Some new ways to roll up characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Some new ways to roll up characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rkr1970
10-08-05, 02:04 AM I have seen so many new and different ways to roll up characters at local games that I thought I would share a couple.

The first is a frustrating method for players, but it's very well balanced. Players roll the 4d6 drop low method to get 12 numbers. They then pair up the best and worst, second best & second worst, etc. A set of stats might look like this when all paired up---

18 - 8
17 - 10
15 - 10
14 - 11
14 - 12
13 - 13

You then get to pick 3 pairs for your character. That means you can only take the best score if you take the worst. A harsh but fair system. Probably why a lot of players don't like it.

The other system I've seen, and started using in my games, is just as frustrating for players, but for a completly different reason. You have them roll 24d6, rerolling if there are more than six 1's or there are more 1's, 2's, and 3's total than 4's, 5's & 6's total. Once the player has a useable roll, they may take any 3 dice and apply them to any ability. Then, they take any 3 remaining dice and put them towards another ability. Repeat until all 6 are filled and there are 6 dice left over. Sounds like a nice setup, eh? Imagine getting only four 6's and four 5's, five 4's, three 3's six 2's and two 1's.

Do you take 18,16,14 for the best 3, or 17,17,14, or even 17,16,16? What about 18, 15, 15?
For the low 3 you could try 12, 10, 7 or 11, 9, 9, or maybe 10, 10, 9?
Is 18, 16, 13, 10, 10, 10 a set you can use?

As you can see, it doesn't matter how you play with the numbers, unless the player had about eight 6's, they're going to feel like they can't quite get the numbers they want. But they can almost always get the numbers they need for a character with good bonuses in their most important attributes.

I'm always on the lookout for better ways to generate characters that players accept as being fair. If you know of a new, BALANCED way to come up with stats, please let me know.
FlameLover
10-08-05, 02:11 AM I just make players use the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). That way they get good enough stats to play there character well but you don't get any 20+ stat cheese.
rkr1970
10-08-05, 02:15 AM Even as a DM I don't like the elite array. Feels too artificial. No individuality. And the numbers just don't make you feel like your character is destined for greatness.
FlameLover
10-08-05, 02:24 AM What do you mean no individuality? I mean you can place them how you want and add in the different racial adjustments.. theres plenty of individuality i think. And my group likes playing more "realistic" heroes, atleast to begin with. But every group is different (like i don't like how you roll scores since you get 17s easy, etc.)
Telis_the_Deadeye
10-08-05, 12:55 PM (like i don't like how you roll scores since you get 17s easy, etc.)

How can you not see how he's doing his rolls? It's the whole point of this thread!

RKR, you could give players 3 of each number 1-6 and let them move them around like in your example. Then everyone gets the same potential.
Koga:The ninja trick
10-08-05, 02:08 PM How about this, you roll 5d6 and depending on the die roll of each dice, dictates a stat number. This will insure few stats under 8, and fewer stats over 20.

D6
1-8
2-10
3-12
4-14
5-16
6-18
DmMagnus
10-08-05, 07:07 PM is to roll the standart PHB way twice. and pick the best set. Some wil get better characters than others, But it is like that in the real world to. We are all good at something, but somebody is good at almost everything.
RaspK FOG
10-09-05, 04:22 AM For my conversion of Masque of the Red Death (a generally low-PC-power setting), I either allow one to use a modified point-buy system (which starts at 5 and goes up to 16) or allow the player to roll 4d12, keep second highest and add it to 4; both seem to work beautifully so far on the playtesting.
lostone
10-09-05, 08:13 AM I prefer point-buy straight out of the DMG. We typically go with the 32 points. It allows players to focus on one or two great stats or even things out as needed. Plus it is more fun to watch the players agonize over the placement of every point than it is to watch them roll dice for stats. Besides, I'm pretty sure at least one player fudges there stat rolls if not watched like a hawk. :rolleyes: No one is that lucky. :D
OzyBurrfoot
10-09-05, 12:58 PM In our games we've started using a new method that gives a spread between 8 and 18, that we're quite comfortable with. It does tend to give a higher average then most rolling systems, but it hasnt bothered us so far. We tend to prefer characters with higher stats. Plus we have a couple people in our group who consistently rolls stats

Roll 3d6, six times and add the two best to a base score of 6 in each ability. Occasionally the DM has us reroll any ones, but thats for more "epic" feeling games. (mind you thats a lower case "e" to differentiate from true Epic (lvl 20+) games.)
Eliza_Stormwhisper
10-09-05, 10:48 PM I typically use 28 point buy myself, but 2d6+6 six times and arranged as desired is a pretty interesting one, I think.
Arcade
10-10-05, 07:50 AM I have 2 general methods.

