School of 'Mana'-Spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

School of 'Mana'-Spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Naderion
05-05-07, 05:13 PM If you use a spell-point system, you'll pretty soon start to create magical effects that regenerate spell-points, steal spell points, burn spellpoints for other nifty effects, store spellpoints in bottles, ...
But what school would these spell be?

Maybe "Conjuration (Mana)", because it works that way with regenerating hit points.
Or "Nercromancy", because it's canneling of kind-of life-forces?
Or "Evocation", because it's the manipulation of some energy opposed to matter.
Or it could even be "Enchantment", because it's a purly mental thing.
Or maybe no school at all because it's a universal thing that deals with 'raw' magic.

What's your ideas on this?
Tempest Stormwind
05-05-07, 05:48 PM Note: Spending magic to make magic isn't a good idea.

My solution? Look to psionics, which already does this.

The solution there is to look at HOW the effect affects power points.

Bestow Power forges a psychic link between targets and enables transferring power points from one to another (although mechanically, there are problems with it). It's Telepathy (Mind-Affecting) as a result (read: Enchantment).

Leech Field causes your body to react to dissipating psionic energy, becoming a magnet of sorts, gaining power points whenever you make a save against a power. It's Psychometabolism (read: Transmutation).

Metaconcert... well, in theory it lets one person direct the mental energies of another, but no one knows exactly how the mechanics work (unless they use a fixed version of it). All versions, including the fix, are Telepathy (Mind-Affecting).

Mind Trap sets up a mental trap that triggers if anyone tries to mess with your head, depleting power points from anyone who targets you with a telepathy power. It's not very good, but it's Telepathy (Mind-Affecting) again.

Power Leech is a simple power-point draining power that acts like a mental siphon, depleting 1d6 power points and adding 1 to your reserve for every round you concentrate (uniquely on this power, doing so is a full-round action). This is also a mind-affecting Telepathy effect, but is also a Compulsion.

Psychic Vampire charges your hand or a natural weapon to dissipate your enemy's power points on impact, or damages the mind if they're out (or nonpsionic). It's psychometabolism.

There's also the Mindcrusher weapon ability (essentially Psychic Vampire) and Mindfeeder (which requires Psychic Vampire but operates completely differently). Both are Psychometabolism.

It seems that all power-point affecting effects are either telepathy (if they're direct) or psychometabolism (if they change something else into a siphon).

This suggests that Transmutation or Enchantment are the way to go here. I could also see a case being made for divination.
Naderion
05-05-07, 06:05 PM They are telepathy because psionics is a purely mental thing. There's no such a thing a surrounding magical energies you manipulate and mystical wells of power, at least that's what I usually get told when I ask why psionics are not magic. :D

The system I'm working on is specifically tailored for the world I'm working on, which pretty strongly focuses on mystical and eldritch forces in the enviroment with druids and witches as the most commonly spellcasters, who litterarily "draw" their magical power from the ground. I think Enchanment doesn't really work there, because one does not mess with someones mind, but with an energy stored in his.. body... soul... whatever. :D
But transmutation might be an idea. Evocation appears to be the school of choice for spells that just hurl raw unrefined magical energy araund, blasting watever it hits first, but evocations are almost completely damage dealing spells or force effects, so this doesn't work with most spells I have in mind either.
But I haven't thought of transmutation at all, though now you mention it it does make some sense. It's messing around with stuff and the like. :D
sabrewolf
05-06-07, 01:32 AM Just a humble :twocents: here, but if (or better, when) i use such aspect of magic, i.e. spell points (mana or whatever), in ways alike that of polymorph, mana related spells would get it´s own school... somethng aling the lines of meta-arcanism or some such...

Probably would be the same school where spells used for seeing, underestanding and forging magical patterns (see magic, detect magic, read magic, arcane mark...) would end up gravitating too.

