Rogue-ish Bard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rogue-ish Bard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HalfMunchkin
04-09-06, 02:18 AM I want to switch the Bard's bardic Music ability with the Rogue's Evasion. Imp. Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Imp. Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack (only as Half Rogue level) and Trapfinding abilities. Is this unbalanced? If so, how much would be balanced? I am not trying to be a munchkin (ironicly) but want a character that is a balanced mix of Bard and Rogue. I know I could multiclass, but having as a single class would make things easier. Please no insults, but do tell me if I am trying for too unbalanced a class.
JulesCARV
04-09-06, 11:04 AM I think that the music is really the sine qua non of the bard, but if you want a rogue with some spellcasting, have you looked into playing a Spellthief (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a)? Whether your idea is balanced, I can't really say. Maybe someone else would be a better judge, but there is an (allegedly professionally) balanced rogue/spellcaster type class already.
kelvinaw273
04-09-06, 11:42 AM I concur, you have pretty much described a spellthief. Complete Adventurer, clock up another sale, Ker-Ching! (Think WotC will give us a commission?)
Sentient
04-09-06, 02:35 PM If only Spellthief wasn't lamer then the lamest lame thing I've ever heard of. My faavorite thing about bard is a full 20 caster levels, which nobody else gets!

My suggestion is to multiclass rogue and wizard.
HalfMunchkin
04-09-06, 11:34 PM I won't play a Spell Thief or a Wizard because:
1. The Spellthief's spellcasting is way too limiting.
2. I hate the prepared spellcasting of the Wizard.

If I was going to multiclass, it would be Rogue and Bard. All I want to know is if my idea is balanced. If it isn't what can I do to make it balanced. As for the music being an important part of the Bard, I would rather do it as a mime and have mandatory somatic components instead of vocal.
Sentient
04-12-06, 09:56 PM It sounds alright, maybe it would sound better with no sneak attack at all. What is it with 3rd edition and every class having to be able to contribute to combat?

But in the end it's really up to your DM.
bartleby42
04-13-06, 12:51 AM I've thought about doing a simmiliar thing myself.

Removing Bardic music and makeing the class "hero" ala dragon warrior III.

Now the problem is what should take the place of bardic music? If you grant Evasion and trap sense and sneak attackt there is no reason to play a rogue. If you grant a better BAB, well that might work but it lacks flair.

The solution I came to was that at 1st, 5th, 9th ect... you get a special ablitiy. The problem is I don't know what they should be. A BAB and a feat? 1d6 SA? Access to the Pali or Ranger Spell lists? Maybe at some point I'll work it out.

Remember your "quiet Bard" can't outshine a Rogue at his own game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HalfMunchkin 04-09-06, 02:18 AM	I want to switch the Bard's bardic Music ability with the Rogue's Evasion. Imp. Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Imp. Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack (only as Half Rogue level) and Trapfinding abilities. Is this unbalanced? If so, how much would be balanced? I am not trying to be a munchkin (ironicly) but want a character that is a balanced mix of Bard and Rogue. I know I could multiclass, but having as a single class would make things easier. Please no insults, but do tell me if I am trying for too unbalanced a class.
JulesCARV 04-09-06, 11:04 AM	I think that the music is really the sine qua non of the bard, but if you want a rogue with some spellcasting, have you looked into playing a Spellthief (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a)? Whether your idea is balanced, I can't really say. Maybe someone else would be a better judge, but there is an (allegedly professionally) balanced rogue/spellcaster type class already.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 11:42 AM	I concur, you have pretty much described a spellthief. Complete Adventurer, clock up another sale, Ker-Ching! (Think WotC will give us a commission?)
Sentient 04-09-06, 02:35 PM	If only Spellthief wasn't lamer then the lamest lame thing I've ever heard of. My faavorite thing about bard is a full 20 caster levels, which nobody else gets! My suggestion is to multiclass rogue and wizard.
HalfMunchkin 04-09-06, 11:34 PM	I won't play a Spell Thief or a Wizard because: 1. The Spellthief's spellcasting is way too limiting. 2. I hate the prepared spellcasting of the Wizard. If I was going to multiclass, it would be Rogue and Bard. All I want to know is if my idea is balanced. If it isn't what can I do to make it balanced. As for the music being an important part of the Bard, I would rather do it as a mime and have mandatory somatic components instead of vocal.
Sentient 04-12-06, 09:56 PM	It sounds alright, maybe it would sound better with no sneak attack at all. What is it with 3rd edition and every class having to be able to contribute to combat? But in the end it's really up to your DM.
bartleby42 04-13-06, 12:51 AM	I've thought about doing a simmiliar thing myself. Removing Bardic music and makeing the class "hero" ala dragon warrior III. Now the problem is what should take the place of bardic music? If you grant Evasion and trap sense and sneak attackt there is no reason to play a rogue. If you grant a better BAB, well that might work but it lacks flair. The solution I came to was that at 1st, 5th, 9th ect... you get a special ablitiy. The problem is I don't know what they should be. A BAB and a feat? 1d6 SA? Access to the Pali or Ranger Spell lists? Maybe at some point I'll work it out. Remember your "quiet Bard" can't outshine a Rogue at his own game.