1) Do the typical 4d6 distribution. At the end, roll one extra dice and use it to replace any one other dice. This will let a character who rolled 2 low rolls for the same stat (like 4,3,1,1 or 6,6,2,1) have a chance at making their score that much better. It gives the players a sense of being able to control their character stats a little more.

2) The other system I use is to make them roll their stats with normal 4d6, but they are allowed to take stats however they wish, not just with the 3 highest. Then I let them point buy up to 28 points. So characters can take high dice rolls to get great stats, or they can take the lower rolls and customize a little more. It's customization versus high stats.
RaspK FOG
10-10-05, 09:50 AM 2d6 + 6 seems a fine way to go by all means.
Orion959
10-10-05, 10:28 AM The system I use with my girlfriend's kids, who have just started playing D&D this year (ages 8 and 10) is as follows:

18
1d4 + 14
1d6 + 12
1d8 + 10
1d10 + 8
1d12 +6

They seem to end up with above average scores in most abilities, which is good for them since I am having a hell of a time making them understand that stats aren't the end-all be-all of the game. But, they're kids, so it's pretty rough.

They like this system, I have never used it in any other games I run, and probably wouldn't.

Cheers!
Millennium
10-14-05, 11:06 AM The problem I have with the elite array is that it encourages using race as a min-maxing factor. Min-maxing stats is bad enough as it is.

What I do is this. The basis starts with six rolls of 3d6, but with a twist: any die you dislike can be rerolled at a -X penalty, where X is the number of times you've already rolled that die. Anything less than 1 is adjusted to 1, and you can reroll as many times as you want (though it's pointless once you hit -5).

EXAMPLE: Alice rolls 3d6 and comes up with 6-6-1. She feels she can do better than this, so she rolls the die which came up 1 at a -1 penalty. She rolls a 1 again, which is effectively still 1. She rolls again at -2 and gets a 4, which is now effectively 2. She could roll again at -3, but the only way to do better than a 2 in that case would be to roll a 6, so she laments her bad luck and accepts the roll. The final score is 6-6-2, or 14.

This gives characters a chance to bump up poor rolls without guaranteeing uber scores. An unlucky roller can still get stuck with a low score -and believe me, I've seen it happen- but the players appreciate having the chance to do better.
Jaxgaret
10-14-05, 07:59 PM I actually thought of an interesting rolling method that would give characters' ability scores more of a random, personal feel - the typical 'roll 4d6 reroll 1s and drop the lowest roll' guarantees that all of your scores will be between 6 and 18, and most rolls between 10 and 16.

My method is thus: roll one of each: d2 d4 d6 d8 d10 d12, drop the two lowest and the highest. If a player gets REALLY lucky or unlucky with their rolls, the highest roll can be a 24, and the lowest a 3. But the average roll is just about the same as the abovementioned method. And it's more fun (and exciting!) to roll a bunch of different dice. It's a gamble every time. You can also try rolling d4 d6 d8 d10 d12 drop the lowest and highest rolls, seven times, and drop the lowest total roll.

If you normally do '4d6 and drop lowest roll', then d4 d6 d8 d10 d12 and drop lowest and highest roll is about the same average.

This is not as complicated as I am making it sound, at all! It's actually easier than the basic rolling system.

For something simpler along the same lines, roll two d10s and reroll all ones. Or roll two d12s.
Thelon Fairblade
10-17-05, 10:01 AM IMC, we do this: Roll 4d6-drop-lowest as normal. If the total of your 6 stats is not at least 72, you can roll again or simply do a 30-pt-buy. Among my 4 players, I actually had 1 choose not to roll at all and just go with the 30-pt-buy right off the bat. The other 3 rolled; one kept his initial roll, the other two had to roll again, and both lucked out with reasonably good rolls the second time.

