Scalable flaws? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Scalable flaws? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Junpei
12-07-05, 05:08 AM Hello folks :)
I've always played with flaws for my PCs, since I think they are a nice way to improve roleplaying and deepen the caracters' personalities.
Recently, though, I forced my players to choose only flaws with numeric effects, 'cause roleplaying ones are a little too difficult for me to manage.

Browsing through this forum, Dragon Magazine and other similar sources, I found some interesting flaws that require their owner to make a saving throw (Will, usually) to do something in particular (for instance, attacking creatures of a certain type, or avoiding to become shaken at the beginning of each combat). I'd really like to introduce them as well in my adventures, since they have a physical effect, but also share a clear problem: the DCs for aforementioned saving throws are all set and fixed, and if a DC 12 Will save could be a nuisance for a 1st level character, it will be less and less intimidating once experience starts to pile up, and spells and magic items to enhance saves make their appearance.

So, anyone know a nice way to "improve" this kind of flaws for higher level characters and make them always effective against their actions? Otherwise, they will become rather pointless very fast... maybe let the DC increase proportionally with the PC's corresponding saving throw... what do you think?
FriendoftheDork
12-07-05, 05:50 AM Hello folks :)
I've always played with flaws for my PCs, since I think they are a nice way to improve roleplaying and deepen the caracters' personalities.
Recently, though, I forced my players to choose only flaws with numeric effects, 'cause roleplaying ones are a little too difficult for me to manage.

Browsing through this forum, Dragon Magazine and other similar sources, I found some interesting flaws that require their owner to make a saving throw (Will, usually) to do something in particular (for instance, attacking creatures of a certain type, or avoiding to become shaken at the beginning of each combat). I'd really like to introduce them as well in my adventures, since they have a physical effect, but also share a clear problem: the DCs for aforementioned saving throws are all set and fixed, and if a DC 12 Will save could be a nuisance for a 1st level character, it will be less and less intimidating once experience starts to pile up, and spells and magic items to enhance saves make their appearance.

So, anyone know a nice way to "improve" this kind of flaws for higher level characters and make them always effective against their actions? Otherwise, they will become rather pointless very fast... maybe let the DC increase proportionally with the PC's corresponding saving throw... what do you think?

Well actually if you think of it makes sense. At the beginning the flaw is a major drawback possibly even becoming a obvious aspect of a character, but gradually as the PC gain levels, become more experienced and tries to overcome his flaw it becomes easier and in the end it is as good as overcome.
Junpei
12-07-05, 06:58 AM Well actually if you think of it makes sense. At the beginning the flaw is a major drawback possibly even becoming a obvious aspect of a character, but gradually as the PC gain levels, become more experienced and tries to overcome his flaw it becomes easier and in the end it is as good as overcome.

That is true, however it is also slightly unbalanced against other flaws that, say, give to PCs ability penalties: A weak PC with a penalty of -2 to Constitution has to live forever with this imperfection, even if he amasses tons of Con boost items. Compared to the chances that a PC with a high Will save has to let his "saving throw flaw" kick in (read: throw a natural 1), the former seems rather heavier than the latter.

I'm just trying to find a method to never let a PC with this kind of flaw forget about it, since it is a feature of his personality that in my opinion should never be underestimated even at epic levels... especially because he's taking a bonus feat in exchange, and I don't want my players to see flaws as an easy chance to take free feats ;)
FriendoftheDork
12-07-05, 07:31 AM That is true, however it is also slightly unbalanced against other flaws that, say, give to PCs ability penalties: A weak PC with a penalty of -2 to Constitution has to live forever with this imperfection, even if he amasses tons of Con boost items. Compared to the chances that a PC with a high Will save has to let his "saving throw flaw" kick in (read: throw a natural 1), the former seems rather heavier than the latter.

I'm just trying to find a method to never let a PC with this kind of flaw forget about it, since it is a feature of his personality that in my opinion should never be underestimated even at epic levels... especially because he's taking a bonus feat in exchange, and I don't want my players to see flaws as an easy chance to take free feats ;)

Well those flaws are simply not balanced toward eachother. Most flaws in UA are unbalanced if you give a free feat in return. It would be balanced if you got an appropriate edge in return. So if you took a flaw that gave you -2 con you could get an edge that gave you +2 dex.

