and Binder are much worse. For just a few levels, they're much better. What happens is that a low level cleric or wizard can cast a few weak spells. A low level totemist 1/incarnate 1 can do a whole lot, all day long. (4 soulmelds w/ +1 essentia with the bonus essentia feat. 4 of:+2 to a bonus of choice, +2D6 fire aura, +4 to 3 skills, etc.) At high levels, the caster wins, but we don't really want to dedicate that many levels to casting. Also, those few levels of incarnate scale, eventually allow +10 to lots of skills, +5 to a combat stat of choice, etc. The binder isn't great, but it is good. I just wanted the extra variety -- and for just 1 CL, you can get a fair amount (all day long). There are a couple of binds which are good for combat or skills. I just figured that 1 more soulmeld (from a 2nd level of incarnate or totemist) wasn't going to beat 1 bind. Anyway, the short story is that, for low-level dips, the Incarnate and Totemist are great. They can help almost all your abilities a reasonable amount, and it scales upwards as you gain level. Incarnate up to 3rd or 4th level and totemist up to 2nd level. ...regarding tome of battle I just bought it am starting to look at it. There are definitely a few things that stand out. I'd post, but I really haven't finished reading. As far as powering it down goes, the two ability boons aren't meant to be applicable to the same ability score, so I'll fix that. That should tone down your comparative builds slightly. I'm also considering removing the clause that states that the whole class level adds to CL instead of clarifying it, because even though every other racial paragon gets it, humans are means to be generalists, and that means not as good as specialists at a given task. The uneven saves idea isn't a bad one either, increasing customizability while reducing power a tad. Ah -- I didn't realize you didn't mean to allow the ability boons to stack. All of your possible fixes will help and seem reasonable. Just how big a power gap are you talking about here? Not too big a power gap. Really, I'm thinking that it just needs to be toned down a little, so that instead of being able to compete with the cleric (for example) at it's own game, it is clearly inferior (at that). If you do the things you list above, I'd think that would make it balanced. It would still be a bit on the powerful side -- however, frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I think the trick is to avoid being *too* poweful. Does that answer your question?
DavidWL 08-28-06, 02:25 AM	Also, in terms of enhancement -- it seems like you really did intend that those caster levels of human paragon advance almost anything (binding, incarnate using classes, divine and arcane casting, Tome of Battle manuevers, Psionics, etc.). I completely agree, but this means a few lines for each of the new magics stating what is advanced might be cool/useful. Examples: Incarnum using classes: It probably advances soulmelds, chakra binds and essentia, but does it also advance which chakras you can use? Binder: It probably advances binder level, but does it also advance the number of binds you can have? Tome of Battle: It probably advances manuevers known and readied, but does it also advance stances known? Etc.
Galahdeon 09-04-06, 01:47 PM	ok i have to say thanks for the paragon and yes i am one of the few that play halfling and not just a rogue. well i have to say nice on it, though one thing instead of the +2 to Cha you can also give them a +2 to int they do rely on cunning rather than strength. i belive int fitts them better though for some cha is just as good. thanks
Fuzzy_Logic 09-08-06, 07:12 PM	I think the requirement to have Human Paragon increase two DIFFERENT stats is both flavorful and balancing. However, I lik ethe power levle where it is. It's true, this is a VERY strong class. But when you consider what it's good AT, i think the overall effect is good for the game. what this class basically does, in my opinion, is allow you to play a fighter, spellcaster, or any type of character with virtually full effectiveness, plus a bunch of cool skills. This is a good trade-off, but I like making it available. Why? I like skills. I want more characters to have mroe of them. Those determiend to be as outright powerful as possible will still take the specialized classes for their job--cleric, wizard, even barbarian or fighter if they want to be a melee machine. This guy has his niche, but he's not replacing other classes-- four human paragons is an exercise in mediocrity.
Fuzzy_Logic 09-08-06, 07:14 PM	On another note, Gnome Paragon is still SERIOUSLY underpowered. It's really, unimaginably bad. Personally, if you want my advice, I'd dispense with spellcasting all togehter and make it a ranger-like warrior with high-level illusion spell-like abilities. But that's just me. regardless, as it is, it has the worst basic statistics of all your paragons, plus 3/5 BARD spellcasting, and poor fourth level features. Plus, to the poster who asked for raptoran Paragon: I had one lying around somewhere, I'll try to dig it out if ya'll want me to.
madmonk 09-11-06, 10:52 AM	Jaerom Darkwind, you racial paragons rock. Could you make a shadowswyft paragon? And what about a spirit folk paragon (just one, not one for each type)? If you don't have the time, could you at lest give suggestions to them? Also, some people (for example, my group) use variant aasimar/tiefling, and give them a different spell-like ability and/or different racial bonuses. Could you suggest on appropriate benefits for those kind of planetouched? (I suppose different abilities for tha score bonuses for balance, with the sole exception of the air genasi). Also, for the fire genasi, wouldn't it be better that the fire bonus be given to any fire-based effect derived from class features? for example, desert wind maneuvres from tome of battle or the many energy psionic powers? Keep on the cool work!