In the previous campaign, I imposed a balance rule on rolling: if you get lucky enough to have an "18", your next roll (or a random roll, if that was your sixth) is automatically an "8" -- for every heroic attribute, there is a flaw. It was interesting to see people excited about 16s and 17s, and bummed at an 18!

However, I will also point out that IMC, I allow feats to be spent for +1 to attributes. At 4th level, the human barbarian2/fighter2 only has 2 combat feats, having taken "STR Training" (17 to 18), "DEX training" (13 to 14), and "CHA training" (7 to 8) as her other feats. Hasn't caused a problem so far -- neither spellcaster (cleric "archer" and a battlesorcerer) has invested feats in increasing their spellcasting stats, for example.
Jaxgaret
10-18-05, 01:11 AM However, I will also point out that IMC, I allow feats to be spent for +1 to attributes. At 4th level, the human barbarian2/fighter2 only has 2 combat feats, having taken "STR Training" (17 to 18), "DEX training" (13 to 14), and "CHA training" (7 to 8) as her other feats. Hasn't caused a problem so far -- neither spellcaster (cleric "archer" and a battlesorcerer) has invested feats in increasing their spellcasting stats, for example.

Whoa. So Fighters can just go STR/DEX/CON training with all their bonus feats? Or is there some kind of limitation.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-18-05, 01:15 AM 96 point buy. I swear by it.
Thelon Fairblade
10-18-05, 10:10 AM Jaxgaret: the limitation is that Attribute Training is a [General] feat, not on the "fighter bonus feat". No +17 STR for the fighter (but +6 is possible).

The fear (stated by tarkin) is that a spellcaster will, across his 20 levels, take +6 to his casting stat (in addition to the normal +5 from level-up), getting another +3 on his save DCs. My answer is "sure, but he doesn't pick up empower spell, or improved familiar, or spell focus, or item crafting, or Fell Drain, or whatever. just stronger spells with no specials.

So far, as I said, it has worked out okay.
Jaxgaret
10-18-05, 11:51 AM Jaxgaret: the limitation is that Attribute Training is a [General] feat, not on the "fighter bonus feat". No +17 STR for the fighter (but +6 is possible).

The fear (stated by tarkin) is that a spellcaster will, across his 20 levels, take +6 to his casting stat (in addition to the normal +5 from level-up), getting another +3 on his save DCs. My answer is "sure, but he doesn't pick up empower spell, or improved familiar, or spell focus, or item crafting, or Fell Drain, or whatever. just stronger spells with no specials.

So far, as I said, it has worked out okay.

Gotcha. I misread your post!

It's actually a max of +7 to stats, or +8 for a human (seven feats is normal progression over twenty levels), not including ability bonuses every 4th level. So, total plusses for a character can be +13 (+8 for human adds, +5 for ability adds). Mmm 31 base stat...

+5 inherent bonus and +6 magical item bonus = 42 caster stat. tasty.
Darrett
10-18-05, 12:52 PM I use either 4d6 and drop lowest, or 3d6.

Place your rolls where you want them, generally. 18s are extremely rare, especially when I use the 3d6 method. More realistic characters that way.
Stev Beren
10-18-05, 12:56 PM 5d4 - 2 six times, and supply a number of 'point buy' points depending on what you want the stats to end up being towards.

SStill provides the standard range, tends to cluster towards the middle, but allows players to have some extraordinary stats.
NexusX
10-18-05, 03:06 PM Wow, I knew there were a lot of systems out there, and I've used a fair number of different ones. We used to enjoy giving out a point pool, allowing players to roll to figure out what percentage of the total pool they get to play with - then they can dish out the points as they like. Unfortunately, as you can imagine, that meant they always got at least 1 18.

Here's the one my players seem to like best (forgive me if someone else posted this - I might have missed it).

Roll 7 sets of 4d6 (keep 3 on each set). Then drop the lowest set so you end up with only 6 numbers.