And secconding what Tempest Stormwind said, magic that make/create magic/energy isnt a good idea.... yet, if instead of replenishing one´s capacity with a night´s sleep, one recovers his mana reserve slowly along a time frame, absorbing it from the environment, there could be spells that improoves such recovery: siphoning mana from a greater area, thus increasing the amount one recovers over a certain amount of time as well as depleting an area for a certain other amount of time...
Thomar_of_Uointer
05-07-07, 12:37 AM Here's how I dealt with this and all related issues in the Mario D20 System (http://www.kobolds-keep.net/MD20Rules.pdf):

Mana Gift, Lesser
Evocation
Level: Mage 1, Healer 1, Royal 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 minute; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No
The target gains 1d4 temporary MP. These last for 1 minute or until used. These MP cannot be used to cast lesser mana gift, mana gift, mass mana gift, or greater mana gift.
You cannot target yourself with this spell.
Focus: A crystal rod worth 100 gp.

Mana Gift
Evocation
Level: Mage 3, Healer 3, Royal 3
As lesser mana gift, except as noted here.
The target gains 2d4 temporary MP.

Mana Gift, Greater
Evocation
Level: Mage 5, Healer 5, Royal 5
As lesser mana gift, except as noted here.
The target gains 3d4 temporary MP.

Mana Gift, Mass
Evocation
Level: Mage 6, Healer 6, Royal 6
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Target: One creature per caster level
As lesser mana gift, except as noted here.
Each affected creature gains 2d4 temporary MP.

Power Leech
Necromancy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Mage 4, Life/Death 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Target: Any creature
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Power Resistance: Yes
Your brow erupts with an arc of crackling dark energy that connects to your foe, draining it of 1d8 MP and adding 1 of those points to your own (unless that gain would cause you to exceed your maximum). The drain continues each round you maintain concentration while the target is within range. If the target is reduced to 0 MP, the spell ends.
Concentrating to maintain this spell is a full-round action instead of a standard action.

