Simplified Spell Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Simplified Spell Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Grod_The_Giant
01-26-08, 11:28 PM Hello everyone. My players and I recently started a new campaign, with characters starting at 14th level. Before we began, one of my players commented on all the low-level spells he would never cast, and how nice it would be to trade them in for higher level spells. We all agreed, but didn't know how to implement such a system. We looked at the spell points variant in the SRD, but decided we liked the simplicity of set caster levels, and found the process of augmenting to be unnecessarily confusing. Also, we were worried about the potential abuse of such a system, such as spamming Disintegrate. After much talk, we decided on the following system:

1. Spells of levels that haven't reached the max spells/day (usually the highest two, but it varies) are cast using normal rules, with spells per day. This is to prevent the abuse of high-level spells, as well as to emphasize the goal of our system: to add versatility to lower-levels of spells and allow them to be used more effectively.
2. Spells of lower levels are cast using points from a spell pool. To get the number of points in the spell pool, you count the number of spell levels your character gets. Casting a spell drains points from your pool equal to the spell's level. 0-level spells do not use spell points, and are cast at will.*
3. When preparing spells, a character picks spells as though casting them- each spell prepared drains from his pool. does that make sense? I'm finding it hard to put into words.
4. caster level and spell save DCs are calculated normally.
5. Spells known are calculated normally.

Example: Beren the 7th level sorcerer has 4 3rd level spells, 6 2nd level spells, 6 1st level spells and 6 Cantrips (0-level spells) according to the table in the PHB. As his 3rd level spells have not reached the maximum per day, they are not converted to spell points. His pool of spell points is equal to (6x2)+(6x1)= 18.

At the entrence to the Dread Tombs of Darkness, he casts Light on his friend Grod's sword. Light is a cantrip, so this uses no spell points.

Later, he fights a group of goblins and casts Burning Hands. As a first level spell, this uses 1 spell point. It does 5d4 damage, with a save DC of 11+Charisma Modifier. The next round, a Hill Giant blunders in, and Beren hits it with a Lightning Bolt. As a third level spell (a level he has not maxed out in spells/day), it does NOT use any spell points, but does use up a spells/day slot.

Yes, I know 0-level spells at will isn't strictly by the rules, but really, what's the harm? They're things a caster ought to be able to do at will. They can have no effect on game balance unless repeatedly abused (as in, cast hundreds of times), a circumstance most groups can trust their players not to cause- it's certainly never been an issue in my groups. Regardless, this isn't the thread for arguing this topic.

Well? Thoughts? Comments? Ideas for improvements?
Koushiro
01-27-08, 12:33 AM I'm worried about your group not seeing the value of those lower level spells. Most of them are very solid and useable all the time.
Lord QZip
01-27-08, 01:57 AM The only 0-th level spell I'd worry about being at will is Cure Minor Wounds. Free complete inbetween battle healing. With these rules, I'd have it so they can't heal to more than half-full hit points with Cure Minor. Your system seems to work, but does it really contribute to an increase in casting those lower level spells? That seems to be the point, but those lower level spells, you'd probably have had enough spells/day of them to cast them when you like. Granted I think I like this system a little bit better, but it doesn't seem to do enough good for a house rule for me to adopt it.
Grod_The_Giant
01-27-08, 08:26 PM That's a valid point, Koushiro, but this system simply adds flexiblity to the number of low-level spells you can cast- it doesn't let you use all your spell points to cast your most powerful spells.

Lord QZip, I know CMW is the only abusable 0-level spell. That's why I sat down with my players and explained that as long as they didn't abuse it, they wouldn't loose it. I can trust my players not to do cheap things like spend hours of in-game spamming it. If they do, then I would rule against it. If they don't- and they can be trusted to be mature about it- there's no need. It would be like forbidding characters from jumping off cliffs.
Oh, and the fact that I'm playing the party healer as a DMPC helps.

