Rogue ... & Weapon Group Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rogue ... & Weapon Group Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
02-25-04, 08:19 PM I have a Rogue who wishes to be proficient in the Spiked Chain.

Using the UA rules for Weapon Group Feats (pg. 94-97), I can chose at 1st level --- Basic Weapons + 2 groups.

Can I chose WpnGrp: Flails & Chains ... and WpnGrp: Exotic Weapons?

Or does the prerequisite of BAB +1 prevent my Rogue from taking the Exotic Weapons group (again, starting at Rogue level 1).

The part that confuses me is that I think I can select both these groups, but I actually can't start using my Spiked Chain (WpnGrp: Exotic Weapons) until Rogue level 2. :confused:

(I hope I explained this properly)

Thanks for your help!
stone_dog
02-25-04, 08:28 PM Nah. Weapon groups don't have requisites. You want spiked chains? You go right ahead and have spiked chains.

Weapon groups are very slick. Sure, you wouldn't get the same versitility of a normal rogue, but you've got your spikey chains at first level and that has got to be worth something.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
02-25-04, 08:37 PM Actually, weapon groups *do* have pre-requisites. See pg. 96 under Weapon Group: Exotic Weapons.

My original question still holds true .... how does that +1 BAB figure into the Rogue actually being able to wield the Spiked Chain **WITH** proficiency? At 2nd level, when he has +1 BAB?

Or is he not allowed to take the Exotic Weapon Weapon Group as a 1st level optional acquisition ... because he has +0 BAB?

:confused: :confused:
stone_dog
02-25-04, 08:50 PM Okay, minor mistake there.

In which case you can't even take it since the feat requires a +1 to aquire. Really though, that is pretty damn ridiculous to begin with. How unbalancing is it to give someone a weapon they really want with a +0 BAB to wield it with?

Personally, I'd ditch the requisite so long as I was rearranging the rules anyway.
DragonWatcher
02-25-04, 08:52 PM Sorry Dirty Dan,

With the prereq of requiring a BAB of +1, you cannot even take the feat, let alone use it, until you meet that prereq. So, until your rogue has a BAB of +1 (which I believe is second level), you cannot take the Weapon Group (Exotic Weapons) feat.

So, you will need to either wait till level 3 to get the feat, or multiclass into a fighter rogue to get it at second level. Worst case scenario, I would recommend taking something else as your weapon for now (shortsword, dagger, etc.) and still carry the spiked chain, using it occasionally (at the -4 for non-proficiency). This will build it into the character, and give you a logical (in character) reason for becomming proficient with it.

Sorry for the bad news, but I hope this helps.
strenoth
02-25-04, 09:16 PM just remember, if yoru first two groups are flais & chains, and ligth blades, then when you grab Exotic,you will be proficient with exotic flails/chains and exotic light blades
strenoth
02-25-04, 09:17 PM and the Prerequisite has ALWAYS been there for exotic weapons. rogues could never grab spiked chain before second level, well, 3rd really.
Greyman
02-26-04, 01:48 AM Originally posted by stone_dog
In which case you can't even take it since the feat requires a +1 to aquire. Really though, that is pretty damn ridiculous to begin with. How unbalancing is it to give someone a weapon they really want with a +0 BAB to wield it with?

Personally, I'd ditch the requisite so long as I was rearranging the rules anyway. The +1 BAB prerequisite has always existed to give Fighters and other martial classes the slight advantage of being able to develop exotic weapon proficiency earlier than. The neatness of weapon grouping rules is that fighters now do not have to even use their bonus feats to do so. Although a rogue will have to wait until third level, or multiclass at second, before gaining proficiency, she will gain proficiency with more than just a single exotic weapon at a time.

Since the optional rules provide such nice advantages across the board, dropping the prerequisite would be excessive.
stone_dog
02-26-04, 01:57 AM Originally posted by Greyman
Since the optional rules provide such nice advantages across the board, dropping the prerequisite would be excessive.

Maybe for most cases, but if a player came up to me with a great concept and vivid imagry for something that required just a little bending of the rules like this I certainly would. Now I wouldn't do anything like provide weapon specialization or anything, but this is really insignificant in my book.

