Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Limit 11-15-05, 09:06 AM	I don't know how many of you have read Iron Heroes but I really like the concept of the book. It basically eliminates the need for players to have magic items. Their slogan is: It is not the sword, but the arm that wields it. It is not the spell, but the mind that shapes it.However, what I don't like about the book is how far the classes and rules deviate from the standard D&D rules. They've added new things like ability pools, etc. I've decided to recreate the same flavor using the normal PHB classes with some upgrades. I'll be added a few houserules, like a defense bonus that increase similarly to BAB, armor as DR, etc. I would like to keep magic in the world to a limited degree. What I'm trying to avoid is using divination to get quick answers, teleportation, plane travelling, and other powerful magic concepts. When I try to think of an inspiration for this type of magic, I keep coming back to LOTR. Yes Gandalf had the ability to cast magic and there was an artifact that could make one person invisible at a price, but it wasn't like Gandalf was using teleport spells - he still rode a horse and needed animals to get him off the roof. Before the massive battle, no one was thinking about if they had time and resources to upgrade the magical enchantment on their weapon or add fortification to their armor. So I'm open to suggestions on how to recreate this in my campaign world. I've thought about designing a class that only gets access to spells that I think are appropriate. My other thought was to use the ranger and possibly assassin as the main spellcasters in the world, giving them a slightly altered spell list (I'd remove invisibility and summoning spells, for example). But like I said, I'm open to suggestions. Let's have em! :)
Mac Awol 11-15-05, 11:22 AM	First thing to do is remove the spell casting ability from such classes as the ranger and the paladin, maybe replace it with a few feats one for each level of spell lost, perhaps so a paladin and a ranger gets 4 extra feat/abilities over 20 levels... now you have a good staring point: The Bard gets a spell progession almost as the normal ranger/paladin, remember to add progression for cantrips. very little change in spell list. and 2 extra feats for the spell levels they have lost. The Cleric/Druid/Wizard/Sorcerer gets a spell progression almost as the normal bard, with some changes, and very little change in spell list. and 3 extra feats/abilities for the spell levels they have lost. Offcause the higher spell levels don't have to disappear they can simply just be turned into epic spells. Offcause Prestige classes that get their own spell progression as compared to +1 to existing spell level, loses it and gains extra feat/abilities instead... was that a useful suggestion??
Klytus 11-15-05, 11:46 AM	For low magic, have arcane spellcasters make a Spellcraft check every time they try to cast a spell. Even at higher levels, there is always that 1-in-20 chance they will roll a "1" and botch the spell. For divine spellcasters, maybe replace this roll with a skill check against Knowledge (religion). As the DM, you have complete control over the availability of spells. Just go through the spell lists and pick and chose which ones you don't want in the game, or simply reassign some of them them to a higher level (like making fireball a 5th level spell). Also, decide on the attitude of the general populace toward spellcasters. The stereotype is that dDivine spellcasters are held in high regard while arcane spellcasters are feared and shunned. One good source of low magic is Conan the Barbarian. There is magic in that world, but it is not common, and not very flashy.
elven warriorXX 11-15-05, 02:19 PM	use my magic points :) i will post below. First you could either use my magic point method or just let casters make a spellcraft check of 15+spell levelx3 -caster level -spellcraft mod. this will alow the chance of spell failer :) here is my magic points (spell can not be Augmented, there power is based on level as normal). Magic points All wizards use a magic point system. A wizard gets magic points to use spells on. See below to see the level of the spell and how many points it costs. Every level the wizard gains 2 new spells to put in his spell book. The spells can be of any level but can not exceed the max spell level. Wizards use there old spells-per-day chart as their new prepared spells chart. A wizard can prepare any spell he knows into a prepared spell slot. He can cast his prepare spells as many times he wants as long as he has Magic points. He can try to cast a spell that he has not prepared but must make a Spellcraft check of 15+spell levelx3-spellcaster level-intelligence mod. Even if he makes the check he takes 1d4 per spell level in nonleathal damage /2 if he does not make a Wisdom save, if he makes the save he does not take damage. If he fails not only are the spell points lost he still takes the damage (not halved) but can still make Wisdom save for half damage. NOTE: level 0 spells cost no MP and you can cast as many as you like. at first level the wizard gains 4 level 1 spells and all level 0 spells Wizard level Magic points per day 1st 2 2nd 4 3rd 7 4th 11 5th 16 6th 24 7th 33 8th 44 9th 56 10th 72 11th 88 12th 105 13th 121 14th 136 15th 152 16th 168 17th 184 18th 202 19th 218 20th 236
Xeviat-DM 11-15-05, 04:04 PM	I have two suggestions that I intend on trying out when I want to do a low-magic campaign. First, don't change the classes; except maybe removing paladin and ranger spellcasting in return for bonus feats at 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20. Second, don't worry about changing any of the wealth stuff, but try out these ideas: First, the enhancement+ of weapons and armor becomes a function of the craft skill; a +3 sword is not magic, it is simply very well made. Non+ enhancements (like flaming) would be magic, as usual; this would make magic seem more rare. Second, either try out Weapons of Legacy, which makes magic seem more magical, or attempt to hole up the majority (50%) of a character's wealth in a single magic item. The Fighter might have a magic axe, and the wizard might have a magic staff, but that's pretty much all the magic they have on them. Remember, the PCs are superior to the common folk. Wizards are very rare, the PCs might be some of the only wizards around. Large towns will have a few, but compared to hundreds of citizens, it won't really matter.