Jaerom Darkwind 09-15-06, 07:49 PM	Jaerom Darkwind, you racial paragons rock. Could you make a shadowswyft paragon? And what about a spirit folk paragon (just one, not one for each type)? If you don't have the time, could you at lest give suggestions to them?I don't know what those races are, and in any case, I'm not currently working on new paragons. Feel free to devise your own. I think with the body I've built up here some patterns should be obvious. Also, some people (for example, my group) use variant aasimar/tiefling, and give them a different spell-like ability and/or different racial bonuses. Could you suggest on appropriate benefits for those kind of planetouched? (I suppose different abilities for tha score bonuses for balance, with the sole exception of the air genasi).I couldn't say. Also, for the fire genasi, wouldn't it be better that the fire bonus be given to any fire-based effect derived from class features? for example, desert wind maneuvres from tome of battle or the many energy psionic powers?No, because sorcerer is their favored class. The bonus against fire does apply to all effects from all sources.
HK-47 II 12-27-06, 04:05 PM	Spirit Folk are from Oriental Adventures, Like the Hengeyokai.... If you ever work on them again try a Nezumi paragon (aka Ratlings, same book) unless ones already been made or someone else wants to do it? I'd try myself but I'm bad at normal classes, so... To everyone else sorry for dragging up a post from September, but... uh...
honestiago 01-15-07, 06:24 PM	I truely like your paragons, however, the one thing the bothers me (not just with yours but the also the OGL ones) is the specific class based spellcasting levels gained, such as wizard (elves, half-elves) and bard (gmones). Since there are so many new core spell casting classes out there, it would be nice to, have just grant a basic +1 Arcane spellcasting level" for races such as gnomes and elves The paragons were based soley on the PH races/Classes, so for isntance, a Wild Elf paragon (favored class sorcerer) does not benefit from the wizard's spellcasting level as with the beguiler, a new, Gnome favorite. Plus I think the Half-Elf should get a "+1 Arcane or Divine spellcasting level". I haven't seen to many Half-Elf wizards out there. These changes could make the paragons beneficial to all sub-classes of the races and when utilitizing the many new classes. Just my thought, what do you think?
Jaerom Darkwind 01-15-07, 06:46 PM	If a race's favored class is a spellcasting class, that race's paragon gets spellcasting of the same type. Wizardry is in an elf's blood--that's what it means to have a favored class. Warmagery, to pull an example out of the air, is not in an elf's blood. To be the perfect elf, the symbol of all that is elven, one must know wizardry, not warlockery. In fact, elf paragons study in the most ancient elven tradition, and are required to use the elven wizard substitution level. While gnomes are a poorly-designed race and don't really have a definable racial identity, bard is their favored class, so bard is what they advance. IF beguiler were the favored class of the gnomes, the paragon would incorporate that--and take a hit elsewhere, because the class is balanced on the premise that it will have only second-rate spellcasting. As far as half-elves go, being a half-elf paragon means striking a harmonious balance between one's two-fold ancestry. They combine the orthodox wizardry of their elven forefathers and the versatility of their human forefathers, and can advance in whatever sort of wizard levels they wish (including specializing). Basing an argument against this system on bizarre elven mutations really isn't very convincing.
Lord_Yy 01-24-07, 07:48 PM	Jaerom: I find your work on Racial Paragons to be amazing, and once I figure out how to correctly format a class on the Wizards boards, I'd like to post one or two of my own on here. I've already got ideas for a Warforged Paragon class.
mattdusty 03-06-07, 10:25 AM	Hobgoblin, Goliath, Kobald, and Drow are completed, and all I need to do is type them up and format them. Look for them tomorrow or saturday. Where is the Goliath? Did that get scrapped or can I just not find it anywhere in these threads?
Jaerom Darkwind 03-06-07, 09:01 PM	I don't think I ever finished it.
Segan 03-12-07, 02:04 PM	How does that Paragon mechanic work? Does the character gain a Paragon level when she gains a new level, like taking a level in two classes simultaneously? And does the ability boost stack with the ability boost granted when gaining a character level divisible by 4?
Jaerom Darkwind 03-12-07, 06:33 PM	How does that Paragon mechanic work? Does the character gain a Paragon level when she gains a new level, like taking a level in two classes simultaneously?No, they're just classes like any other. You take levels of the appropriate one just like you would any other class. And does the ability boost stack with the ability boost granted when gaining a character level divisible by 4?Yes.