Cheers,
NexusX
super*rare
11-08-05, 02:11 AM roll 4D6 of one color die and one of another color.
add the 3 highest.if the fourth die is a "1" add that,too (max. 18)
if the one color die is a 5 or 6, add all four dice. (max 18)
both effects can occur at the same time.
because no "ones" likes to roll ones. :)
Jerks
11-08-05, 08:12 AM Max Customize

Roll 24d6, drop the lowest six dice. Place in sets of three to get your six ability scores. This allows for a bit more flexibility than the standard rules. We used it for a while, switched to 4d6, reroll 1's once, and arrange to taste. My players prefer the chance to rolling higher all around instead of the ability to customize...go figure.
Meatboy
11-08-05, 09:58 AM In my latest trist with the worlds of dnd I had my players roll 7 sets of 3d6 drop the lowest set and they could reroll again if they wished. This led the players to end up with slightly less powerful characters than the standard 4d6 and slightly more powerful than a simple 3d6. It worked great for my low magic campaign.
2y1y1z2
11-08-05, 10:06 AM My campaigns are brutal so I let my players either take the standard set (18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 14) I use for all my monsters, or roll 5d6 and drop the lowest two to see if they can get something better.
Otherguy
11-08-05, 06:04 PM I've played a few games in my day. We tend to run power campaigns where I'm from, so we've used our standard system which is 4d6 drop lowest six times and THEN drop the lowest and make it an 18 assuming you don't have one, or we've used 4d6 six times and, on one score, you don't drop the lowest and instead keep all four. It's not that unbalanced.
Tobus Neth
11-10-05, 04:53 AM 1d6=Daddy
1d6=Mommy
1d6= Your character
lostone
11-10-05, 07:13 AM 1d6=Daddy
1d6=Mommy
1d6= Your character :confused: :thinks:
Rogal Dorn
11-12-05, 10:27 AM i have always used the 32 point buy system, but recently my players have complained about their characters not being heroic enough. as a friendly dm i let roll with 4d4+4. it�s a bit uber, but it makes players really happy and gives them a decent chance of survival against potentially deadly crits (wound points) and arcane corruption. ;)
Koga:The ninja trick
11-12-05, 06:51 PM 8+1d12 is one to consider..

But that 2d6+6 was a pretty good idea..
The Hive Custodian
11-12-05, 11:25 PM An interesting series is Xd6, double highest drop X - 2 lowest. So, 2d6 double highest, 3d6 double highest and drop lowest, 4d6 double highest and drop two lowest, and so on. More unpredictable than the standard Xd6 drop X - 3 lowest.

As a statistical note, if the general population uses 3d6 for stats, the average (mean) 4d6 drop lowest character has a higher ability score total than over 90% of the population. The average 5d6 drop two lowest character is at about the 99th percentile. The 18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 14 array mentioned earlier totals 98; that's about one in 4 million.
LiamDeclan
11-13-05, 12:25 AM we use the 4d6 six times and reroll any 1's and 2's.
There was one time a party member died and the DM said go ahead and make a new character. The player who was needing a new one had to go to the restroom (bad chili problem) and asked the DM to start rolling the stats for him. The DM rolled for the first set and got at least a 1 on one of the dies because he rerolled that die and got another 1 so repeat roll to get something else.... 7 rolls later he gave up on it and asked us to roll ( he kept rolling 1's and 2's). We kept rolling 2's and 1's for about 5 more rolls. I asked the DM what his other 3 rolls were and he said 6,5 &6. So I said WTF!!!! we wasted how many rolls just so he could have a chance at an 18? The DM started laughing and said fine he gets a 3 then, sorry I wasn't paying attention to the other numbers all I saw was that I rolled a 1 and needed to reroll. This system works pretty good except for that one time. We usually get at least an 18 out of all it and the rest are average stats.
Jesper
11-13-05, 03:18 PM as for the feat=stat idea that allready exsists in the epic hand book (see epic feats)
syntaxerror37
11-15-05, 02:29 AM 4d6(6 times), drop the lowest keep the ones. If a player wants a re-roll he has to re-roll the entier set.

