Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cbones 02-19-04, 08:48 PM	Perhaps I am blind, but I can not seem to find any rules in the Unearthed about how a Ring of Wizardry would affect spell points. It mentions things that "Recall" a cast spell, but nothing about items that double the ammount of spells you can cast on a certian level. Would you just add the extra spell points? Ie... second level spells....can cast 4 extra...so you would get 8 extra spell points? Any ideas? Or maybe someone could point me to a page in the book that specifically talks about how it affects spell point totals. Thanks in advance!!
DarkTouch 02-19-04, 09:09 PM	From the SRD, replace all references to Crystal Capacitor with 'Ring of Wizardry'. Crystal Capacitors Crystal capacitors store power points that psionic characters can use to pay for manifesting their powers. Physical Description: A crystal capacitor consists of a core crystal and two or three smaller crystals, arranged on strands of wire, in specific positions around it. The crystals give off a faint glow. A typical crystal capacitor weighs approximately 1 pound, has an AC of 7, 10 hit points, a hardness of 8, and a break DC of 16. Activation: The user must project a command thought to unlock power points stored in a crystal capacitor. This allows the use of the points to manifest psionic powers the user knows. The maximum number of points a crystal capacitor can store is always an odd number, and is never more than 17. It can never store more power points than its original maximum, set at the time of its creation. Once a crystal capacitor’s power points are used up, its crystals dim. However, the user can recharge it by paying power points on a 1-for-1 basis. While this depletes the user’s own power point reserve for the day, those power points remain available in the crystal capacitor until used. A user cannot directly replenish personal power points from those stored in a crystal capacitor, nor can the user draw power points from more than one source to manifest a power or attack/defense mode. Random Generation: To generate crystal capacitors randomly, roll on Table: Crystal Capacitors. Special Qualities: Roll d%. A 01–25 result indicates that the command thought is mentally encoded and whispers itself into the user’s mind on acquisition, and 26–100 indicates no special qualities. Table: Crystal Capacitors Maximum Power Minor Medium Major Point Storage Market Price 01–100 01–40 — 1 1,000 gp — 41–74 — 3 4,000 gp — 75–89 01–39 5 9,000 gp — 90–98 40–59 7 16,000 gp — 99–100 60–69 9 25,000 gp — — 70–70 11 36,000 gp — — 80–89 13 49,000 gp — — 90–95 15 64,000 gp — — 96–100 17 81,000 gp
Elanith 02-20-04, 03:06 PM	couple problems i see with using rules for crystal capacitors as a rule set for rings of wizardry: 1. Rings of wizardry can only be used by wizards, if you convert thier "ability" to nothing more then a sp battery then why wouldnt sorc be able to use it. It was designed to give the wizard more spells of that given level to cast...which brings me to... 2. Rings of wizardry DOUBLE the number of spells at the specified level, upwards of 4 extra spells of that level....so do you say rings of Wiz IV give 19 sp X number of 4th level spells the wizard can cast....that has 2 problems, that seems like a LOT of sp and two its way to convoluted. So we have two options, completely rewrite the rings of wizardry or to leave them as is. I would love to hear more options, as i do have ring of wiz IV and its posible that we will be moving over to a Spell Point system and GM wanted some advice...and right now im devided it could realy go both ways...thanks for the help.
stone_dog 02-20-04, 03:24 PM	Now that just isn't right either. A ring of wizardry doubles the wearers arcane spells. Bard, sorcerer and wizard are all arcane casters so the ring works for all three. There is nothing that says only a wizard can use it. I think it should have been called an Arcanist Ring, but the name was traditional, so it stuck. Personally, I wouldn't have them anymore with the spell points. They wouldn't work quite right in my book. Instead I would have something like each level of ring suck up one of the points used to power up a spell by level. Normally for 5 points you get a 5d6 fireball, but with a ring of wizardry I you could get a free extra point and launch a 6d6 fireball. However that might be a bit much and I would definatly have to playtest this.
Elanith 02-20-04, 03:35 PM	bangs head on table...my bad. your right works for all arcane casters, was too lazy to look it up...sigh....anyway that is a nice idea, and it would require some playtesting. one problem i see, is then rings of wizardry would only work for spellcasters that deal damage, it would become useless for anyone else. Admitidly most casters pick up a few damage spells but many including myself tend to use a lot of other spells then damaing spells in combat, and the ring just went from being very usefull to not very with this alteration. suggestions?
stone_dog 02-20-04, 03:45 PM	Good point, but a lot of spells also depend on level for duration and range. You are right in that it would be a bit one sided though. I'd want to keep away from comparing it to a capacitor though since I plan on making use of the new Psionics book. If psionics are not a part of your game at all then it might be a decent fix. Maybe you could alter Rods of Metamagic from Tome & Blood along these lines too. As for the ring though. It is tricky. Multiplying the normal number of spell slots by the point cost of that level of spell is a bit much. How about something a little more balanced. Five times per day you can cast a spell of X level without spending any spell points. That is an average of the max spell slots of wizard and sorcerer and would give bards a bit of a boost in the process.
