Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Warweaver 01-31-08, 03:03 AM	I'm sure this has been looked at before but I couldn't find it via the search function. I'm looking for you folks' opinion of a house rule - basically, if a Sorcerer finds a way to add spells to his spell list, he gets them as spells known. Since all the ways I've seen to add spells to one's list are fairly limited, I don't think this would be unbalancing...but maybe you can prove me wrong. Some examples (all from Complete Divine, strangely enough): 1) Taking the Arcane Disciple feat adds the spells of that domain to your spells known. 2) Taking levels in a PrC that grants an extra domain (if you can somehow get in with Sorc) will add them to your spells known (unless you're trying to add it to both Cleric and Sorc levels, in which case it's DM common sense to make you choose). :P 3) One PrC people might point to as a problem is the Rainbow Servant. It grants you sorc domains at a few levels, but caps at 10th with having access to the entire Cleric spell list. However, is this so bad with the House Rule? Notice that your caster level and spell progression is actually one level lower than a comparable Mystic Theurge. You're basically trading 1 extra level of spell progression and an entire second suite of Cleric abilities (spells-per-day, 3 levels of d8 HD and +Fort, etc.) for a few slightly-useful abilities and only having to take Practiced Spellcaster once instead of twice. I would say the Rainbow Servant PrC without this house rule is ten wasted levels. Feel free to poke holes in this, I want to see how bad it could get before I consider implementation.
Tequila_Sunrise 01-31-08, 05:23 PM	Um...what exactly is your question and what does it have to do with house rules? It looks like you're just asking if a particular class/feat combo is legal or not. TS
Warweaver 01-31-08, 08:01 PM	Sorry, I should've been more specific. The rules in Complete Divine (and other sources) state that whenever a Sorcerer gains access to a new Domain, spell list, or series of spells, he doesn't immediately get them as part of his Spells Known. The sorcerer has to pick them as his spells known while he levels up, and he can never exceed his limit on Spells Known in the PHB. I think this is too restricting for classes and feats like the ones I mention - with the house rule, they would be added automatically to Spells Known, surpassing the limitation. Essentially, feats like Arcane Disciple would not increase the Sorcerer's raw power or spells per day, just his versatility. As it stands (without the house rule) I don't think a single one of those options is worth it.
squidyak 01-31-08, 09:56 PM	Sorcerer or Favored Soul? Why would a sorcerer get domains?
Warweaver 02-01-08, 12:34 AM	In Complete Divine mostly, some other books too. Basically you take the feat and pick a deity your Sorc worships and has the same alignment as - you can then pick one Domain of that god, and add the spells in that domain to your spell list.
Tequila_Sunrise 02-01-08, 01:14 AM	Well that doesn't sound unbalanced, but...not to be snide, if you think sorcs should have more spells known why are you trying to use this obscure backdoor way to give them more? Wouldn't it be simpler and more effective to just make a feat (I think there's one in the Complete Arcane that does so) or a PrC that does exactly that? Or just alter the sorc's spells known table if you think they really need it? Just curious, TS
Warweaver 02-01-08, 03:40 AM	It's a multitude of factors. Basically I really liked the flavor of stuff like Arcane Disciple, but the execution of it and PrCs like Rainbow Servant was ridiculously lackluster. I prefer the flavor of feats and PrCs for a "devout sorcerer" or anything that gives you a specific theme of spells known like Domains - I wouldn't just want to increase the Sorcerer's list or let a player just pick more "money spells" - that's boring. :P Also in my experience - house rules can be fun, but the less new material one shoves into their campaign, the easier it is for players (esp. new ones) to feel comfortable with their choices. So if I can tie this idea to existing material, so much the better.
Tequila_Sunrise 02-01-08, 04:46 AM	Hm, okay. I guess I'm just thinking about players who might not want to be an arcane cleric, so to speak, in order to get bonus spells.
Warweaver 02-01-08, 08:00 AM	right, it wouldn't have to be that. You could have a feat called "Flamelord" for example, that gives the Sorc Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Fire Shield, Flamestrike, Fire Storm, Incendiary Cloud, and Meteor Swarm. Anything that expands the Sorc's list in a certain "themed" direction would work with this - but I think letting the sorc just pick a spell at each level is a bit too powerful. The "cleric-y" stuff in Complete Divine was just the easiest example.
Tequila_Sunrise 02-01-08, 03:12 PM	Ah, okay. I like that a lot more! TS
Zog_Jakome 02-01-08, 04:03 PM	I never really liked the sorcerer's selection of spells especially when you have classes like beguiler and warmage that can cast every spell in their class list. because of this and the fact that sorcerers get nothing else as far as class features I would add 1 or 2 to each level. how about this a kind of specialist sorcerer but one not as limited as wizard specialist. you gain 1 extra spell known for each school you have prohibited yourself from ever choosing again, you cannot choose divination or universal as prohibited schools, max is 2 extra spells known.
Totentanz 02-01-08, 04:05 PM	There are a set of feats in the Dragon Compendium that do exactly what you want. They give bonus spells known along a theme; with a small sacrifice for the extra versatility (i.e. the shadow one means you don't cast light spells anymore). I wouldn't hold them up as paragons of balance or implementation, but they are a good start.
Warweaver 02-01-08, 05:26 PM	That sounds promising, I'll have to check it out. Thanks! Sidenote: I've always liked Totentanz as the name for some scary guy. Ever since I saw it in the game Aberrant and had to look up the meaning. :P