Point-buy is for NPCs, heros roll their stats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rkr1970 10-08-05, 02:04 AM	I have seen so many new and different ways to roll up characters at local games that I thought I would share a couple. The first is a frustrating method for players, but it's very well balanced. Players roll the 4d6 drop low method to get 12 numbers. They then pair up the best and worst, second best & second worst, etc. A set of stats might look like this when all paired up--- 18 - 8 17 - 10 15 - 10 14 - 11 14 - 12 13 - 13 You then get to pick 3 pairs for your character. That means you can only take the best score if you take the worst. A harsh but fair system. Probably why a lot of players don't like it. The other system I've seen, and started using in my games, is just as frustrating for players, but for a completly different reason. You have them roll 24d6, rerolling if there are more than six 1's or there are more 1's, 2's, and 3's total than 4's, 5's & 6's total. Once the player has a useable roll, they may take any 3 dice and apply them to any ability. Then, they take any 3 remaining dice and put them towards another ability. Repeat until all 6 are filled and there are 6 dice left over. Sounds like a nice setup, eh? Imagine getting only four 6's and four 5's, five 4's, three 3's six 2's and two 1's. Do you take 18,16,14 for the best 3, or 17,17,14, or even 17,16,16? What about 18, 15, 15? For the low 3 you could try 12, 10, 7 or 11, 9, 9, or maybe 10, 10, 9? Is 18, 16, 13, 10, 10, 10 a set you can use? As you can see, it doesn't matter how you play with the numbers, unless the player had about eight 6's, they're going to feel like they can't quite get the numbers they want. But they can almost always get the numbers they need for a character with good bonuses in their most important attributes. I'm always on the lookout for better ways to generate characters that players accept as being fair. If you know of a new, BALANCED way to come up with stats, please let me know.
FlameLover 10-08-05, 02:11 AM	I just make players use the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). That way they get good enough stats to play there character well but you don't get any 20+ stat cheese.
rkr1970 10-08-05, 02:15 AM	Even as a DM I don't like the elite array. Feels too artificial. No individuality. And the numbers just don't make you feel like your character is destined for greatness.
FlameLover 10-08-05, 02:24 AM	What do you mean no individuality? I mean you can place them how you want and add in the different racial adjustments.. theres plenty of individuality i think. And my group likes playing more "realistic" heroes, atleast to begin with. But every group is different (like i don't like how you roll scores since you get 17s easy, etc.)
Telis_the_Deadeye 10-08-05, 12:55 PM	(like i don't like how you roll scores since you get 17s easy, etc.) How can you not see how he's doing his rolls? It's the whole point of this thread! RKR, you could give players 3 of each number 1-6 and let them move them around like in your example. Then everyone gets the same potential.
Koga:The ninja trick 10-08-05, 02:08 PM	How about this, you roll 5d6 and depending on the die roll of each dice, dictates a stat number. This will insure few stats under 8, and fewer stats over 20. D6 1-8 2-10 3-12 4-14 5-16 6-18
DmMagnus 10-08-05, 07:07 PM	is to roll the standart PHB way twice. and pick the best set. Some wil get better characters than others, But it is like that in the real world to. We are all good at something, but somebody is good at almost everything.
RaspK FOG 10-09-05, 04:22 AM	For my conversion of Masque of the Red Death (a generally low-PC-power setting), I either allow one to use a modified point-buy system (which starts at 5 and goes up to 16) or allow the player to roll 4d12, keep second highest and add it to 4; both seem to work beautifully so far on the playtesting.
lostone 10-09-05, 08:13 AM	I prefer point-buy straight out of the DMG. We typically go with the 32 points. It allows players to focus on one or two great stats or even things out as needed. Plus it is more fun to watch the players agonize over the placement of every point than it is to watch them roll dice for stats. Besides, I'm pretty sure at least one player fudges there stat rolls if not watched like a hawk. :rolleyes: No one is that lucky. :D
