Sleep; deprivation and waking up [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sleep; deprivation and waking up [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Norseman
12-03-04, 02:44 AM I couldn't find anything about sleep in the DM's guide, so as far the current 3.5 rules go, there's nothing wrong with waking up one day and never going to sleep again.

So here's what I've come up with (any help/input is appreciated):

Every character must sleep every 16 hours for a total of 8 hours or suffer the effects of sleeplessness. If a character does not go to sleep after 16 hours of being awake, they become fatigued. If a character does not go to sleep after 24 hours of being awake, they become exhausted. If a character wakes up with less than 8 hours of sleep, they are fatigued three hours for every hour of sleep missed (so a character who sleeps 6 hours instead of 8 will be fatigued for the next 6 hours, and a character who sleeps for just 2 hours will be fatigued for the next 18 hours). A character who gets less than 4 hours of sleep will be exhausted instead of fatigued when they are awakened (so a character who sleeps only 2 hours will actually be exhausted for the next 18 hours). A character who has lost the state of exhaustion from being awakened too early becomes fatigued, not normal. No spell or other means will prematurely remove the fatigue or exhaustion.

(Note that exhaustion takes 1 hour of rest to be moved to fatigue, and fatigue takes 8 hours of rest to dissappear, so a character who is exhausted needs 9 hours of rest to be normal again.)

A character suffering fatigue from sleeplessness must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1 per previous check) or fall asleep. A character suffering exhaustion adds 5 to the DC for overcoming falling asleep. A character who is fighting or actively doing something automatically passes the check. If a character has been awake at least 32 hours, they must make a check every ten minutes.

When a character wakes up, no matter how rested, they are fatigued for the first 5 minutes (thus a character awakened with just 7 hours of sleep will actually be exhausted for the first five minutes).

After the second day of sleeplessness, a character takes a -1 penalty on intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. The character continues to lose 1 point of intelligence, wisdom, and charisma, each day until they fall unconcious. They will sleep and cannot be awoken for the next 9 hours +1 (to a maximum of +5) for each day they stayed awake.

Whad'ya think?
Kalender
12-03-04, 03:57 AM This is my little (I hope constructive) criticism. I think you're being a bit too harsh on the rules about rest.

I only sleep 5-6 hours a day and work all day quite ok. In fact, when I rest more (say, 8 hours) I wake up very tired and sleepy. Also, I can stay awake for 20 hours just fine. More than that and I begin to feel drowsy, though.

I'd rise the time to become fatigued to about 20-24 hours (hey, they're supposed to be heroes, huh? I'm quite a normal guy), and exhausted to about 32-48 hours.

It also varies with the level of activity. Adrenaline can be a great boost to fight sleep. I've spent two whole days in a row being only slightly fatigued... as long as I was doing something, dancing, walking, playing, having fun... (to succumb to sleep once the degree of activity decreased).

A final idea... once you begin applying penalties... have you thought about dexterity? because I'd say it's the first stat to drop. (Well, that and wisdom). I can count perfectly, but I couldn't react quickly if, say, someone threw a ball to me. (Although that would awake me, and I'd probably react to a second one quite better.)

Ok, just my 2c!

see ya!
Klaus van der Kroft
12-03-04, 09:24 AM I think that your idea is quite good indeed. And the points made by Kalender are worthy of taking note too. But let me also add a bit.

I think that the amount of time you can remain sleepless should depend on your Constitution score. After all, the effects of sleep deprivation act because your body has had no time to recover fully, and that should be reflected on your Constitution. You could make it so a character needs sleep every X amount of hours, where X is three times his/her Constitution score. If the character remains sleepless after that time has passed, he/she becomes Fatigued. A Fatigued character should have a penalty to Dexterity, since the body us not "awake enough", and it tends to become clumsy. When Fatigued, the character must make the Fortitude check (DC 10 +1 for each check) every hour. If the character fails the check, he becomes Exhausted, recieving further penalties to Dexterity, as well as Wisdom (I am not very sure if Intelligence should have any penalty) every passing hour, until reaching 0. The character becomes automatically Exhausted if it remains asleep a number of hours equal to 4 times it's Constitution score (so a typical human with CON 10 would last a bit more than two full days awake, something most of us can do while still functioning relatively well). Once the character reaches 0 Dexterity, it's body stops moving and it falls motionless (Paralysed) to the ground, while reaching Wisdom of 0 means unconciousness. In order to recover the lost points, the character must sleep one hour for each lost point. After falling unconcious, the character must sleep at least one full hour (and thus recovering one point of Dex and Wis) before being able to wake up at all.

The system you propose also opens the way for many different things, such as special spells, potions, armor effects, etc. Here are some ideas:

Potion of Sleepness: Upon being ingested, this potion infuses the character with additional energy. Characters under the effect of this potion may remain unfatigued for an amount of hours equal to 4 times their Constitution score, and unexhausted up to 6 times their Constitution score. Furthermore, they recieve a +4 bonus to checks for surpassing the Fortitude save DC to avoid becoming Exhausted. The effect of this potion last until the character falls asleep or unconcious.
77IM
12-03-04, 10:58 PM These are all good rules, but this isn't really the right forum for this sort of discussion. Sadly, with the recent board re-org, I'm not sure what the correct board is -- there doesn't seem to be one for "rules general."

-- 77IM :P
His Majesty
12-04-04, 05:01 AM This should be in the Unearthed Arcana and house rules forum.

Anyway, I don't think that Wisdom should be penalized at the early stages of fatigue. I usually see better at certain times in the night, and I've often noticed that my creative juices start flowing fervently at 3 am. I have trouble writing as fast as I think, but that's Intelligence, not Wisdom...
WizO_Sith
12-05-04, 04:43 PM Moved to the UA/House Rule Forum.

