Sanity rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sanity rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Talon Blackhart
04-12-05, 10:52 AM I was considering using the UA Sanity rules in my next campaign (it seems very fitting for Eberron), and was wondering what experiences other people have had in using these rules. I was also wondering if people are using the sanity rules directly or altering them. If so, what alterations are being made?

(Please keep in mind that I am looking for constructive criticism and suggestions. I am not looking for people to just reply with "That's stupid" or similar comments.)
Lina_Inverse
04-12-05, 12:26 PM how is it fitting at all for ebberon?!?!?magic is fricken everywhere.theres a kingdom that uses undead for soldiers.

it also leads to players not giveing a damn about there charecters.if a charecter is going to die 3-4 sessions into the game anyways....
Wrathamon
04-12-05, 06:24 PM Eberron is very fitting... you just need to establish what causes sanity loss and what doesnt. Creatures from Xoriat, the Dreaming Dark, the lords of dust, Rajahs, the Mournlands... are all good choices. Other monsters and undead wouldnt because they are fairly common to uncommon.

Part of the problem with Sanity... its a slow death that is pretty much inevitable... I am not a big fan of the Sanity rules in the UA, but I do like the idea behind it... I am just not sure how to modify it at the moment.

But, I have a suggestion to check out Andy Collins Website (http://www.andycollins.net/Campaigns/Umber/Umber.htm), he is running a campaign that uses Sanity and Taint...

check out the forums there
Lina_Inverse
04-12-05, 08:30 PM of course.that covers all the intended high level foes.thus makeng the game auto retire after level 15 or so.by the time you are fighting those,a party should be well steeled to face it.
Aurotuli
04-12-05, 08:55 PM I use the system originally stated in the Ravenloft setting, although I've seen variants of it in a variety of 3rd party publishers since then. Basically it is a will save that results in various types of penalties. Typically you make a will save vs horror. If you fail you might panic, become stunned, gain a minor and temporary form of insanity, etc. If you fail by 10 or more you have to make a sanity check at the same DC - failure of which results in a form of insanity that is longer lasting and sometimes crippling (depending on what is rolled).

The nice thing about rolled saves rather than sanity points is that it is easier to deal with as it uses a d20 mechanic rather than an pre-d20 mechanic. If undead are more common, just decrease the DC by 5 or 10. If fiends are virtually unknown, increase the DC by 5 or 10. If the party has met the horror a few times before and know - to their horror (pun intended) what they are dealing with, decrease any horror checks against such by 5 or 10. If they have witnessed several atrocities, then perhaps they should have a +2 or +4 bonus the next time they make a save against such.

Insanities are similarly d20 based. Saves are made at intervals (much like for poisons, diseases, etc). Upon succeeding their save they lose the insanity. Aid from others can grant a +2 bonus to their save, etc. All in all, I like this much more than the odder system in UA. On the other hand, I'll admit that UA was the first time I saw the sanity point system, although I understand they borrowed it from the Call of Cthulu system they once supported (for a book or two only, IIRC).

Its been a year or so since I last encountered sanity issues in a game setting, however, and we were using a mix of the ravenloft system and a third party variant that had some aspects the GM liked. Since then I've developed my own system, but I'll have to look it up as its been a few months since I last saw it. If I recall correctly is was more of a system for how to handle when the checks were made and when a form of insanity was gained rather than a detailed description, though.
Platinumwarlock
04-12-05, 09:04 PM I've played both Call of Cthulhu d20 and Ravenloft 3.5 using the UA Sanity rules and have found them most useful. The mechanic is "alien" enough to make it different and quirky, while still being very streamlined and easy to use.

I would, however, make stipulations.

First, give your players an effective "sanity buffer" equal to their Wisdom modifier. This helps boost the usefulness of a relatively weak stat and can stave off madness from being too overpowering of a mechanic.

Also, I would not incur sanity damage for multiple encounters of the same type. If the players fight beholders, they should only take damage the first two to three times that they encounter them. Beyond that, their minds will have "acclimatized" to that particular maddening feature and shouldn't be taking more damage.

Finally, I would elminate the sanity loss for most undead. As said before, they seem to be more commonplace in Eberron and having people be blasted by sanity loss each time they see a zombie seems like overkill. That said, something like a VileWight (which more resembles an aberration, anyway) should still incur the loss.
Talon Blackhart
04-12-05, 11:41 PM I will have to see if I can find a Ravenloft sourcebook to look at the Sanity rules there. The d20 concept is kind of interesting.

of course.that covers all the intended high level foes.thus makeng the game auto retire after level 15 or so.by the time you are fighting those,a party should be well steeled to face it.

The biggest relationship I can see between Sanity and Eberron is the Mournlands. That isn't necessarily a high-level challenge. In fact, by the published adventures, you're in the Mournlands at 2nd or 3rd level, at least briefly. Also, who said that the PCs have to actually fight with any of the above creatures at low levels? Or haven't you ever played in a campaign where there's a recurring BBEG?

I agree that the creatures that cause sanity loss will have to be considered differently. Undead (especially around Karnath) would not cause much of a shock, but an undead platoon of soldiers in Sharn might cause a bit of a stir. I would imagine that seeing a dragon anywhere would cause some anxiety, no matter the color. And for any non-elf, the Deathless would be pretty scary.