OzyBurrfoot 10-09-05, 12:58 PM	In our games we've started using a new method that gives a spread between 8 and 18, that we're quite comfortable with. It does tend to give a higher average then most rolling systems, but it hasnt bothered us so far. We tend to prefer characters with higher stats. Plus we have a couple people in our group who consistently rolls stats Roll 3d6, six times and add the two best to a base score of 6 in each ability. Occasionally the DM has us reroll any ones, but thats for more "epic" feeling games. (mind you thats a lower case "e" to differentiate from true Epic (lvl 20+) games.)
Eliza_Stormwhisper 10-09-05, 10:48 PM	I typically use 28 point buy myself, but 2d6+6 six times and arranged as desired is a pretty interesting one, I think.
Arcade 10-10-05, 07:50 AM	I have 2 general methods. 1) Do the typical 4d6 distribution. At the end, roll one extra dice and use it to replace any one other dice. This will let a character who rolled 2 low rolls for the same stat (like 4,3,1,1 or 6,6,2,1) have a chance at making their score that much better. It gives the players a sense of being able to control their character stats a little more. 2) The other system I use is to make them roll their stats with normal 4d6, but they are allowed to take stats however they wish, not just with the 3 highest. Then I let them point buy up to 28 points. So characters can take high dice rolls to get great stats, or they can take the lower rolls and customize a little more. It's customization versus high stats.
RaspK FOG 10-10-05, 09:50 AM	2d6 + 6 seems a fine way to go by all means.
Orion959 10-10-05, 10:28 AM	The system I use with my girlfriend's kids, who have just started playing D&D this year (ages 8 and 10) is as follows: 18 1d4 + 14 1d6 + 12 1d8 + 10 1d10 + 8 1d12 +6 They seem to end up with above average scores in most abilities, which is good for them since I am having a hell of a time making them understand that stats aren't the end-all be-all of the game. But, they're kids, so it's pretty rough. They like this system, I have never used it in any other games I run, and probably wouldn't. Cheers!
Millennium 10-14-05, 11:06 AM	The problem I have with the elite array is that it encourages using race as a min-maxing factor. Min-maxing stats is bad enough as it is. What I do is this. The basis starts with six rolls of 3d6, but with a twist: any die you dislike can be rerolled at a -X penalty, where X is the number of times you've already rolled that die. Anything less than 1 is adjusted to 1, and you can reroll as many times as you want (though it's pointless once you hit -5). EXAMPLE: Alice rolls 3d6 and comes up with 6-6-1. She feels she can do better than this, so she rolls the die which came up 1 at a -1 penalty. She rolls a 1 again, which is effectively still 1. She rolls again at -2 and gets a 4, which is now effectively 2. She could roll again at -3, but the only way to do better than a 2 in that case would be to roll a 6, so she laments her bad luck and accepts the roll. The final score is 6-6-2, or 14. This gives characters a chance to bump up poor rolls without guaranteeing uber scores. An unlucky roller can still get stuck with a low score -and believe me, I've seen it happen- but the players appreciate having the chance to do better.
Jaxgaret 10-14-05, 07:59 PM	I actually thought of an interesting rolling method that would give characters' ability scores more of a random, personal feel - the typical 'roll 4d6 reroll 1s and drop the lowest roll' guarantees that all of your scores will be between 6 and 18, and most rolls between 10 and 16. My method is thus: roll one of each: d2 d4 d6 d8 d10 d12, drop the two lowest and the highest. If a player gets REALLY lucky or unlucky with their rolls, the highest roll can be a 24, and the lowest a 3. But the average roll is just about the same as the abovementioned method. And it's more fun (and exciting!) to roll a bunch of different dice. It's a gamble every time. You can also try rolling d4 d6 d8 d10 d12 drop the lowest and highest rolls, seven times, and drop the lowest total roll. If you normally do '4d6 and drop lowest roll', then d4 d6 d8 d10 d12 and drop lowest and highest roll is about the same average. This is not as complicated as I am making it sound, at all! It's actually easier than the basic rolling system. For something simpler along the same lines, roll two d10s and reroll all ones. Or roll two d12s.