Segan 03-13-07, 02:59 AM	Then it would be possible to create a Level 20 Paragon? But then it would be too powerful, I guess... Another question: Is it also possible to combine Paragon levels with Bloodline levels?
Jaerom Darkwind 03-13-07, 12:00 PM	Paragon classes only have 5 levels.
Segan 03-13-07, 12:08 PM	Doesn't the book Unearthed Arcana say there are only 3 levels for Paragon classes? The Dwarf Paragon in your first posts even gets Str as his first ability boost instead of Con, as stated in Unearthed Arcana. The way I see, you simply altered the Paragon templates and added two levels. So I assumed, it would be possible to take more Paragon levels.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-13-07, 12:23 PM	No, I completely rebuilt the classes (hence, the title of the thread). All similarities you see are due to the fact that I recycled a lot of abilities.
Vrykolakas 03-22-07, 09:47 PM	my favorite combo was Archivist/Wizard/EruditeIn the spirit of this combo, coul you tell me what you think of the Conflux Prestige Class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=810315) I created? Thank you for looking.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-22-07, 10:54 PM	It's kind of nice I suppose, but I prefer a chameleon build (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2004) if I'm going for that level of versatility.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-20-07, 05:49 AM	Okay, this one is fairly straight-forward. I mentioned some time ago that I've changed elans to Outsiders (Native) in my world. In this class, I offer tribute to their original conceptualization as aberrations in the HD, BAB, and save progressions. Their racial traits all revolve around their psionically-charged bodies, so the class features augment them; their favored class is psion, so they get some of that, too. I incorporated the elan racial feat from Untapped Potential at 2nd level and minor telepathy at 4th to expand this theme further and add one more dose of cool. Finally, I decided to compel the 1st and 3rd level elan psion racial substitution levels, also found in Untapped Potential, as I did with the elven wizard substitution level, and possibly in a few other places. There's still one more elan racial feat, Elan Retainment or some such from Complete Psionic, but you'll have to nail that one on your own if you want to be the ultimate Elan. TABLE 1-1: THE ELAN PARAGON HIT DIE: d8 FORT REF WILL LVL BAB SAVE SAVE SAVE SPECIAL POWERS KNOWN 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Improved resilience, improved -- resistance 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Renewal +1 psion level 3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Ability boost (+2 Int) +1 psion level 4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Improved repletion, telepathy (100 ft.) -- 5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Ability boost (+2 Wis) +1 psion level Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Autohypnosis, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Profession, Psicraft, Sense Motive, Spot, and Use Psionic Device. CLASS FEATURES All of the following are class features of the elan paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Elan paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor. Powers Known: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level, an elan paragon gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in psion. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a psion would have gained. This essentially means that she adds these levels of elan paragon to her levels in psion, and then determines her power points per day and powers known accordingly. However, the elan paragon adds her entire class level to her levels in psion to determine her manifester level. If the elan paragon has no levels in psion, she may begin gaining psionic ability from that class (she is considered to have a class level of 0, to which she adds these bonus levels). In this case, her progression as a psion follows a path unique to her race. She knows one fewer power than a psion of her level, learning only two powers at 2nd level. However, when the elan paragon manifests a power, the power points spent are retained in her form for a bried period of time, and are available to power her racial abilities (resilience, repletion, and resistence) until the start of her next turn. Additionally, at 5th level an elan paragon is not limited to the psion power list when choosing one of her powers known. The other power gained at that level must be from her class list, as normal. An elan paragon must meet any campaign-specific prerequisites for entering and advancing in the psion class normally. Improved Resilience (Su): As an immediate action, an elan paragon can reduce the damage she is about to take by 4 points for every 1 power point spent. She can also reduce impending ability damage or ability drain by 1 point for every 2 power points she spends. This does not allow an elan paragon to reduce ability burn. Improved Resistance (Su): As an immediate action, an elan paragon can spend 1 power point to gain a +6 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next turn. Renewal (Su): Once per day, while an elan paragon of 2nd level or higher maintains her psionic focus, she may spend 2 power points to enter a psionic trance similar to her nightly trances (although she remains conscious) by spending 1 minute in concentration in a calm environment. While in such a trance, the elan paragon may take no actions, her body floats a short distance off the ground, light pours from her eyes and mouth (providing shadowy illumination out to 30 ft), and an unnatural bass hum resonates around her. Once a trance starts, the elan paragon remains in this state for 10 minutes; nothing short of falling unconscious or dying can end it prematurely. Every minute she remains in this trance, she recovers a number of hit points equal to her Constitution bonus (minimum 1). At the end of the trance, any fatigue or exhaustion she has suffered is removed, and the elan paragon recovers one power point per character level. However, entering a renewal trance is draining mentally. After using this ability, the elan paragon must trance for twice as long the following night (8 hours) to gain the normal benefits of a night’s sleep. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, an elan paragon gains a +2 racial bonus to Intelligence. At 5th level, she gains a +2 racial bonus to Wisdom. Improved Repletion (Su): Beginning at 4th level, an elan paragon never needs to eat or drink again, and instead can rely entirely on her psionic metabolism to provide optimum nutrition and hydration. In addition, if she spends 1 power point, an elan does not need to breathe for 24 hours. Telepathy: Beginning at 4th level, an elan paragon can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language.