Thanks for all of the help so far!
Azamoth_D'Denieth
04-17-05, 03:47 PM Call of Cthulu first introduced sanity loss, so in order to get an initial feel for the decay of the mind, you should read a few H.P. Lovecraft stories or check out the Cthulu RPG itself. Lords of Madness also has a mind decay fell about it as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talon Blackhart 04-12-05, 10:52 AM	I was considering using the UA Sanity rules in my next campaign (it seems very fitting for Eberron), and was wondering what experiences other people have had in using these rules. I was also wondering if people are using the sanity rules directly or altering them. If so, what alterations are being made? (Please keep in mind that I am looking for constructive criticism and suggestions. I am not looking for people to just reply with "That's stupid" or similar comments.)
Lina_Inverse 04-12-05, 12:26 PM	how is it fitting at all for ebberon?!?!?magic is fricken everywhere.theres a kingdom that uses undead for soldiers. it also leads to players not giveing a damn about there charecters.if a charecter is going to die 3-4 sessions into the game anyways....
Wrathamon 04-12-05, 06:24 PM	Eberron is very fitting... you just need to establish what causes sanity loss and what doesnt. Creatures from Xoriat, the Dreaming Dark, the lords of dust, Rajahs, the Mournlands... are all good choices. Other monsters and undead wouldnt because they are fairly common to uncommon. Part of the problem with Sanity... its a slow death that is pretty much inevitable... I am not a big fan of the Sanity rules in the UA, but I do like the idea behind it... I am just not sure how to modify it at the moment. But, I have a suggestion to check out Andy Collins Website (http://www.andycollins.net/Campaigns/Umber/Umber.htm), he is running a campaign that uses Sanity and Taint... check out the forums there
Lina_Inverse 04-12-05, 08:30 PM	of course.that covers all the intended high level foes.thus makeng the game auto retire after level 15 or so.by the time you are fighting those,a party should be well steeled to face it.
Aurotuli 04-12-05, 08:55 PM	I use the system originally stated in the Ravenloft setting, although I've seen variants of it in a variety of 3rd party publishers since then. Basically it is a will save that results in various types of penalties. Typically you make a will save vs horror. If you fail you might panic, become stunned, gain a minor and temporary form of insanity, etc. If you fail by 10 or more you have to make a sanity check at the same DC - failure of which results in a form of insanity that is longer lasting and sometimes crippling (depending on what is rolled). The nice thing about rolled saves rather than sanity points is that it is easier to deal with as it uses a d20 mechanic rather than an pre-d20 mechanic. If undead are more common, just decrease the DC by 5 or 10. If fiends are virtually unknown, increase the DC by 5 or 10. If the party has met the horror a few times before and know - to their horror (pun intended) what they are dealing with, decrease any horror checks against such by 5 or 10. If they have witnessed several atrocities, then perhaps they should have a +2 or +4 bonus the next time they make a save against such. Insanities are similarly d20 based. Saves are made at intervals (much like for poisons, diseases, etc). Upon succeeding their save they lose the insanity. Aid from others can grant a +2 bonus to their save, etc. All in all, I like this much more than the odder system in UA. On the other hand, I'll admit that UA was the first time I saw the sanity point system, although I understand they borrowed it from the Call of Cthulu system they once supported (for a book or two only, IIRC). Its been a year or so since I last encountered sanity issues in a game setting, however, and we were using a mix of the ravenloft system and a third party variant that had some aspects the GM liked. Since then I've developed my own system, but I'll have to look it up as its been a few months since I last saw it. If I recall correctly is was more of a system for how to handle when the checks were made and when a form of insanity was gained rather than a detailed description, though.
Platinumwarlock 04-12-05, 09:04 PM	I've played both Call of Cthulhu d20 and Ravenloft 3.5 using the UA Sanity rules and have found them most useful. The mechanic is "alien" enough to make it different and quirky, while still being very streamlined and easy to use. I would, however, make stipulations. First, give your players an effective "sanity buffer" equal to their Wisdom modifier. This helps boost the usefulness of a relatively weak stat and can stave off madness from being too overpowering of a mechanic. Also, I would not incur sanity damage for multiple encounters of the same type. If the players fight beholders, they should only take damage the first two to three times that they encounter them. Beyond that, their minds will have "acclimatized" to that particular maddening feature and shouldn't be taking more damage. Finally, I would elminate the sanity loss for most undead. As said before, they seem to be more commonplace in Eberron and having people be blasted by sanity loss each time they see a zombie seems like overkill. That said, something like a VileWight (which more resembles an aberration, anyway) should still incur the loss.
Talon Blackhart 04-12-05, 11:41 PM	I will have to see if I can find a Ravenloft sourcebook to look at the Sanity rules there. The d20 concept is kind of interesting. of course.that covers all the intended high level foes.thus makeng the game auto retire after level 15 or so.by the time you are fighting those,a party should be well steeled to face it. The biggest relationship I can see between Sanity and Eberron is the Mournlands. That isn't necessarily a high-level challenge. In fact, by the published adventures, you're in the Mournlands at 2nd or 3rd level, at least briefly. Also, who said that the PCs have to actually fight with any of the above creatures at low levels? Or haven't you ever played in a campaign where there's a recurring BBEG? I agree that the creatures that cause sanity loss will have to be considered differently. Undead (especially around Karnath) would not cause much of a shock, but an undead platoon of soldiers in Sharn might cause a bit of a stir. I would imagine that seeing a dragon anywhere would cause some anxiety, no matter the color. And for any non-elf, the Deathless would be pretty scary. Thanks for all of the help so far!
Azamoth_D'Denieth 04-17-05, 03:47 PM	Call of Cthulu first introduced sanity loss, so in order to get an initial feel for the decay of the mind, you should read a few H.P. Lovecraft stories or check out the Cthulu RPG itself. Lords of Madness also has a mind decay fell about it as well.