If however you got a flaw that made you save DC 12 or be shaken in combat you'd get an edge that was similarily weak at higher levels. I can only think of the Run feat atm, but something else would be more appropriate.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Junpei 12-07-05, 05:08 AM	Hello folks :) I've always played with flaws for my PCs, since I think they are a nice way to improve roleplaying and deepen the caracters' personalities. Recently, though, I forced my players to choose only flaws with numeric effects, 'cause roleplaying ones are a little too difficult for me to manage. Browsing through this forum, Dragon Magazine and other similar sources, I found some interesting flaws that require their owner to make a saving throw (Will, usually) to do something in particular (for instance, attacking creatures of a certain type, or avoiding to become shaken at the beginning of each combat). I'd really like to introduce them as well in my adventures, since they have a physical effect, but also share a clear problem: the DCs for aforementioned saving throws are all set and fixed, and if a DC 12 Will save could be a nuisance for a 1st level character, it will be less and less intimidating once experience starts to pile up, and spells and magic items to enhance saves make their appearance. So, anyone know a nice way to "improve" this kind of flaws for higher level characters and make them always effective against their actions? Otherwise, they will become rather pointless very fast... maybe let the DC increase proportionally with the PC's corresponding saving throw... what do you think?
FriendoftheDork 12-07-05, 05:50 AM	Hello folks :) I've always played with flaws for my PCs, since I think they are a nice way to improve roleplaying and deepen the caracters' personalities. Recently, though, I forced my players to choose only flaws with numeric effects, 'cause roleplaying ones are a little too difficult for me to manage. Browsing through this forum, Dragon Magazine and other similar sources, I found some interesting flaws that require their owner to make a saving throw (Will, usually) to do something in particular (for instance, attacking creatures of a certain type, or avoiding to become shaken at the beginning of each combat). I'd really like to introduce them as well in my adventures, since they have a physical effect, but also share a clear problem: the DCs for aforementioned saving throws are all set and fixed, and if a DC 12 Will save could be a nuisance for a 1st level character, it will be less and less intimidating once experience starts to pile up, and spells and magic items to enhance saves make their appearance. So, anyone know a nice way to "improve" this kind of flaws for higher level characters and make them always effective against their actions? Otherwise, they will become rather pointless very fast... maybe let the DC increase proportionally with the PC's corresponding saving throw... what do you think? Well actually if you think of it makes sense. At the beginning the flaw is a major drawback possibly even becoming a obvious aspect of a character, but gradually as the PC gain levels, become more experienced and tries to overcome his flaw it becomes easier and in the end it is as good as overcome.
Junpei 12-07-05, 06:58 AM	Well actually if you think of it makes sense. At the beginning the flaw is a major drawback possibly even becoming a obvious aspect of a character, but gradually as the PC gain levels, become more experienced and tries to overcome his flaw it becomes easier and in the end it is as good as overcome. That is true, however it is also slightly unbalanced against other flaws that, say, give to PCs ability penalties: A weak PC with a penalty of -2 to Constitution has to live forever with this imperfection, even if he amasses tons of Con boost items. Compared to the chances that a PC with a high Will save has to let his "saving throw flaw" kick in (read: throw a natural 1), the former seems rather heavier than the latter. I'm just trying to find a method to never let a PC with this kind of flaw forget about it, since it is a feature of his personality that in my opinion should never be underestimated even at epic levels... especially because he's taking a bonus feat in exchange, and I don't want my players to see flaws as an easy chance to take free feats ;)
FriendoftheDork 12-07-05, 07:31 AM	That is true, however it is also slightly unbalanced against other flaws that, say, give to PCs ability penalties: A weak PC with a penalty of -2 to Constitution has to live forever with this imperfection, even if he amasses tons of Con boost items. Compared to the chances that a PC with a high Will save has to let his "saving throw flaw" kick in (read: throw a natural 1), the former seems rather heavier than the latter. I'm just trying to find a method to never let a PC with this kind of flaw forget about it, since it is a feature of his personality that in my opinion should never be underestimated even at epic levels... especially because he's taking a bonus feat in exchange, and I don't want my players to see flaws as an easy chance to take free feats ;) Well those flaws are simply not balanced toward eachother. Most flaws in UA are unbalanced if you give a free feat in return. It would be balanced if you got an appropriate edge in return. So if you took a flaw that gave you -2 con you could get an edge that gave you +2 dex. If however you got a flaw that made you save DC 12 or be shaken in combat you'd get an edge that was similarily weak at higher levels. I can only think of the Run feat atm, but something else would be more appropriate.