Milo HoBo 11-15-05, 05:27 PM	Don't forget to let them sleep more so that their hit points can be healed through natural healing. Over all, I've thought about doing something similar and really enjoy the concept. Low magic campaigns are rare these days, but offer alot of potential, IMHO. Be careful about putting in monsters with DR x/magic because if a magic weapon is rare, your up front combatant will be unhappy with you. Most random encounter tables should be discarded because of such instances. Also be wary of undead that deal negative levels, con damage/drain, and just in general. Take into concideration what creatures are rare, those that rely on being made or twisted from magic, such as golems and certain abberations. Also think about your plane set up and what spells specifically will be affected. The positive energy plane heals characters who are just there. I can't really think of anything else. Some classes have a distinct advantage in a low-magic setting. These are as follows: Soulknife (because of free weapon enchantments) Sorcerers (because they don't have to find their spells on scrolls, when scrolls will be rare) Barbarians (because they have the power to do far more damage to over come damage reduction, rather than fancy combat manuvers) Clerics don't have to find spells, they're just given them Druids are in the same boat as clerics Psions, wilder, psywarior (the same as a sorcerer) Bard is a neat choice Monk (who doesn't require as many magic items to be useful and can bypass some damage reduction) Warmage (not really in need of magical equiptment and able to blast really well) Classes that face trouble ahead would be: Wizard (trying to find spells on scrolls and other wizards spell book) Archivist (same as wizard) Fighter (less capable without proper equiptment) I don't know anything about the artificer, but someone might mention it. I know that they do some magic item creation. I seperate the warlock because at low levels he might be less useful, but if he makes magic items once the ability is gained he could be the best addition to a party. Warlock (little or no magic items hinders one of the best warlock abilities, but they also later have the ability to make magic items, this is a toss up to the characters in play, really) And on a completely different note, you could change all of the healing spells to change lost hit points into subduel damage, just a thought. Change the school to transmutation and call it Close Minor Wound
Leach 11-15-05, 05:41 PM	Quick-and-dirty method to make your world low magic: Step 1: Remove all full-progression spellcasters (Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer) Step 2: Put a cap on "common" magic items based on price (say, 10,000 GP). Anything above that price is now extremely rare and counts a minor artifact. This probably isn't the best method mentioned so far, but it's the easiest. Be careful, since there may be unintended side-effects of implementing it.
Limit 11-15-05, 09:50 PM	Thank you all for your suggestions! First of all, here is the class list I was planning to use: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue, Ranger (Spellless per CW), Samurai, Swashbuckler, Scout I was also considering Ninja, but they get invisibility, so its still up in the air. As far as healing goes, I'm going to be using reserve points and modification to the heal skill. This will give my players a chance to heal between battles, but during combat will be nastier. My actual intent for magic items is to not have the players use any magic items at all. I'm considering using the "Better Masterwork" idea to let them craft better weapons. However, I wouldn't have a lot of skilled craftsmen in the world, so it'd be up to them to fashion them. I also intend to use mostly NPC opponents. Our last few campaigns have been full of monsters and I think if I use NPCs, it will work better because they'll be subject to the same rules as the PCs. I'm looking to include one casting class that is self contained. Iron Heroes does this by making that one class use magic that is unpredictable. All spells have a chance at mishap. I don't want to do anything that drastic, so I think I'm just going to make one class that has a spell list I pick. Any other suggestions? I've appreciated everything you've shared so far.
elven warriorXX 11-15-05, 10:44 PM	For the Artificer just take him out completly
lostone 11-16-05, 09:22 AM	First thing to do is remove the spell casting ability from such classes as the ranger and the paladin, maybe replace it with a few feats one for each level of spell lost, perhaps so a paladin and a ranger gets 4 extra feat/abilities over 20 levels...Paladin and Ranger have non-spellcasting variants in Complete Warrior. A simple method to keep spellcasters from relying on spells as much: Casting them causes nonlethal damage to the spellcaster, physically weakening them, showing the casting spells uses resources from the body, exhausting the spellcaster. It may take some tweaking, but you could do something like: casting a spell results in nonlethal damage equal to the spell level x2 (with 0 level spells costing 1), so that 8th level spell will do 16 nonlethal damage to the spellcaster. If that feels too much, then have it be equal to the spell level, an 8th level spell does 8 nonlethal damage. There are many examples in various novels of spellcasters fainting or passing out after casting particularly difficult and powerful spells. This method would also serve to make Liches more powerful, since they are immune to undead. I have often felt Liches aren't fearsome enough in 3.x.
BrianD 11-16-05, 09:33 AM	Check out the link in my signature. Right up yer alley, I think.
Glak 11-19-05, 09:48 PM	Unfortunately the magical items and wealth by level table are built into the combat system. Around 5th level a low magic campaign starts to have trouble with ACs not keeping up with attack bonuses. This is because there is a BAB but no BDB. There are two solutions, the simple one is to give characters a BDB of 1/3. The complex one is to give characters higher BDB that are on average equal to BAB. So a rogue might have a BDB of 1/1 and a cleric would have 1/2. So now that BAB matches up with BDB you need to fix armor. You can turn it into damage reduction and/or conversion. Or maybe you could give different weapons different bonuses to hit. So a short sword might give +4 to hit which would be counteracted by the chain shirt's +4 to AC.