save vs. inury [Archive] - Wizards Community

save vs. inury [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trapspringer
02-28-04, 07:42 PM I am at a loss as to how to deal with a problem I have encountered. It is easily possible to aquire a tremendous fortitude save against injury very quickly,and with out sacrifiing other abilities or multiclassing exessively. I must be overlooking something. A level 3 character can attain a bonus in excess of plus 9, rendering most attacks that your standard creature throws out nul and void. what am i missing, and does anyone have any ideas as to creatures which will have a decent attack and damage average that ic an throw into the mix to deal with my problem?
thanx much.
CompleteSatori
02-28-04, 11:30 PM Its pretty simple actually. Injury is not about the Fort save. Its all about natural 1's, and the odds are against any player character. In an Injury game your PCs are going to see hundreds of Fort saves in the lives of their characters, probably thousands really. And you are talking about making 10's of rolls on a d20 in ONE combat. So the law of averages takes over, you roll a natural one, ONE time... And you are disabled and dying.

That simple.

EDIT: Not laughing at that Luck domain anymore are ya? Now the Auspician PrC is pretty amazing aint it?
Thelon Fairblade
03-02-04, 08:29 AM Fighter/Cleric/Barb/Ranger/Paladin/Monk/Druid 3 = Fort +3
CON 18 = +4
(Great Fortitude = +2)
Fort +7 (+9 with feat)

So veteran warrior-type or priest-type is reasonably safe from low-level threats, unless he gets unlucky. Fair enough.
(Greataxe from orc = 15 potential damage, Fort DC 13? Crit = 45 potential damage, Fort DC 19... fair chance to be dropped, just like normal!)

Wiz/Sorc/Rogue/Bard 3 = Fort +1
CON 12 = +1
Fort +2 (+4 with feat)

So magic-user types have a good chance to be injured on every hit, and a moderate chance to be dropped in a single blow. Just like normal.

Fair enough, seems to me.

What *I* dislike is that Energy Resistance and DR are now pathetic. I think energy resistance should be something more like "divide by 3" or "divide by 2" for the improvement. Something with Fire resist 15 can usually scoff at most fire effects... now it just gets a +3 to the save! So something with a bad Fort save that used to be relatively immune to fire is now only slightly resistant! Me no like.

And DR seems undervalued as well. When the party is averaging 11 and 14 damage, but having 10 negated by improper DR (say, magic weapons against a vampire's "silver" DR), it can take a freaking long time to defeat a foe -- in the case ofthe vampire, who is Fast Healing the minor damage bypassing the DR, it can be a no-win situation! In the Injury system, though, the 10 points of DR are simply reducing the +3 Fort saves (i.e. 14 damage = +3) to +1 (i.e. granting a +2 bonus from DR 10)... so, again, a bad Fort save incorrectly reflects the benefit DR should have been applying.

However, on the flip side, look at what Karmic Strike can do now! Got a good Fort save? take hits all day, while dishing out killing blows of your own!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trapspringer 02-28-04, 07:42 PM	I am at a loss as to how to deal with a problem I have encountered. It is easily possible to aquire a tremendous fortitude save against injury very quickly,and with out sacrifiing other abilities or multiclassing exessively. I must be overlooking something. A level 3 character can attain a bonus in excess of plus 9, rendering most attacks that your standard creature throws out nul and void. what am i missing, and does anyone have any ideas as to creatures which will have a decent attack and damage average that ic an throw into the mix to deal with my problem? thanx much.
CompleteSatori 02-28-04, 11:30 PM	Its pretty simple actually. Injury is not about the Fort save. Its all about natural 1's, and the odds are against any player character. In an Injury game your PCs are going to see hundreds of Fort saves in the lives of their characters, probably thousands really. And you are talking about making 10's of rolls on a d20 in ONE combat. So the law of averages takes over, you roll a natural one, ONE time... And you are disabled and dying. That simple. EDIT: Not laughing at that Luck domain anymore are ya? Now the Auspician PrC is pretty amazing aint it?
Thelon Fairblade 03-02-04, 08:29 AM	Fighter/Cleric/Barb/Ranger/Paladin/Monk/Druid 3 = Fort +3 CON 18 = +4 (Great Fortitude = +2) Fort +7 (+9 with feat) So veteran warrior-type or priest-type is reasonably safe from low-level threats, unless he gets unlucky. Fair enough. (Greataxe from orc = 15 potential damage, Fort DC 13? Crit = 45 potential damage, Fort DC 19... fair chance to be dropped, just like normal!) Wiz/Sorc/Rogue/Bard 3 = Fort +1 CON 12 = +1 Fort +2 (+4 with feat) So magic-user types have a good chance to be injured on every hit, and a moderate chance to be dropped in a single blow. Just like normal. Fair enough, seems to me. What I dislike is that Energy Resistance and DR are now pathetic. I think energy resistance should be something more like "divide by 3" or "divide by 2" for the improvement. Something with Fire resist 15 can usually scoff at most fire effects... now it just gets a +3 to the save! So something with a bad Fort save that used to be relatively immune to fire is now only slightly resistant! Me no like. And DR seems undervalued as well. When the party is averaging 11 and 14 damage, but having 10 negated by improper DR (say, magic weapons against a vampire's "silver" DR), it can take a freaking long time to defeat a foe -- in the case ofthe vampire, who is Fast Healing the minor damage bypassing the DR, it can be a no-win situation! In the Injury system, though, the 10 points of DR are simply reducing the +3 Fort saves (i.e. 14 damage = +3) to +1 (i.e. granting a +2 bonus from DR 10)... so, again, a bad Fort save incorrectly reflects the benefit DR should have been applying. However, on the flip side, look at what Karmic Strike can do now! Got a good Fort save? take hits all day, while dishing out killing blows of your own!