Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alkaline 05-28-04, 09:35 AM	So, normally, I am the DM and I encourage roleplaying and detailed character concepts. I give XP for roleplaying and my games are not power-gaming games at all. I'm terrible at powergaming. Here's the thing, I've been invited to play in this campaign with some friends. The DM is allowing Gestault characters and also free bloodlines (and possibly ECL races?). I want to make the most powerful character possible. But, like I said, I'm terrible at it. I know I want to be a magic user of some type. The Gestault classes need to be core classes. I'm leaning towards a cleric (because there is no cleric yet, and no one in this group ever plays one). Can you help me? I don't need an entire character outline tree (10 fighter/3 archmage/4 jumbo killer/7 ninja master) ... If you could just gimme a "monk/rogue is the most powerful because you get great attacks, saves, and skills" or a general outline of two core classes that join to create an ultimate combo. If you can fit the cleric class in there, please do. Thanks. Alkaline
Tenzhi 05-28-04, 10:03 AM	One of the fighter-type classes mixed with monk would be pretty good... it would overcome one of the Monk's bigger weaknesses - his mediocre BAB. For Cleric combinations, Barbarian/Cleric is pretty good.
Pystian 05-28-04, 02:39 PM	Depending on what the other characters are, a Cleric/Rogue might work nicely. All good saves (and evasion), complete spellcasting progression, the most skills possible, and sneak attack (can work quite nicely with a number of spells). You'll lack the highest BAB, but that shouldn't matter too much if the rest of your party is hack and slashing. You'll be primarily a caster anyhow. I've never played a Cleric/Rogue or a gestalt character for that matter. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Riznar 05-28-04, 03:02 PM	If you want to cast all night and day, sorcerer/cleric is fun, especially since you have that d8 for HD. The wiz/clr in my current gestalt campaign never runs out of spells, though sometimes she doesn't prepare well and runs out of useful spells. :D
jkovacik 05-28-04, 03:39 PM	If you're thinking cleric already, Monk/Cleric is a great way to go. Wisdom raises spell DC *and* your AC. Get Tumble, and with increased move you can heal anyone on the battlefield. Great saves, good melee attacks (especially w/ cleric buffs later on). Self heal means you can save heal spells for others; immune to disease/poison means you can always spend your first triage round helping out a friend instead of yourself. And no need to worry about armor/ weapons/ shields, so cash can be used for more powerful items (ioun stones to raise caster level/ +1 to all d20 rolls, for example). When you start getting the better combat buffing spells, look out.
Korhal IV 05-28-04, 03:57 PM	Don't stick with just two. Go Ftr/Clr initially to get the first two feats and the HP. Then go Mnk/Clr all the way.
Phyrrus 05-28-04, 04:29 PM	I know its not spellcasting, but I find that fighter/monk is excellent, because as mentioned, you'll get great saves and full BAB, but all those feats can be used to thoughoughly define your monks fighting style, which can otherwise be quite difficult. But as for the spellcasting, I completely agree with jkovacik about the monk/cleric, the cleric buffs (both offensive and defensive) will allow you to kick a serious amount of ass.
Master Ruphus 05-28-04, 06:48 PM	My favorites so far with the Gestalt are Cleric/monk, as stated before, wisdom is king for both classes, more AC, more spells per day, higher DC's, better spot/listen etc etc. Monk gives you insane unarmed damage and the ability to go w/o armor (which rocks!) 2 very nice complimenting classes. If you want just raw fire power.... Wizard(Evoker)/Sorcerer. Drop Necro and Illusion from wizard and use your Sorcerer spells strictly for situational and utility spells (knocks, fly, grease, shield, dispel magic, you get the idea, basically anything you "could" have to cast at any given minute, but might not cast but once every couple sessions) and fill wizard up with nukes, keep your INT as your primary stat, fill up on metamagic feats. The one I have currently, has 43 spells per day at 6th level with only 20ish INT and 18ish charisma. But the one I have had the most fun with, is the Barbarian/Warrior combo. Just wow, super hps, all the feats you could ever want, rage, damage reduction, the list goes on. Sure you stil have 2 bad saves, but magic items, spells and feats can help fix that, and you will be one heckuva chopper. With a +1 Scythe at 6th level I hit for 24-30 pts of damage a hit with PA. First and only crit so far was at level 4 against another PC, 100ish pts of damage.... so far he's my fav. ;) Just my opinions though, you'll find there are a TON of FUN combo's outta just core classes w/o even touching PrC's. Sage Ruphus Spellweaver
Illithidbix 05-28-04, 09:28 PM	Always rather liked the idea of a Wizard/Monk myself, although it may be a bit demanding due to being dependent on so many abilities. The monk class really covers up the vunerabilities of a normal wizard (low Hp, poor physical saves and vunerability to melee), allows a bonus to AC without being dependent on amour and many of the spells that a wizard can cast become sooo much nastier if that Wizard is a monk as well (fireshielded monk? Touch attacks? Ouch...). I would suggest concentrating on the Wizard aspect of the character, and using the Monk side as a passive bonus. More importantly I think the concept is rather more plauasable and playable concept than that of many Gesalt characters.
bitnine 05-28-04, 10:41 PM	See if you can get something with outsider HD progression and mix that in with Wizard or something of the like. Outsider HD grant d8s, 8 sp/level, full BAB, and all good saves. Toss in a solid spellcaster, and that's not all that shabby.