Elanith 02-20-04, 03:58 PM	The problem tho is, level is already = Caster Level except for damage. Damage is the only thing that doesnt function at max level. I too want to keep away from comparing it to a capacitor, i can see how it kinda compares but they are definately very different things. Capacitors store a certain amount of energy to be used, where a RoW brings out more power in teh caster himself. Im definately coming froma wizards standpoint as thats is what i usualy play, so the question for me is: 1) should the ring grant more SP or grant more spells that can be memorized? 2) should they give different abilities to wiz and sor? 3) should there be different types of rings, those that grant bonus spells known/mem and those that grant bonus SP?
stone_dog 02-20-04, 04:19 PM	This is going to need some serious thought i can see. Well lets take a look at the book for a moment. Huh... my turn to be mistaken. But that does make it easier on healing spells then. Anyway, on to your options. 1) I really do like the more memorized spells idea, but that would only apply to wizards. Bards and sorcerers wouldn't suddenly have knowlege of more spells with this system, but for something without spontaneous casters (Arcana Unearthed) that would work great. That being said for standard D&D we should probably focus on more spell points in some way or removing rings all together. Or maybe rings would increase the bonus points for high abilities? A ring type I would give a +2 for the purpose of spell points only, type II would give a +4 and so on? No, that doesn't sound right, but something along those lines should work. 2) I don't think that would be right. Something like this should give a bonus to all arcane classes. 3)That seems awkward and would force wizards to burn both ring slots to increase their full potential, but a ring that increases spell slots (becoming a TRUE ring of wizardry) and a seperate item to increase SP (a sorcerers rod perhaps) would be pretty smooth.
stone_dog 02-20-04, 04:43 PM	Ring of Wizardry. Doubles the number of spells allowed to be memorized each day by type. Type I doubles 1st level spells and so on. Amulet of prodigious faith. Ring of Wizardry for god botherers. Rod of Arcane Might- each level of rod provides one spell point for the purpose of increasing the damage of a spell. Also available in divine flavor. Sorcerer's hat. Gives double the spell points of a sorcerer of its level. Level one provides 6 points, level two provides ten and so on. Comes in wizard and clerical types to if desired. Sorcerer hats are usually stylish skull caps, wizard hats are usually wide brimmed and pointy and cleric hats are high and pointy ala pope hats. these are just rough options to go over and flesh out. I am way too tired and sickly to be going over prices and appropriate creator levels and such things.
Spellhunter 02-20-04, 08:27 PM	I agree with the last poster. A ring of wizardry should double the number of spells that a wizard can prepare. So if a wizard could prepare 3 2nd level spells then he can then prepare 3 more spells per day of 2nd level. As an added bonus it might be interesting to contain within the ring enough points to cast each of these spells once per day. The problem is then on the sorcerers, because they dont prepare spells. That would mean they would lose the option to use an item of great power..... and that makes the sorcerer weaker than it already is with the power point system. Another idea could be to have rings of wizardry work like advanced rings of spell storing. So they might contain a number of spells dependent on the caster. Here is another idea, Ring of wizardry I this ring grants the wearer several free castings of first level spells. It will yield as many free castings as 1st level spells that (in case of wizard) the caster has prepared, or in case of sorcerers and bards, the caster has as many free castings as spells he knows . so on and so forth
Cathon 02-20-04, 08:36 PM	Ring of Wizardry X Stores spell points of total (X*Some level dependant number). If used in casting a spell of more than X level, has a chance equal to (Spell Level - X) x 10% of burning out part of the ring, and reducing it to a ring of Wizardry X-1. How about something like that?
stilleon 02-20-04, 08:50 PM	Either a ring of wizardry should either allow the wizard to prepare double the spells on his daily spell list or/and you can pick one of the two following ideas (whichever you like better): 1. Let you cast the spells of that level as if that cost one level less. In this case a Ring of Wizardry II allows you to cast 2nd level spells for 1 point each. 2. Spells of that level cost half (though you will have to count half spell points). A ring of wizardry II allows you to cast your 2nd level spells for 1.5 points each. Note: For either of these points for variable effects cost the same. For example, Wizzo the 5th Level Wizard casts fireball at his level for 5d6 damage. He has a ring of wizardry III so this costs him 1.5 + 2 = 3.5 points instead of 3 + 2 = 5 points.