But then my games tend to be a bit on the fatal side, so I am more willing to cut people some slack with the little stuff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 02-25-04, 08:19 PM	I have a Rogue who wishes to be proficient in the Spiked Chain. Using the UA rules for Weapon Group Feats (pg. 94-97), I can chose at 1st level --- Basic Weapons + 2 groups. Can I chose WpnGrp: Flails & Chains ... and WpnGrp: Exotic Weapons? Or does the prerequisite of BAB +1 prevent my Rogue from taking the Exotic Weapons group (again, starting at Rogue level 1). The part that confuses me is that I think I can select both these groups, but I actually can't start using my Spiked Chain (WpnGrp: Exotic Weapons) until Rogue level 2. :confused: (I hope I explained this properly) Thanks for your help!
stone_dog 02-25-04, 08:28 PM	Nah. Weapon groups don't have requisites. You want spiked chains? You go right ahead and have spiked chains. Weapon groups are very slick. Sure, you wouldn't get the same versitility of a normal rogue, but you've got your spikey chains at first level and that has got to be worth something.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 02-25-04, 08:37 PM	Actually, weapon groups do have pre-requisites. See pg. 96 under Weapon Group: Exotic Weapons. My original question still holds true .... how does that +1 BAB figure into the Rogue actually being able to wield the Spiked Chain WITH proficiency? At 2nd level, when he has +1 BAB? Or is he not allowed to take the Exotic Weapon Weapon Group as a 1st level optional acquisition ... because he has +0 BAB? :confused: :confused:
stone_dog 02-25-04, 08:50 PM	Okay, minor mistake there. In which case you can't even take it since the feat requires a +1 to aquire. Really though, that is pretty damn ridiculous to begin with. How unbalancing is it to give someone a weapon they really want with a +0 BAB to wield it with? Personally, I'd ditch the requisite so long as I was rearranging the rules anyway.
DragonWatcher 02-25-04, 08:52 PM	Sorry Dirty Dan, With the prereq of requiring a BAB of +1, you cannot even take the feat, let alone use it, until you meet that prereq. So, until your rogue has a BAB of +1 (which I believe is second level), you cannot take the Weapon Group (Exotic Weapons) feat. So, you will need to either wait till level 3 to get the feat, or multiclass into a fighter rogue to get it at second level. Worst case scenario, I would recommend taking something else as your weapon for now (shortsword, dagger, etc.) and still carry the spiked chain, using it occasionally (at the -4 for non-proficiency). This will build it into the character, and give you a logical (in character) reason for becomming proficient with it. Sorry for the bad news, but I hope this helps.
strenoth 02-25-04, 09:16 PM	just remember, if yoru first two groups are flais & chains, and ligth blades, then when you grab Exotic,you will be proficient with exotic flails/chains and exotic light blades
strenoth 02-25-04, 09:17 PM	and the Prerequisite has ALWAYS been there for exotic weapons. rogues could never grab spiked chain before second level, well, 3rd really.
Greyman 02-26-04, 01:48 AM	Originally posted by stone_dog In which case you can't even take it since the feat requires a +1 to aquire. Really though, that is pretty damn ridiculous to begin with. How unbalancing is it to give someone a weapon they really want with a +0 BAB to wield it with? Personally, I'd ditch the requisite so long as I was rearranging the rules anyway. The +1 BAB prerequisite has always existed to give Fighters and other martial classes the slight advantage of being able to develop exotic weapon proficiency earlier than. The neatness of weapon grouping rules is that fighters now do not have to even use their bonus feats to do so. Although a rogue will have to wait until third level, or multiclass at second, before gaining proficiency, she will gain proficiency with more than just a single exotic weapon at a time. Since the optional rules provide such nice advantages across the board, dropping the prerequisite would be excessive.
stone_dog 02-26-04, 01:57 AM	Originally posted by Greyman Since the optional rules provide such nice advantages across the board, dropping the prerequisite would be excessive. Maybe for most cases, but if a player came up to me with a great concept and vivid imagry for something that required just a little bending of the rules like this I certainly would. Now I wouldn't do anything like provide weapon specialization or anything, but this is really insignificant in my book. But then my games tend to be a bit on the fatal side, so I am more willing to cut people some slack with the little stuff.