Crunchy Frog 05-29-04, 12:34 AM	If you're considering cleric/monk, you could also consider the druid/monk. This will allow you to apply your monk bonus to armor class when shapeshifted.
Master Ruphus 05-29-04, 10:59 AM	Druid/Monk also gives you a chance at being Huge size and some meaaaaan grappling opportunities. Get to epic and some choice wild shape feats and you can wild shape into gargantuan or bigger! MASSIVE increases to those grapple checks :) Ruphus
Nifft 05-29-04, 02:27 PM	LN Monk/Druid is awesome even before Wild Shape, since the Monk's unarmed attacks are treated as natural weapons (or manufactured weapons, but that's not important here). Barkskin + Greater Magic Fang + the standard AniBuffs -- a powerful combo. Druid / Rogue is great, too -- "How the heck did that sparrow do 10d6 sneak attack damage?!?" -- take Fly-By Attack and stock up on UMD, and use wands of Mage Armor and Shield. Fly in, do your one attack on someone who your friend is flanking, and get out. Monk / Rogue is another fun choice. On your first blow, try a Stunning Attack. The rest of your Flurry will deal full sneak attack damage on every hit -- if you stun the sucker. Ranger / Battle Sorcerer is cool, too. All good saves, lots of spells, Light armor. Mild Variation: 11 levels of Ranger / Battle Sorc., then 9 levels of Arcane Archer / Battle Sorc. Another personal favorite is the Bard / Barbarian. This one actually has some RP potential -- he's Mr. "I SING REALLY LOUD!!!" -- N
Lina_Inverse 05-31-04, 05:54 AM	to be a munchkin in gestalt there is only one true charecter. a LN druid/monk who never leaves wildshape.there just isnt any other charecter compareable in wrongness.
MaverickWolf 05-31-04, 05:01 PM	Cleric/Monk is probably the best combination if you want a cleric around, though a cleric/sorcerer ain't such a bad idea either. A cleric/fighter could be pretty good too (Dodge and Mobility are nice when you're running to go help out a friend, and Improved Initiative is handy too so you can heal them before their attacked again. Other core feats aren't bad for clerics either, and if you add in non-core feats...Well, it's nothing to complain about).
Dunelord 05-31-04, 08:54 PM	Hey Barbarian with a cleric wizard or sorcer.. Throw in a few levels of Spellsword to cast in armor. You get 2 good saves, can take a weasal familur to have a better reflex save if you go arcane, d12s, and by 20th level 9th level spells. Cleric can cast in armor. You can't use rage and cast at once but you can drop out of rage to cast. If that is such a big deal you can go to Fighter/caster. I have tried this and it kicked butt.
TheDarkLord 06-01-04, 04:34 AM	If Alignment doesnt matter go... NE Rogue/Wizard, max out INT (You could also do this with a Psion 3.5 but ask if you can get Invisibility/Greater Invisibility in your spell lists). If alignment does matter.... Druid/Cloister Cleric.... Just nasty. ::EDIT:: Race for the aforementioned Rogue/Wizard, Gray Elf, Longsword Proficiency, Bow Proficiency, Raper or Scimitar Proficiency rocks.
Tom Fahl 06-01-04, 08:15 PM	has anyone here tried a Druid/Cleric ?
Mattimeo78368 06-03-04, 07:46 PM	well when I first looked at gestalt I thought that it didn't require much strategy at all... but when I looked at it closer, I noticed that one of the best things about gestalt, is the ability to entertwine characters, not just make two characters and put em together. For instance, you could do the following: Spellsword / Paladin Spellsword / Sorcerer Spellsword / Paladin Spellsword / Sorcerer Spellsword / Paladin and get full casting as well as the spellsword goodies, (this was taken from the middle of a build im going to use as a back-up) as well as full base attack bonus. I also made a character that was a ghaele progression from savage species, and a monk with shiba protector, initiate of draconic mysteries, and a couple of paladin levels, im not sure if you can use savage species with gestalt... but woah was it powerful. also i'd like to refer you to a thread on the character optimization board, just do a search for "gestalt" and read the gestalt madness thread, THE most powerful gestalt builds are there, good luck!
jkovacik 06-04-04, 11:59 AM	Be careful with the above build - clear it with your DM first if you can 'multiclass' out of paladin and back - many won't let you skip taking a level of paladin at each level. However, if you've got access to the Complete Divine, you might try a Paladin/Favored Soul combo - FS is the clerical version of sorcerer.
