Solo Gestalt CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Solo Gestalt CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sucineri
11-01-04, 05:44 PM I am DMing a game for my friend..he is playing a gestalt wizard1/rogue1.

NORMALLY in a group of 4 level 1 characters they can take a CR1 encounter. Solo they can take a CR1/4 encounter.

But with Gestalt I am a little confused..a gestalt character is NOT as strong as 2 characters of the same level. Hell, a gestalt character can probably be taken out by 2 normal characters of the same level, so a CR for a gestalt character shouldn't be CR1/2 (like 2 normals can take).

Should I make a gestalt level 1 encounter be CR 1/3 maybe? They are slightly stronger than normal characters..but they are definately not twice as strong.

But then I have a DMPC that will be joining next session probably..but still, two gestalt characters aren't as strong as 4 normal characters..so they can't take on a CR1 encounter equally as well.

I am all sorts of confused. :P
Morwen
11-01-04, 07:49 PM If the Wizard/Rogue is the only character in the group, then most monstrous encounters that don't go down on one Magic Missile or Sneak Attack will be too tough.. I think you might want to give him/her the aid of someone who can fight a little better in melee, or you could take it as an opportunity to have a campaign with little-to-no fighting and all sneaking around and roleplaying :)
Sucineri
11-01-04, 10:42 PM Well, the player is gestalt wizard/rogue with a lizard familiar, and my dmpc is gonna be (haven't brought him in yet) a gestalt barbarian/druid(with the altered version from UA..taking away wildshaping) with a badger (dire when possible for mount) companion.

For him I am planning more of a sneaky campaign..no big melee fights or anything right away.
Morwen
11-02-04, 01:35 AM That should work out pretty well then.. They should be able to handle CR1 encounters, if they play their characters well. You should go by the trial and error method regarding encounter difficulty, I suppose.
Sucineri
11-02-04, 03:09 AM Well, so far the only REAL encounter that happened was against a small ambush group of rogues from a really bad thieves guild named the "Bloomin Onion' (Basically the equivalent of team rocket from pokemon..they aren't good at what they do, but they think they are experts).

They were waiting for their lackey to get the PC to chase him around a corner, but he caught the guy and got the secret ambush revealed to him so he ended up going into an alley across the street from the alley they were planted in..the thieves were 2 humans and a dwarf. AND they also had an ogre with them (who joined because he was kicked out of his clan for not doing the ogre thing well enough), and they were all hiding under garbage.

The PC beat the encounter by casting silent image that looked like a 12 headed hydra coming around the corner..I extended the spell a little bit by letting it move a little bit out of it's range (by like 5 feet, sue me)..caused the thieves to freak out and get away..everyone on the busy street to panic and run screaming in every direction..some of the town guards to charge at the beast and knock themselves out by running straight into a wall on the other side of the image..and the ogre was trapped and failed the will save so bad he went into a fetal position and started crying. :lol:

Afterwards when the halfling rogue (who the PC captured) and the PC were busy rolling on the floor laughing at the ogre (that was in the alley across the street from their alley) the ogre got up and came over to intimidate the PC and the ogre rolled badly and made the halfling laugh even louder and the PC's dwarf to just look up at the ogre without any kind of effect it made the ogre start pouting..that's where it ended.

Tomorrow morning my friend is coming back over and we will continue. :P

I BELIEVE getting the thieves and ogre to completely abandon their plans works as a victory, so the PC beat 3 level 1 rogues, and an Ogre in one shot. :P
HailSpork
11-04-04, 04:49 PM Actually, a rogue/wizard could be very effective in a straight solo-play, even without the dmpc. He would have trouble doing straight up fights, but you could set up encounters so he has the option of dividing the group (preferably with ghost sound or minor image) and making use of sneak attack.
Of course, it would be helpful to have that dmpc when he misses or is spotted.
Sucineri
11-04-04, 09:36 PM He is actually doing REALLY well so far just being solo..then again I am rolling really horribly at the same time (in the open, so I am not fudging rolls for his benefit), he seems to get the idea of strategy a lot more than even a lot of 'veteran' players of the game, heh.
Morwen
11-05-04, 08:28 AM He is actually doing REALLY well so far just being solo..then again I am rolling really horribly at the same time (in the open, so I am not fudging rolls for his benefit), he seems to get the idea of strategy a lot more than even a lot of 'veteran' players of the game, heh.
Sounds great :) Seems like you're both having fun, which is what matters the most :)
Sucineri
11-05-04, 06:33 PM He is really good at strategizing..he is on a merchant ship sailing to another port like 250 miles away and passed close to the Pirate Isles (FR) and was assailed by a pirate ship with..18 level 1 fighters or rogues, the leader who is a fighter/rogue/swashbuckler, and his first mate who was a level 5 TWF fighter.