Giving or manipulating MP is Evocation. Draining or stealing them is Necromancy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Naderion 05-05-07, 05:13 PM	If you use a spell-point system, you'll pretty soon start to create magical effects that regenerate spell-points, steal spell points, burn spellpoints for other nifty effects, store spellpoints in bottles, ... But what school would these spell be? Maybe "Conjuration (Mana)", because it works that way with regenerating hit points. Or "Nercromancy", because it's canneling of kind-of life-forces? Or "Evocation", because it's the manipulation of some energy opposed to matter. Or it could even be "Enchantment", because it's a purly mental thing. Or maybe no school at all because it's a universal thing that deals with 'raw' magic. What's your ideas on this?
Tempest Stormwind 05-05-07, 05:48 PM	Note: Spending magic to make magic isn't a good idea. My solution? Look to psionics, which already does this. The solution there is to look at HOW the effect affects power points. Bestow Power forges a psychic link between targets and enables transferring power points from one to another (although mechanically, there are problems with it). It's Telepathy (Mind-Affecting) as a result (read: Enchantment). Leech Field causes your body to react to dissipating psionic energy, becoming a magnet of sorts, gaining power points whenever you make a save against a power. It's Psychometabolism (read: Transmutation). Metaconcert... well, in theory it lets one person direct the mental energies of another, but no one knows exactly how the mechanics work (unless they use a fixed version of it). All versions, including the fix, are Telepathy (Mind-Affecting). Mind Trap sets up a mental trap that triggers if anyone tries to mess with your head, depleting power points from anyone who targets you with a telepathy power. It's not very good, but it's Telepathy (Mind-Affecting) again. Power Leech is a simple power-point draining power that acts like a mental siphon, depleting 1d6 power points and adding 1 to your reserve for every round you concentrate (uniquely on this power, doing so is a full-round action). This is also a mind-affecting Telepathy effect, but is also a Compulsion. Psychic Vampire charges your hand or a natural weapon to dissipate your enemy's power points on impact, or damages the mind if they're out (or nonpsionic). It's psychometabolism. There's also the Mindcrusher weapon ability (essentially Psychic Vampire) and Mindfeeder (which requires Psychic Vampire but operates completely differently). Both are Psychometabolism. It seems that all power-point affecting effects are either telepathy (if they're direct) or psychometabolism (if they change something else into a siphon). This suggests that Transmutation or Enchantment are the way to go here. I could also see a case being made for divination.
Naderion 05-05-07, 06:05 PM	They are telepathy because psionics is a purely mental thing. There's no such a thing a surrounding magical energies you manipulate and mystical wells of power, at least that's what I usually get told when I ask why psionics are not magic. :D The system I'm working on is specifically tailored for the world I'm working on, which pretty strongly focuses on mystical and eldritch forces in the enviroment with druids and witches as the most commonly spellcasters, who litterarily "draw" their magical power from the ground. I think Enchanment doesn't really work there, because one does not mess with someones mind, but with an energy stored in his.. body... soul... whatever. :D But transmutation might be an idea. Evocation appears to be the school of choice for spells that just hurl raw unrefined magical energy araund, blasting watever it hits first, but evocations are almost completely damage dealing spells or force effects, so this doesn't work with most spells I have in mind either. But I haven't thought of transmutation at all, though now you mention it it does make some sense. It's messing around with stuff and the like. :D
sabrewolf 05-06-07, 01:32 AM	Just a humble :twocents: here, but if (or better, when) i use such aspect of magic, i.e. spell points (mana or whatever), in ways alike that of polymorph, mana related spells would get it´s own school... somethng aling the lines of meta-arcanism or some such... Probably would be the same school where spells used for seeing, underestanding and forging magical patterns (see magic, detect magic, read magic, arcane mark...) would end up gravitating too. And secconding what Tempest Stormwind said, magic that make/create magic/energy isnt a good idea.... yet, if instead of replenishing one´s capacity with a night´s sleep, one recovers his mana reserve slowly along a time frame, absorbing it from the environment, there could be spells that improoves such recovery: siphoning mana from a greater area, thus increasing the amount one recovers over a certain amount of time as well as depleting an area for a certain other amount of time...
Thomar_of_Uointer 05-07-07, 12:37 AM	Here's how I dealt with this and all related issues in the Mario D20 System (http://www.kobolds-keep.net/MD20Rules.pdf): Mana Gift, Lesser Evocation Level: Mage 1, Healer 1, Royal 1 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One creature Duration: 1 minute; see text Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: No The target gains 1d4 temporary MP. These last for 1 minute or until used. These MP cannot be used to cast lesser mana gift, mana gift, mass mana gift, or greater mana gift. You cannot target yourself with this spell. Focus: A crystal rod worth 100 gp. Mana Gift Evocation Level: Mage 3, Healer 3, Royal 3 As lesser mana gift, except as noted here. The target gains 2d4 temporary MP. Mana Gift, Greater Evocation Level: Mage 5, Healer 5, Royal 5 As lesser mana gift, except as noted here. The target gains 3d4 temporary MP. Mana Gift, Mass Evocation Level: Mage 6, Healer 6, Royal 6 Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels) Target: One creature per caster level As lesser mana gift, except as noted here. Each affected creature gains 2d4 temporary MP. Power Leech Necromancy [Mind-Affecting] Level: Mage 4, Life/Death 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels) Target: Any creature Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level; see text Saving Throw: Will negates Power Resistance: Yes Your brow erupts with an arc of crackling dark energy that connects to your foe, draining it of 1d8 MP and adding 1 of those points to your own (unless that gain would cause you to exceed your maximum). The drain continues each round you maintain concentration while the target is within range. If the target is reduced to 0 MP, the spell ends. Concentrating to maintain this spell is a full-round action instead of a standard action. Giving or manipulating MP is Evocation. Draining or stealing them is Necromancy.