Thelon Fairblade 10-17-05, 10:01 AM	IMC, we do this: Roll 4d6-drop-lowest as normal. If the total of your 6 stats is not at least 72, you can roll again or simply do a 30-pt-buy. Among my 4 players, I actually had 1 choose not to roll at all and just go with the 30-pt-buy right off the bat. The other 3 rolled; one kept his initial roll, the other two had to roll again, and both lucked out with reasonably good rolls the second time. In the previous campaign, I imposed a balance rule on rolling: if you get lucky enough to have an "18", your next roll (or a random roll, if that was your sixth) is automatically an "8" -- for every heroic attribute, there is a flaw. It was interesting to see people excited about 16s and 17s, and bummed at an 18! However, I will also point out that IMC, I allow feats to be spent for +1 to attributes. At 4th level, the human barbarian2/fighter2 only has 2 combat feats, having taken "STR Training" (17 to 18), "DEX training" (13 to 14), and "CHA training" (7 to 8) as her other feats. Hasn't caused a problem so far -- neither spellcaster (cleric "archer" and a battlesorcerer) has invested feats in increasing their spellcasting stats, for example.
Jaxgaret 10-18-05, 01:11 AM	However, I will also point out that IMC, I allow feats to be spent for +1 to attributes. At 4th level, the human barbarian2/fighter2 only has 2 combat feats, having taken "STR Training" (17 to 18), "DEX training" (13 to 14), and "CHA training" (7 to 8) as her other feats. Hasn't caused a problem so far -- neither spellcaster (cleric "archer" and a battlesorcerer) has invested feats in increasing their spellcasting stats, for example. Whoa. So Fighters can just go STR/DEX/CON training with all their bonus feats? Or is there some kind of limitation.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-18-05, 01:15 AM	96 point buy. I swear by it.
Thelon Fairblade 10-18-05, 10:10 AM	Jaxgaret: the limitation is that Attribute Training is a [General] feat, not on the "fighter bonus feat". No +17 STR for the fighter (but +6 is possible). The fear (stated by tarkin) is that a spellcaster will, across his 20 levels, take +6 to his casting stat (in addition to the normal +5 from level-up), getting another +3 on his save DCs. My answer is "sure, but he doesn't pick up empower spell, or improved familiar, or spell focus, or item crafting, or Fell Drain, or whatever. just stronger spells with no specials. So far, as I said, it has worked out okay.
Jaxgaret 10-18-05, 11:51 AM	Jaxgaret: the limitation is that Attribute Training is a [General] feat, not on the "fighter bonus feat". No +17 STR for the fighter (but +6 is possible). The fear (stated by tarkin) is that a spellcaster will, across his 20 levels, take +6 to his casting stat (in addition to the normal +5 from level-up), getting another +3 on his save DCs. My answer is "sure, but he doesn't pick up empower spell, or improved familiar, or spell focus, or item crafting, or Fell Drain, or whatever. just stronger spells with no specials. So far, as I said, it has worked out okay. Gotcha. I misread your post! It's actually a max of +7 to stats, or +8 for a human (seven feats is normal progression over twenty levels), not including ability bonuses every 4th level. So, total plusses for a character can be +13 (+8 for human adds, +5 for ability adds). Mmm 31 base stat... +5 inherent bonus and +6 magical item bonus = 42 caster stat. tasty.
Darrett 10-18-05, 12:52 PM	I use either 4d6 and drop lowest, or 3d6. Place your rolls where you want them, generally. 18s are extremely rare, especially when I use the 3d6 method. More realistic characters that way.
Stev Beren 10-18-05, 12:56 PM	5d4 - 2 six times, and supply a number of 'point buy' points depending on what you want the stats to end up being towards. SStill provides the standard range, tends to cluster towards the middle, but allows players to have some extraordinary stats.
NexusX 10-18-05, 03:06 PM	Wow, I knew there were a lot of systems out there, and I've used a fair number of different ones. We used to enjoy giving out a point pool, allowing players to roll to figure out what percentage of the total pool they get to play with - then they can dish out the points as they like. Unfortunately, as you can imagine, that meant they always got at least 1 18. Here's the one my players seem to like best (forgive me if someone else posted this - I might have missed it). Roll 7 sets of 4d6 (keep 3 on each set). Then drop the lowest set so you end up with only 6 numbers. Cheers, NexusX