Friend WAS close to level 3 at the time as well just so you know..and I am not mentioning slaves or non-combatants.

Anyway..merchant ship had 10 level 1 fighters as guards..and on the front of the ship was a single ballista (just incase of attack).

Now MOST new people or even some experienced people with low level characters might go for magic missiles, and longbows and stuff and TRY to hit the guys in the pirate ship (which is like 150 feet away)..or they would wait for their ship to be boarded to start fighting. But NOOOO..my friend took advantage of the ballista when the other ship got within range (120 feet) and hit it and didn't do a ton of damage to it (since I guessed the hardness was 10 since I couldn't find object hardness for the life of me for some reason)..and he saw it wasn't doing much..so then he re-aimed the ballista and got someone else to crank it and fire..and he timed it so that when the giant bolt hit the pirate ship he would cast silent image (he seems to really like that spell! :P) and made it look as if that bolt caught most of the pirate ship on fire..the 18 level 1 fighters and rogues ALL failed their saves badly (alas, more crappy rolling in the open) and what happens to pirates when their ship catches fire? They jump overboard.

So now all that's left is the pirate leader and his first mate..and half their slaves (since half of them also jumped overboard)..so now with nobody really left to steer the pirate ship or slow it down, my friend gets his steering guy to turn the boat in a way so that an impact will have the least amount of affect..OTHER than get pretty much everyone from both ships to fall over (again..bad rolls on balance checks). The first mate does the piraty thing of swinging over to the other side..and since the ships were sitting next to eachother with about 10 feet between their decks the pirate leader tries to fire a crossbow at my friend but rolls a 1 and then confirms a crit failure and his crossbow goes flying to pieces..then he decides to be awesome and do a running jump from his ship to the other (I know I could do it) and I roll a 2..and his armor gives him atleast a -2 so he trips himself on his own deck's railing while he jumps which throws him off balance and he goes sailing over the gap but not far enough and clips his forhead on the merchant ships railing and falls into the water.

So now 18 lowly pirates have jumped into the choppy ocean water, the pirate LEADER screws up on jumping over and is in the water..and now a level 5 fighter is surrounded by 10 level 1 fighters. He used TWF and kills 3 of the guards then they attack and deal about 12 damage to him, then my friend shoots him with a magic missile and does 2 damage..then the fighter goes..kills 2 more of the guards and my friend runs at the guy with his morning start and does 5 damage on the fighter's helmet which annoyed him more than anything. Then I roll to attack my friend with the fighter and he rolls a 20, so I am saying "sorry man..might need to roll a new character" and then I roll a 3..so it is normal damage and I do 5 damage to my friend (who has 18 total)..and then the fighter misses 2 more times. Guards go and deal 13 damage (1 crit) and then it is friend's turn and he hits for 2 damage..then the fighter tries again and misses 3 times in a row and it really ****** off. So guards go and do 9 more damage and he seems to be out of it..then my friend nails him in the face with a crit and does 15 damage and kills him.

So if my math is right then he 'beat' basically around a CR 8 with his strategy and bad rolls. And he leveled up twice from that (since he was close to level 3 to begin with).

I am thinking possibly of having some kind of aquatic animal show up too since there are so many food-items (level 1 people) floating around..he will also probably throw a line to the leader who fell into the water and try to turn him from the dark side and take his stuff. :P

Atleast that balanced out pretty much why he had around 3k gold at level 2. He still doesn't have any magic items on him..just masterwork.