The point is not to encourage casting more low-level spells, but to encourage flexiblity. Flexibility, not more low-level spells. So the party sorcerer can cast Fly on everyone without worrying about running out of third-level spells. So the cleric can keep everyone supplied with Water Breathing spells.
squidyak
01-28-08, 11:55 AM I just use spell levels as spell points, max spell level according to class and level, and let em go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grod_The_Giant 01-26-08, 11:28 PM	Hello everyone. My players and I recently started a new campaign, with characters starting at 14th level. Before we began, one of my players commented on all the low-level spells he would never cast, and how nice it would be to trade them in for higher level spells. We all agreed, but didn't know how to implement such a system. We looked at the spell points variant in the SRD, but decided we liked the simplicity of set caster levels, and found the process of augmenting to be unnecessarily confusing. Also, we were worried about the potential abuse of such a system, such as spamming Disintegrate. After much talk, we decided on the following system: 1. Spells of levels that haven't reached the max spells/day (usually the highest two, but it varies) are cast using normal rules, with spells per day. This is to prevent the abuse of high-level spells, as well as to emphasize the goal of our system: to add versatility to lower-levels of spells and allow them to be used more effectively. 2. Spells of lower levels are cast using points from a spell pool. To get the number of points in the spell pool, you count the number of spell levels your character gets. Casting a spell drains points from your pool equal to the spell's level. 0-level spells do not use spell points, and are cast at will.* 3. When preparing spells, a character picks spells as though casting them- each spell prepared drains from his pool. does that make sense? I'm finding it hard to put into words. 4. caster level and spell save DCs are calculated normally. 5. Spells known are calculated normally. Example: Beren the 7th level sorcerer has 4 3rd level spells, 6 2nd level spells, 6 1st level spells and 6 Cantrips (0-level spells) according to the table in the PHB. As his 3rd level spells have not reached the maximum per day, they are not converted to spell points. His pool of spell points is equal to (6x2)+(6x1)= 18. At the entrence to the Dread Tombs of Darkness, he casts Light on his friend Grod's sword. Light is a cantrip, so this uses no spell points. Later, he fights a group of goblins and casts Burning Hands. As a first level spell, this uses 1 spell point. It does 5d4 damage, with a save DC of 11+Charisma Modifier. The next round, a Hill Giant blunders in, and Beren hits it with a Lightning Bolt. As a third level spell (a level he has not maxed out in spells/day), it does NOT use any spell points, but does use up a spells/day slot. Yes, I know 0-level spells at will isn't strictly by the rules, but really, what's the harm? They're things a caster ought to be able to do at will. They can have no effect on game balance unless repeatedly abused (as in, cast hundreds of times), a circumstance most groups can trust their players not to cause- it's certainly never been an issue in my groups. Regardless, this isn't the thread for arguing this topic. Well? Thoughts? Comments? Ideas for improvements?
Koushiro 01-27-08, 12:33 AM	I'm worried about your group not seeing the value of those lower level spells. Most of them are very solid and useable all the time.
Lord QZip 01-27-08, 01:57 AM	The only 0-th level spell I'd worry about being at will is Cure Minor Wounds. Free complete inbetween battle healing. With these rules, I'd have it so they can't heal to more than half-full hit points with Cure Minor. Your system seems to work, but does it really contribute to an increase in casting those lower level spells? That seems to be the point, but those lower level spells, you'd probably have had enough spells/day of them to cast them when you like. Granted I think I like this system a little bit better, but it doesn't seem to do enough good for a house rule for me to adopt it.
Grod_The_Giant 01-27-08, 08:26 PM	That's a valid point, Koushiro, but this system simply adds flexiblity to the number of low-level spells you can cast- it doesn't let you use all your spell points to cast your most powerful spells. Lord QZip, I know CMW is the only abusable 0-level spell. That's why I sat down with my players and explained that as long as they didn't abuse it, they wouldn't loose it. I can trust my players not to do cheap things like spend hours of in-game spamming it. If they do, then I would rule against it. If they don't- and they can be trusted to be mature about it- there's no need. It would be like forbidding characters from jumping off cliffs. Oh, and the fact that I'm playing the party healer as a DMPC helps. The point is not to encourage casting more low-level spells, but to encourage flexiblity. Flexibility, not more low-level spells. So the party sorcerer can cast Fly on everyone without worrying about running out of third-level spells. So the cleric can keep everyone supplied with Water Breathing spells.
squidyak 01-28-08, 11:55 AM	I just use spell levels as spell points, max spell level according to class and level, and let em go.