*Bamf*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Norseman 12-03-04, 02:44 AM	I couldn't find anything about sleep in the DM's guide, so as far the current 3.5 rules go, there's nothing wrong with waking up one day and never going to sleep again. So here's what I've come up with (any help/input is appreciated): Every character must sleep every 16 hours for a total of 8 hours or suffer the effects of sleeplessness. If a character does not go to sleep after 16 hours of being awake, they become fatigued. If a character does not go to sleep after 24 hours of being awake, they become exhausted. If a character wakes up with less than 8 hours of sleep, they are fatigued three hours for every hour of sleep missed (so a character who sleeps 6 hours instead of 8 will be fatigued for the next 6 hours, and a character who sleeps for just 2 hours will be fatigued for the next 18 hours). A character who gets less than 4 hours of sleep will be exhausted instead of fatigued when they are awakened (so a character who sleeps only 2 hours will actually be exhausted for the next 18 hours). A character who has lost the state of exhaustion from being awakened too early becomes fatigued, not normal. No spell or other means will prematurely remove the fatigue or exhaustion. (Note that exhaustion takes 1 hour of rest to be moved to fatigue, and fatigue takes 8 hours of rest to dissappear, so a character who is exhausted needs 9 hours of rest to be normal again.) A character suffering fatigue from sleeplessness must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1 per previous check) or fall asleep. A character suffering exhaustion adds 5 to the DC for overcoming falling asleep. A character who is fighting or actively doing something automatically passes the check. If a character has been awake at least 32 hours, they must make a check every ten minutes. When a character wakes up, no matter how rested, they are fatigued for the first 5 minutes (thus a character awakened with just 7 hours of sleep will actually be exhausted for the first five minutes). After the second day of sleeplessness, a character takes a -1 penalty on intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. The character continues to lose 1 point of intelligence, wisdom, and charisma, each day until they fall unconcious. They will sleep and cannot be awoken for the next 9 hours +1 (to a maximum of +5) for each day they stayed awake. Whad'ya think?
Kalender 12-03-04, 03:57 AM	This is my little (I hope constructive) criticism. I think you're being a bit too harsh on the rules about rest. I only sleep 5-6 hours a day and work all day quite ok. In fact, when I rest more (say, 8 hours) I wake up very tired and sleepy. Also, I can stay awake for 20 hours just fine. More than that and I begin to feel drowsy, though. I'd rise the time to become fatigued to about 20-24 hours (hey, they're supposed to be heroes, huh? I'm quite a normal guy), and exhausted to about 32-48 hours. It also varies with the level of activity. Adrenaline can be a great boost to fight sleep. I've spent two whole days in a row being only slightly fatigued... as long as I was doing something, dancing, walking, playing, having fun... (to succumb to sleep once the degree of activity decreased). A final idea... once you begin applying penalties... have you thought about dexterity? because I'd say it's the first stat to drop. (Well, that and wisdom). I can count perfectly, but I couldn't react quickly if, say, someone threw a ball to me. (Although that would awake me, and I'd probably react to a second one quite better.) Ok, just my 2c! see ya!
Klaus van der Kroft 12-03-04, 09:24 AM	I think that your idea is quite good indeed. And the points made by Kalender are worthy of taking note too. But let me also add a bit. I think that the amount of time you can remain sleepless should depend on your Constitution score. After all, the effects of sleep deprivation act because your body has had no time to recover fully, and that should be reflected on your Constitution. You could make it so a character needs sleep every X amount of hours, where X is three times his/her Constitution score. If the character remains sleepless after that time has passed, he/she becomes Fatigued. A Fatigued character should have a penalty to Dexterity, since the body us not "awake enough", and it tends to become clumsy. When Fatigued, the character must make the Fortitude check (DC 10 +1 for each check) every hour. If the character fails the check, he becomes Exhausted, recieving further penalties to Dexterity, as well as Wisdom (I am not very sure if Intelligence should have any penalty) every passing hour, until reaching 0. The character becomes automatically Exhausted if it remains asleep a number of hours equal to 4 times it's Constitution score (so a typical human with CON 10 would last a bit more than two full days awake, something most of us can do while still functioning relatively well). Once the character reaches 0 Dexterity, it's body stops moving and it falls motionless (Paralysed) to the ground, while reaching Wisdom of 0 means unconciousness. In order to recover the lost points, the character must sleep one hour for each lost point. After falling unconcious, the character must sleep at least one full hour (and thus recovering one point of Dex and Wis) before being able to wake up at all. The system you propose also opens the way for many different things, such as special spells, potions, armor effects, etc. Here are some ideas: Potion of Sleepness: Upon being ingested, this potion infuses the character with additional energy. Characters under the effect of this potion may remain unfatigued for an amount of hours equal to 4 times their Constitution score, and unexhausted up to 6 times their Constitution score. Furthermore, they recieve a +4 bonus to checks for surpassing the Fortitude save DC to avoid becoming Exhausted. The effect of this potion last until the character falls asleep or unconcious.
77IM 12-03-04, 10:58 PM	These are all good rules, but this isn't really the right forum for this sort of discussion. Sadly, with the recent board re-org, I'm not sure what the correct board is -- there doesn't seem to be one for "rules general." -- 77IM :P
His Majesty 12-04-04, 05:01 AM	This should be in the Unearthed Arcana and house rules forum. Anyway, I don't think that Wisdom should be penalized at the early stages of fatigue. I usually see better at certain times in the night, and I've often noticed that my creative juices start flowing fervently at 3 am. I have trouble writing as fast as I think, but that's Intelligence, not Wisdom...
WizO_Sith 12-05-04, 04:43 PM	Moved to the UA/House Rule Forum. Bamf