super*rare 11-08-05, 02:11 AM	roll 4D6 of one color die and one of another color. add the 3 highest.if the fourth die is a "1" add that,too (max. 18) if the one color die is a 5 or 6, add all four dice. (max 18) both effects can occur at the same time. because no "ones" likes to roll ones. :)
Jerks 11-08-05, 08:12 AM	Max Customize Roll 24d6, drop the lowest six dice. Place in sets of three to get your six ability scores. This allows for a bit more flexibility than the standard rules. We used it for a while, switched to 4d6, reroll 1's once, and arrange to taste. My players prefer the chance to rolling higher all around instead of the ability to customize...go figure.
Meatboy 11-08-05, 09:58 AM	In my latest trist with the worlds of dnd I had my players roll 7 sets of 3d6 drop the lowest set and they could reroll again if they wished. This led the players to end up with slightly less powerful characters than the standard 4d6 and slightly more powerful than a simple 3d6. It worked great for my low magic campaign.
2y1y1z2 11-08-05, 10:06 AM	My campaigns are brutal so I let my players either take the standard set (18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 14) I use for all my monsters, or roll 5d6 and drop the lowest two to see if they can get something better.
Otherguy 11-08-05, 06:04 PM	I've played a few games in my day. We tend to run power campaigns where I'm from, so we've used our standard system which is 4d6 drop lowest six times and THEN drop the lowest and make it an 18 assuming you don't have one, or we've used 4d6 six times and, on one score, you don't drop the lowest and instead keep all four. It's not that unbalanced.
Tobus Neth 11-10-05, 04:53 AM	1d6=Daddy 1d6=Mommy 1d6= Your character
lostone 11-10-05, 07:13 AM	1d6=Daddy 1d6=Mommy 1d6= Your character :confused: :thinks:
Rogal Dorn 11-12-05, 10:27 AM	i have always used the 32 point buy system, but recently my players have complained about their characters not being heroic enough. as a friendly dm i let roll with 4d4+4. it�s a bit uber, but it makes players really happy and gives them a decent chance of survival against potentially deadly crits (wound points) and arcane corruption. ;)
Koga:The ninja trick 11-12-05, 06:51 PM	8+1d12 is one to consider.. But that 2d6+6 was a pretty good idea..
The Hive Custodian 11-12-05, 11:25 PM	An interesting series is Xd6, double highest drop X - 2 lowest. So, 2d6 double highest, 3d6 double highest and drop lowest, 4d6 double highest and drop two lowest, and so on. More unpredictable than the standard Xd6 drop X - 3 lowest. As a statistical note, if the general population uses 3d6 for stats, the average (mean) 4d6 drop lowest character has a higher ability score total than over 90% of the population. The average 5d6 drop two lowest character is at about the 99th percentile. The 18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 14 array mentioned earlier totals 98; that's about one in 4 million.
LiamDeclan 11-13-05, 12:25 AM	we use the 4d6 six times and reroll any 1's and 2's. There was one time a party member died and the DM said go ahead and make a new character. The player who was needing a new one had to go to the restroom (bad chili problem) and asked the DM to start rolling the stats for him. The DM rolled for the first set and got at least a 1 on one of the dies because he rerolled that die and got another 1 so repeat roll to get something else.... 7 rolls later he gave up on it and asked us to roll ( he kept rolling 1's and 2's). We kept rolling 2's and 1's for about 5 more rolls. I asked the DM what his other 3 rolls were and he said 6,5 &6. So I said WTF!!!! we wasted how many rolls just so he could have a chance at an 18? The DM started laughing and said fine he gets a 3 then, sorry I wasn't paying attention to the other numbers all I saw was that I rolled a 1 and needed to reroll. This system works pretty good except for that one time. We usually get at least an 18 out of all it and the rest are average stats.
Jesper 11-13-05, 03:18 PM	as for the feat=stat idea that allready exsists in the epic hand book (see epic feats)
syntaxerror37 11-15-05, 02:29 AM	4d6(6 times), drop the lowest keep the ones. If a player wants a re-roll he has to re-roll the entier set. Point-buy is for NPCs, heros roll their stats.