stone_dog 02-20-04, 09:00 PM	Originally posted by Spellhunter Here is another idea, Ring of wizardry I this ring grants the wearer several free castings of first level spells. It will yield as many free castings as 1st level spells that (in case of wizard) the caster has prepared, or in case of sorcerers and bards, the caster has as many free castings as spells he knows . so on and so forth I like that one. Nice work.
DarkTouch 02-20-04, 09:14 PM	I like the free manifestation as well. Its a good option. Just remeber though that you're still going to have to spend spell points if you want to scale your power upwards. To use the example in the book.. your 7th level wizard is still going to have to spend 2 spell points to raise his 5d6 dice fireball up to 7d6.
stone_dog 02-20-04, 09:54 PM	Oh yes, completely. You would only get the points for casting the spell unaltered. I think we have a winner!
Ricardo Martinez Garza 02-20-04, 10:02 PM	I think the best option is to leave the RIng of Wizardry Description asi is, it works just fine. A wizard can prepare twice the number of x level spells, so in spell point terms, spells of x level are 1/2 cost. No doubt this would make this magic item even more powerful than before, no doubt powerful wizards would kill lesser wizards to get hold of such woundrous item :D
stone_dog 02-20-04, 10:57 PM	That is an option, but that actually increases the item's power a great deal and brings up the "do you round up or down" issue. Also we have the 1st level spells. would you really want to have half points running around? It will take some playtesting to flesh it out, but Spellhunter's way seems more balanced and in tune with the origional feel and flavor of the item.
Ricardo Martinez Garza 02-20-04, 11:21 PM	Originally posted by stone_dog That is an option, but that actually increases the item's power a great deal and brings up the "do you round up or down" issue. Also we have the 1st level spells. would you really want to have half points running around? I don't see why make it less powerful, simply make it more rare/available at higher levels/highter cost to produce. I don't see why having half points would be a problem, you would spend that half point with another spell of the same level. The WCS is having just 0.5 Spell Points Left, though luck, let her cast a cantrip with it; they are 0 level spells, it makes sense that they cost less than 1 Spell Point :D
DarkTouch 02-20-04, 11:40 PM	Well.. for one, do you round the cost down or up. Since all Spell costs are odd numbers you will ALWAYS be rounding. Secondly, if you take the description of the ring literally.. well, a wizard 'preparing' his spells is by spell-points rules deciding what his list of 'known spells' is going to be for the day. Finally: Ring of Wizardry III means Dispel Magic or fireball 24 times per day (rounding up) or 36 times per day (rounding down).
stone_dog 02-20-04, 11:49 PM	These are all good options and it can only boil down to opinions. I am still leaning towards Spellhunter's. It seems like a good balanced fit for the rules and the cost of the item the way it stands.
stilleon 02-21-04, 12:02 AM	For halves don't round it off. Just spend a half point here and then later you have it again. BTW: The only effect cannot be to gain more prepared spells because the ring is usuable for sorcerers as well. What good is it for sorcerers if it doesn't somehow deal with spell points (unless you jst get some free castings of that level, which is a simple solution, but how many?).
stone_dog 02-21-04, 12:04 AM	The idea is that you would get a number of free spells of a certain level equal to the number of known spells for sorcerers and bards or prepared spells in the case of wizards.
Welt 02-21-04, 12:07 AM	In the Epic Level Handbook, they introduced epic versions of the Ring of Wizardry (for 5th-9th lvl spells) and, to maintain magic/psionic parity, they also added Rings of Epic Psionics, which simply gave the psion a large amount of additional power points. Until this point however, there was no Ring of Wizardy equivalent for psionics, which now left us psi fans in the odd position of having Rings of Epic Psionics, but no Ring of Psionics. As this thread suggests, coming up with an item that mimics the Ring of Wizardy in a power/spell point system is problematic. Luckily, however, the Ring of Epic Psionics did follow a pattern when determing how many power points it granted, which let us figure precisely how many points a lower level would grant. Basically, the ring granted a number of power points equal to the base power points of a psion who, at the earliest level, could manifest a power whose level matched that of the ring. In other words, a Ring of Epic Psionics V grants 43 power points, the base power points of a 10th lvl psion, the minimum psion lvl necessary to manifest a 5th lvl power. So, applying this to a Ring of Wizardy with spell points would grant: Ring Bard Wiz Sorc I 1* 2 3 II 5 7 14 III 14 15 29 IV 29 33 51 However, it could also be argued that the ring simply granted a number of points equal to the base power points of a psion whose lvl is twice that of the ring's. For a psion, either method would produce the same result, so there was never much reason to argue over it. With the Ring of Wizardy, however, this method produces different results than the first, as all three arcane casters gain access to new spell lvls at a different rate. Under this method, it would look like this: Ring Bard Wiz Sorc I 1* 2 3 II 5 11 14 III 9 24 29 IV 17 44 51 (* Actually, in both cases, Ring I would give the bard 0 points, but that doesn't exactly seem too fair.)