This guy is SO not a fireballing/magicmissiling freak like so many other people, heh.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sucineri 11-01-04, 05:44 PM	I am DMing a game for my friend..he is playing a gestalt wizard1/rogue1. NORMALLY in a group of 4 level 1 characters they can take a CR1 encounter. Solo they can take a CR1/4 encounter. But with Gestalt I am a little confused..a gestalt character is NOT as strong as 2 characters of the same level. Hell, a gestalt character can probably be taken out by 2 normal characters of the same level, so a CR for a gestalt character shouldn't be CR1/2 (like 2 normals can take). Should I make a gestalt level 1 encounter be CR 1/3 maybe? They are slightly stronger than normal characters..but they are definately not twice as strong. But then I have a DMPC that will be joining next session probably..but still, two gestalt characters aren't as strong as 4 normal characters..so they can't take on a CR1 encounter equally as well. I am all sorts of confused. :P
Morwen 11-01-04, 07:49 PM	If the Wizard/Rogue is the only character in the group, then most monstrous encounters that don't go down on one Magic Missile or Sneak Attack will be too tough.. I think you might want to give him/her the aid of someone who can fight a little better in melee, or you could take it as an opportunity to have a campaign with little-to-no fighting and all sneaking around and roleplaying :)
Sucineri 11-01-04, 10:42 PM	Well, the player is gestalt wizard/rogue with a lizard familiar, and my dmpc is gonna be (haven't brought him in yet) a gestalt barbarian/druid(with the altered version from UA..taking away wildshaping) with a badger (dire when possible for mount) companion. For him I am planning more of a sneaky campaign..no big melee fights or anything right away.
Morwen 11-02-04, 01:35 AM	That should work out pretty well then.. They should be able to handle CR1 encounters, if they play their characters well. You should go by the trial and error method regarding encounter difficulty, I suppose.
Sucineri 11-02-04, 03:09 AM	Well, so far the only REAL encounter that happened was against a small ambush group of rogues from a really bad thieves guild named the "Bloomin Onion' (Basically the equivalent of team rocket from pokemon..they aren't good at what they do, but they think they are experts). They were waiting for their lackey to get the PC to chase him around a corner, but he caught the guy and got the secret ambush revealed to him so he ended up going into an alley across the street from the alley they were planted in..the thieves were 2 humans and a dwarf. AND they also had an ogre with them (who joined because he was kicked out of his clan for not doing the ogre thing well enough), and they were all hiding under garbage. The PC beat the encounter by casting silent image that looked like a 12 headed hydra coming around the corner..I extended the spell a little bit by letting it move a little bit out of it's range (by like 5 feet, sue me)..caused the thieves to freak out and get away..everyone on the busy street to panic and run screaming in every direction..some of the town guards to charge at the beast and knock themselves out by running straight into a wall on the other side of the image..and the ogre was trapped and failed the will save so bad he went into a fetal position and started crying. :lol: Afterwards when the halfling rogue (who the PC captured) and the PC were busy rolling on the floor laughing at the ogre (that was in the alley across the street from their alley) the ogre got up and came over to intimidate the PC and the ogre rolled badly and made the halfling laugh even louder and the PC's dwarf to just look up at the ogre without any kind of effect it made the ogre start pouting..that's where it ended. Tomorrow morning my friend is coming back over and we will continue. :P I BELIEVE getting the thieves and ogre to completely abandon their plans works as a victory, so the PC beat 3 level 1 rogues, and an Ogre in one shot. :P
HailSpork 11-04-04, 04:49 PM	Actually, a rogue/wizard could be very effective in a straight solo-play, even without the dmpc. He would have trouble doing straight up fights, but you could set up encounters so he has the option of dividing the group (preferably with ghost sound or minor image) and making use of sneak attack. Of course, it would be helpful to have that dmpc when he misses or is spotted.
Sucineri 11-04-04, 09:36 PM	He is actually doing REALLY well so far just being solo..then again I am rolling really horribly at the same time (in the open, so I am not fudging rolls for his benefit), he seems to get the idea of strategy a lot more than even a lot of 'veteran' players of the game, heh.
