Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 06:50 AM	There used to be a few good class calculators online, but lately I have not been able to locate any to put on my new computer. I think I have a fairly good eye for determining class balance, but I'd like something a little objective to make sure I haven't overshot the balance of my homebrewed classes. Anyone know of one? I've been reading over the calculator on the BESM sight, but it doesn't really give any values for the non-basic class abilities.
Gilean 09-25-05, 10:54 AM	Lotus crane, or someone like that, who has been doing vairant classes for a time now, has some sort of class calculator. Contact that one.
Millennium 09-25-05, 11:01 AM	I like BESM's method a lot. I'm not a fan of point-buy systems for constructing characters, but I find them very useful when constructing classes. However, you really should get the book if you want to use it to calculate classes. They do it for the basic D&D core classes and races in the book, which helps things a lot. They have a lot of their own core classes too; you probably wouldn't want to use them in your own game but you can get an idea of how they work. They also have the Adventurer, a "classless class" whose sole class feature is getting points every level to buy Attributes. This said, they rely very much on ad-hoc rulings to decide on point values for class features. They provide a large set of Attributes in the book, though, along with point values for each, so you can get a good feel for this sort of thing.
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 07:04 PM	This said, they rely very much on ad-hoc rulings to decide on point values for class features. They provide a large set of Attributes in the book, though, along with point values for each, so you can get a good feel for this sort of thing. I downloaded their SRD, which has the D&D class breakdowns, but doesn't seem to detail the price of each of the class abilities other than HD and such. Does the real book do this?
jagggar 09-26-05, 09:01 AM	I've got the stingy gamer edition, and it doesn't give the points used for class special abilities. here's one http://rumkin.com/reference/dnd/download/classconstruction.pdf
Aurotuli 09-27-05, 10:53 PM	A while back a survey was done by the members of this board, ranking by power each of the base classes. Below is the result. The four 9th level casters occupy the top four slots, with the Druid at top and the Cleric and Wizard tied for second. The Monk is seen as mediocre - average, really. The Bard and Fighter as seen as the weakest. Most on these boards seem to agree with this (and I stress "most" as there are some that do not). 9.4 Druid 8.6 Cleric 8.6 Wizard 6.4 Sorc 5.9 Rogue 5.8 Barbarian 5.4 Monk 5.2 Ranger 5.0 Paladin 4.7 Bard 3.5 Fighter The Class Construction Kit (the link in the above post) has a different power rating for the base classes: Monk 287 Bard 276 Paladin 257 Druid 250 Rogue 251 Barbarian 245 Fighter 245 Cleric 240 Wizard 235 Ranger 237 Sorceror 215 As you can see, three of the four 9th level casters hold the weakest positions, and the Monk and Bard hold the highest positions - an almost polar reversal of the prior table! Needless to say, this suggests that the system is not wholely accurate - at least in play. The trouble seems to exist in two areas: class specials and spell casting. It underrates the latter and overrates the former. The Monk is in the top position only because it gets a special every level; these add up. The general pattern on the above list (with the exception of the Ranger) is that the more specials one has the closer to the top one seems to be. The Bard has few specials (songs), but it also has 6th level casting - thus its high position. So take the Class Construction Kit with a grain of salt. It is nice. It gets a lot done, but it does not perfectly match the reality of play. There was a product on RPGNow.com a while back called Buy the Numbers (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2909&). It basically did the same as the CCK, but it varied the values of the specials until all classes were - level for level - almost exactly equal to each other. This is therefore only slightly better than the CCK, but it is closer to the design philosophy of the creators of 3E, so perhaps it is a good buy for creating classes that are more or less "equal" - at least as far as all the base classes are "equal." added url