CowMasterTrojan 09-26-07, 12:00 PM	:bump: don't want such a great resource to die
Jaerom Darkwind 09-26-07, 09:22 PM	Hey, thanks. :)
Jaerom Darkwind 12-16-07, 05:04 PM	Here's one that apparently never got posted: Okay, I was perusing my Monsters of Faerun and I started looking at the Greater Doppelgänger listed there. I noticed that it had 5 additional racial HD, some extra abilities, and three ability score adjustments (Dex +4, Int +4, Wis +2) beyond the regular model. Then it occurred to me that this was exactly the recipe for a paragon class (the extra +2 being bonuses from his 9 HD). So I thought I'd see if we could eliminate the extra monster and replace him with a paragon class. Andy Collins says that races with LAs can have more powerful paragons, and these have a +4, so I don't think the power is excessive here. The results are almost identical to the actual Greater Doppelgänger. I'm quite pleased with the final product, and may try this same tactic with other races that come in lesser and greater. DOPPELGÄNGER PARAGON (Doppelgänger) Alignment: Any. HD: d8. Fort Ref Will Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Immunities, improved change shape 2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Magic item use, polymorph rend 3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Ability boost (Int +4) 4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Consume personality 5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Ability boost (Dex +4) Class Skills The doppelgänger paragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (Int), and Spot (Wis). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Higher Levels: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the doppelgänger paragon. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Doppelgänger paragons gain no additional weapon or armor proficiency. Immunities (Ex): A doppelgänger paragon is immune to hold effects, mind-affecting spells, and effects that detect alignment. Improved Shape Change (Ex): A doppelgänger paragon has increased ability to change its form. Its racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks improves to +8. It can also ignore the normal penalty on Disguise checks when disguising itself as a different race (see the Disguise skill description, page 72 of the Player's Handbook). In addition, when the doppelgänger paragon assumes the form of a humanoid creature, it can emulate any of that humanoid's subtypes. Though it does not gain any of the humanoid's traits, it is considered to be a member of that race for all other purposes (allowing it to use magic items or spells keyed to race, for example). It can only emulate one race at a time, and always retains the shapechanger subtype. Magic Item Use (Ex): No matter what its form, a doppelgänger paragon of 2nd level or higher can use magic items. Polymorph Rend (Sp): At 2nd level, a doppelgänger paragon achieves greater mastery of form. It can make a touch attack against a being that is presently enchanted by a spell of the Polymorph subschool cast by someone other than the doppelgänger paragon itself. This touch attack inflicts 6d6 damage on the polymorphed creature. Ability Boost: At 3rd level, a doppelgänger paragon increases her racial bonus to Intelligence by +4. At 5th level, she increases her racial bonus to Dexterity likewise. Consume Identity (Su): Beginning at 4th level, a doppelgänger paragon who eats the brain of a Medium or smaller humanoid victim absorbs the mind, memories, and personality of that victim. After consuming a victim’s identity, the doppelgänger paragon can assume the victim’s form with 100% accuracy and possess the victim’s memories, abilities, and alignment. The only exceptions are cleric spells of 2nd level or greater, a paladin’s special abilities, and other abilities that are granted by the gods. When a doppelgänger paragon that has already consumed three or more personalities consumes another, it must make a Will save (DC 16) to avoid losing a random personality from those it consumed earlier. In any case, the doppelgänger paragon cannot have more consumed identities than it has Hit Dice, losing a random identity from its earlier pool if it tries to exceed that limit. If a doppelgänger paragon “wearing “ one of its consumed identities commits an act that runs counter to that form’s alignment, it is immediately forced into its base form for 1d10 rounds. In its base form, a doppelgänger paragon retains the basic memories of all the identities it has consumed, though not deeper memories. Memories from previously consumed identities that have been forced out by new identities fade quickly. Doppelgänger Prestige: Doppelgänger paragons favor the Chameleon and Master Transmogrifist prestige classes.