Morwen 11-05-04, 08:28 AM	He is actually doing REALLY well so far just being solo..then again I am rolling really horribly at the same time (in the open, so I am not fudging rolls for his benefit), he seems to get the idea of strategy a lot more than even a lot of 'veteran' players of the game, heh. Sounds great :) Seems like you're both having fun, which is what matters the most :)
Sucineri 11-05-04, 06:33 PM	He is really good at strategizing..he is on a merchant ship sailing to another port like 250 miles away and passed close to the Pirate Isles (FR) and was assailed by a pirate ship with..18 level 1 fighters or rogues, the leader who is a fighter/rogue/swashbuckler, and his first mate who was a level 5 TWF fighter. Friend WAS close to level 3 at the time as well just so you know..and I am not mentioning slaves or non-combatants. Anyway..merchant ship had 10 level 1 fighters as guards..and on the front of the ship was a single ballista (just incase of attack). Now MOST new people or even some experienced people with low level characters might go for magic missiles, and longbows and stuff and TRY to hit the guys in the pirate ship (which is like 150 feet away)..or they would wait for their ship to be boarded to start fighting. But NOOOO..my friend took advantage of the ballista when the other ship got within range (120 feet) and hit it and didn't do a ton of damage to it (since I guessed the hardness was 10 since I couldn't find object hardness for the life of me for some reason)..and he saw it wasn't doing much..so then he re-aimed the ballista and got someone else to crank it and fire..and he timed it so that when the giant bolt hit the pirate ship he would cast silent image (he seems to really like that spell! :P) and made it look as if that bolt caught most of the pirate ship on fire..the 18 level 1 fighters and rogues ALL failed their saves badly (alas, more crappy rolling in the open) and what happens to pirates when their ship catches fire? They jump overboard. So now all that's left is the pirate leader and his first mate..and half their slaves (since half of them also jumped overboard)..so now with nobody really left to steer the pirate ship or slow it down, my friend gets his steering guy to turn the boat in a way so that an impact will have the least amount of affect..OTHER than get pretty much everyone from both ships to fall over (again..bad rolls on balance checks). The first mate does the piraty thing of swinging over to the other side..and since the ships were sitting next to eachother with about 10 feet between their decks the pirate leader tries to fire a crossbow at my friend but rolls a 1 and then confirms a crit failure and his crossbow goes flying to pieces..then he decides to be awesome and do a running jump from his ship to the other (I know I could do it) and I roll a 2..and his armor gives him atleast a -2 so he trips himself on his own deck's railing while he jumps which throws him off balance and he goes sailing over the gap but not far enough and clips his forhead on the merchant ships railing and falls into the water. So now 18 lowly pirates have jumped into the choppy ocean water, the pirate LEADER screws up on jumping over and is in the water..and now a level 5 fighter is surrounded by 10 level 1 fighters. He used TWF and kills 3 of the guards then they attack and deal about 12 damage to him, then my friend shoots him with a magic missile and does 2 damage..then the fighter goes..kills 2 more of the guards and my friend runs at the guy with his morning start and does 5 damage on the fighter's helmet which annoyed him more than anything. Then I roll to attack my friend with the fighter and he rolls a 20, so I am saying "sorry man..might need to roll a new character" and then I roll a 3..so it is normal damage and I do 5 damage to my friend (who has 18 total)..and then the fighter misses 2 more times. Guards go and deal 13 damage (1 crit) and then it is friend's turn and he hits for 2 damage..then the fighter tries again and misses 3 times in a row and it really ****** off. So guards go and do 9 more damage and he seems to be out of it..then my friend nails him in the face with a crit and does 15 damage and kills him. So if my math is right then he 'beat' basically around a CR 8 with his strategy and bad rolls. And he leveled up twice from that (since he was close to level 3 to begin with). I am thinking possibly of having some kind of aquatic animal show up too since there are so many food-items (level 1 people) floating around..he will also probably throw a line to the leader who fell into the water and try to turn him from the dark side and take his stuff. :P Atleast that balanced out pretty much why he had around 3k gold at level 2. He still doesn't have any magic items on him..just masterwork. This guy is SO not a fireballing/magicmissiling freak like so many other people, heh.