Dunelord 02-21-04, 04:27 AM	Why not just have it give them the number of extra spells equal to what it would have if it where a out of the PHB caster of that level instead of spell point caster. For example a Ring of Wiz. 4 doubles your forth level spells, before being a spealist wizard or high ablity score. Why not let the ring give a seventh level caster one extra forth level spell, exact same thing it does now? Not that a seventh level character would have one but you see what I am getting at. These extra spells wouldn't eat up spell points for the day.
stone_dog 02-21-04, 07:23 AM	Actually Dunelord, that is the exact thing some of us are saying. Right now (well not at the moment) I am thinking about items that enhance the use of spell points like the old Rods of Metamagic from way back in the days of 3.0. Some people still want rings to give spell points directly. We just have differing views on how the item SHOULD interact with the spell point rules.
Spellhunter 02-21-04, 11:56 AM	Thanks Stonedog..i am glad you liked my idea :D Just to mention something that was only briefly said There is a problem giving the wizard/sorcerer a ring that grants spell points .....spell points are not restricted by level So one accuires a ring of wiz lv 4 and gets (using a number just as an example) 30 spell points, there is nothing keeping the caster from using thoes spell points on their 9th level (and other high level) spells. Now that is not to say that is a bad magical item idea, its just that its NOT the ring of wizardry... So by putting forth the idea of free castings i was trying to keep the item as close to its original version. What i dont like is that even with the suggestion for sor/brds i still think they get the short end of the stick.... And that is why i think its a good idea to maybe come up with a sorcerer/brd ring that will benefit them in their own way....like a ring that allows the sorcerer /bard to know another spell of a certain level......and that would be castable with spell points..... but i digress.... so in answer to the debate over spell point addition for ring of wiz....my two cents are a no But please...anyone, post a "crystal capacitor' idea for thoes of the arcane persuasion...it sounds like a sweet idea
Alaina 02-23-04, 12:29 AM	on page 156, top right column under "MISCELLANEOUS ISSUES" it says: "Items that unction similarly can work, but differently- they restore a number of spell points required to cast a spell of that level. A pearl of power for 3rd-level spells, for instance, would restore 5 spell points to a character's pool of available points when activated." so wouldn't the ring essentially do the same? Its powerful with spell slots, its powerful with spell points. Its a powerful hunk o' jewelry no matter how ya slice it.
The Simple Seeker II 02-25-04, 01:07 AM	((Okay...it seems that a small oversight has not been touched, the rings of wizardy...are greatly effected by the spell points use. In one sense, they are made inept, by the flexibility given by the spell point scenario. But have no fear, a solution is here. And this idea can be tested by the current readers of this thread...instead of the doubling slots are per the old way...turn them into a percentage base increasement...like a ring of 1st lvl will increase the overall spell point pool by 10%...e.g. 1st lvl wizard has a 12 point pool, augmented by 10%...you do the math. Now, with the other rings that do the levels double slots like 1st to 2nd...or 1st to 3rd...take the last highest number from either ring and make the base percentage added to the overall current spell points...and if you are wearing two, only of them will give you the better bonus. (e.g. the 1 to 3 level ring, will give you a 30% increase, cancelling out the the other ring of 1 to 2 level) Now, this makes the wizard rings a much more uncommon item in the marketplace...because now, of the reshape ability it does with the spell point variant. Now, keep in mind, that no matter what, only one ring of set level can benefit the caster. And I believe the highest ring known is a 5th level wizardy....(don't have DMG at work)...well now....using the spell point variant...is becoming very, very attractive....making for a good adventure in trying to attain one of these priceless items.)) (DMs around the world cackling with glee) 'This idea was suggested by a vetern player, who has no web access, while I was at work, talking with him on phone, and reading this forum))