JoshRodriguez 06-08-04, 09:42 AM	3.5 psion/monk is AWESOME. You won't be able to heal anyone, but a clever player can do nasty things with careful use of the telekinetic and damage-dealing powers they have available. Similar things can be accomplished with a sorceror/monk or wizard/monk, but they aren't quite as fun. The look on your DM's face when you psychically peel the three heavily-armored guards off the Big Bad Wizard, hurl their screaming bodies into an abyss, then proced to charge a hundred feet and pound said wizard into putty with your bare, psychically-enhanced hands won't fade quickly. Very satisfying. Druid/Monk is equally devious and probably easier to get away with.
BelRex 06-08-04, 10:36 AM	Definately think about a monk/psion. Either Telepath, and use schism to do a full attack and then use a psionic power, or an egoist and use fission, two of you are more fun than just one :P
K.O.E.G 06-08-04, 03:31 PM	I was a fan of laying the smackdown with a Dru/Clr combo, be sure to use CD
Templar_Prime 06-09-04, 08:17 PM	My most sucessful multiclass and gestalt combo is the paladin/psion. Not because of power, or frequency, but it's almost as if I have to play something like that combo if I want the game to survive more than a couple of sessions. (wierd, but true) I've also found that concept-wise a ranger/monk is pretty cool. If you're looking for spellcasting power, wizard or sorcerer combines well with rogue, ranger, or monk, provided you have the stats for them to be effective.
Commander of Chaos 06-10-04, 08:58 PM	There are many things you can do with gestalt. If you can sweet talk the Dm into allowing prestige classes, heres a great idea, ( i have 1 level of wiz and 17 caster levels at lvl 17) First, Wix/Elf paragon, be a grey elf, the int and dex bonuses will be necessary later on. Then take swashbuckler/ paragon for two levels. Next, a level of swash/ spellsword. then take levels of spellsword/ bladesinger until you run out of spellsword. then takle eldrish knight/ bladesinger. finally, use eldrish knight/ archmage to finich it out. you end up with insanely high saves, damage, attack, and AC. to top it all off you also get a full spell progression except for one level which is made back later. If this isn't allowed then use the Druid/Monk. With wild shape and the insane damage boosts of the monk you are unstopable.
roll8dn 06-10-04, 09:37 PM	I don't know if your DM will allow this, but do a wizard/cleric build, emphasizing spellcasting over any other abilities (max out WIS and INT), and take as many levels of knowledge(arcana), spellcraft, and knowledge(religion) levels as possible. For feats, take skill focus (spellcraft) and spell focus in two schools of arcane magic, and any metamagic feat. This builds you up to take Heirophant/Arcmage as your PrC once you hit level 15 or so. I honestly believe (with DND being such a high-magic world these days), that you will just knock the snot out of pretty much everything. Plus, it sets you up for some serious roleplaying, trying to balance the demands of your god(dess) with the demands of your intellect. Anyway, this is just my opinion...
Archmonarch 06-14-04, 12:52 AM	Whats a good build for a monk/psion? Ive been trying to come up with one and having trouble narrowing it down.
fish_heads 06-14-04, 02:07 AM	It depends on whether you're going to use prestige classes or not. I'd recommend Thrallherd. Request a thrall that's either a ranged attacker (for supporting fire) or a meatshield (for helping you stay back far enough to manifest your nasty-cool powers like crisis of breath and fuse flesh. On the ranged attack thrall, I'd go ranger(or if gestalt, cleric ranger so he can also heal you up without using up your actions) On the meatshield, go barbarian, fighter, or gestalt of the two. [edit] of course, once you reach your tenth level of thrallherd, you can just take whicherver one you didn't choose initially
Ertai Planeswalker 06-17-04, 07:47 PM	Paladin/Shugenja Both benefit from high cha and you can still combat effectiveley.
flamefist drunkenmonk 06-17-04, 10:08 PM	nvm.... cant use mystic theurge
enderfan4 06-17-04, 10:17 PM	nvm...im a moron
Nifft 06-18-04, 01:28 AM	Originally posted by Archmonarch Whats a good build for a monk/psion? Ive been trying to come up with one and having trouble narrowing it down. Monk//Nomad would be a great combo -- ultimate mobility. However, IMHO Monk//PsiWar is a great combo, even if your PP total is much lower -- you'll have a better selection of combat powers, and the extra feats will help you lay down the hurt -- er, I mean, focus your character concept. -- N PS: Gestalt explicitly prohibits Mystic Theurge and the like.
Vecna 06-18-04, 06:05 AM	You cannot use Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster (plus Cerebromancer and Mind Mage) in gestalt builds.
Mr. VanderMeer 06-18-04, 09:40 AM	Also, ask for help on the character optimization board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=339) . That's where the experts are when it comes to min/maxing.