Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dungeonrenter 08-06-07, 10:59 AM	So, after playing a while with recharge magic, the one problem my group is finding is that its making many other classes superflous. A wizard can cast knock every time the door is locked etc. So while combat is turning out to be not a problem, the group is getting a little dispointed in the non combat effectivness of casters. So, we thought about using the spell point system because pretty much everybody agrees that fire and forget is to frustrating to play. However, all the casters got really frustrated at the increased cost to make damage spells work. Also none of them were a terribly big fan of the book keeping involved. Atter talking it over we sort of hashed out a compromise. I was just looking for some input on this. Memorization: Casters that can memorize spells need only memorize one copy of each spell. A spell is not forgotten once cast. Casters can memorize the same number of spells as per standard the normal memorization rules. Casting Spells: All casters become somewhat spontaneous casters. They can cast any known or memorized spell. The limitation is that casters can only cast the same number of spells per day as per the basic rules. Thus everybody becomes sort of a spontaneous caster, the memorized spells form a "slate" of abilties that can be used as the caster desires. Other modifications: The other modifications we made are that all meta magics are treated as sudden meta magics instead and that every time a spell caster gains a new spell level they can take a reserve feat or a divine feat. Possible change: Memorization is done as per "prepped" spells from the world of warcraft rpg. Basically a caster gets 2*casting stat modifier+1+ (1 per 4 ranks in spellcraft) spells memorized per spell level. Here is my analysis of these changes: Benefits: Memorization based casters are more fun to play at low levels. The additonal flexibility of casters makes them easier to be played by newer players. Additonally the reserve feats help mid level casters by giving them abilties that are effective in fights where it would be a waist to use thier more significant spells. It doesn't affect pre published adventures at all because players are allowed no MORE spells than they were before. A foe who had 3 of a single spell memorized probably has that memorized because its useful in combat. The flexibility that the players have the bad guys have as well without needing to change much of anything. The reserve feats while useful for the players are probably not something that most enemies of the palyers will spend much time using anyway. The players slated enemey casters are expected to blow all their magical prowess fighting the players, so their lack of reserve feats is invisible to play. Problems: The big problem was what this does to spontaneous casters. Basically they become totally worthless. The problem we ran into was that everything we could think of doing to make the magic system more enjoyable for memorization based casters came at the cost of making the sorceror worthless. So, what do you think? Also can anybody think of what could be done to spontaneous casters to make them playable again under this system? Maybe give them some way of learning a small number of spells?
Naderion 08-06-07, 02:15 PM	That's practically the system I use, except that I also use spell points and not spell slots. I think this has one minor fault, that should be taken into account: As a wizard or druid, you will sometimes come to a point, were you still have spells prepared, but they are all completely useless in the current situation, so that you are effectively out of spells. This doesn't ocure with the system, so I would make the slight chance, that the number of spells per day should be somewhat reduced, maybe to 80%. This will have the result, that one can cast about as much spells in combat as one would with the standard-system and not more. But spontaneous casters do still have their advantages, most prominently more spells per day. Another improvement could be to raise their maximum numbers of spells known, so that they actually have a broader choice of spells than preparing casters have for that given day.
Dungeonrenter 08-06-07, 04:03 PM	One thing I have thought about doing is using the "spells preparred by level" from the world of warcraft rpg. In that system all spell casters get something pretty close to (2 * casting stat mod) + (spellcraft ranks /4) +1 spells "prepared" per day. Then all casters are effectively spontaneous casters. They didn't reduce the number of spells player had per day at all. I have been considering doing this. I would find some similar fomula that would generate the number of TOTAL spells a sorceror could know per level and the "spells known" from the phb would be what the sorceror gets for free. Any spell beyond that out to the formula maximum would have to be learned like a wizard learns spells.
Skeral 08-06-07, 07:30 PM	I was thinking about using something like this in my next campaign, primarily because it is much more flexible, and my group much prefers that. I might just use what you posted here because it looks very like what I was going to do. I disagree that sorcerers will no longer be useful, because they still have more spells per day.
Rhialto 08-07-07, 07:18 AM	Except for using mana, and the exact formula for number of spells memorised being different, that is my system you just described.
pauln6 08-08-07, 10:06 AM	I think I've seen the notion that an alternative spell system would allow spellcasters access to a few minor abilities as skills (like detect magic, read magic, and a basic magical missile akin to an arrow - perhaps akin to Shadowcasters' Arrow of Dusk - presumably they would get to choose an energy type at level 1). Their big spells or spells that 'steal' other class's abilities (knock, find traps etc) should still be restricted. I don't think that unlimited acces to level 0 spells would hurt and if the magical missile requires a ranged touch attack, that wouldn't be unbalancing.
Dungeonrenter 08-08-07, 10:35 AM	Pauln6, The thing about the reseve feats is that they sort of do that. I have encourgaged my players to come up with more. Basically anything can be used as a trigger for those reserve feats. By giving spell casters one reserve feat per spell level, they feel like they have acces to that very "minor magic" your talking about. At the same time the games spells don't need any real change and ther enchanced effectiveness makes them seem a little more special. Thats why I choose to give the reserve feats.
pauln6 08-08-07, 11:17 AM	Hmm - I don't know enough about reserve feats as I don't have that rule book. You could restrict memorised casters by making them fatigued if they spontaneously cast a spell they've already cast. Metamagic feats definitely should not be spontaneous though. Spontaneous casters could be allowed to know one additional spell per spell level as a balance.