Spell Point question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spell Point question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ghost0
01-08-08, 07:34 PM How do Pearls of Power work with the Spell Point system in UE?
I was actually thinking that there might be two different kinds.
1. a pearl of power could simply infuse you with more spell power, therefore just granting you additional spell points during any day that you hold it during prayer or preparation of spells.
2. a silver pearl of power could grant you additional spell points just as mentioned above, but in addition, it would open your mind or prayers to additional use, should you be able to prepare your spells.

I see it like this, in the vancian system, pearls of power give you an extra spell slot, or an additional spell per day depending on whether your prepare spells or not. So just granting spell points with a pearl of power isn't really as powerful to wizard or druid or cleric who PREPARE their spells, because they don't really get the added benefit of having another DIFFERENT spell at the ready. Now, I see how with the spell point system it is understood that the ability to use many lower level spells much more in one day outweighs the versatility of having more different spells of higher level to cast, but it is interesting to think that you could also have a magic item now that actually DOES grant you an extra slot for a different spell, in addition to granting you the spell points in which to cast it. However, because it is more versatile (as in, you could use the spell points imbued in the silver pearl of power to, say, cast multiple lower level spells), I believe it would have to be a bit more expensive than the listed PoPs in the DMG.

What are peoples' thoughts on this?
Kas_the_undead
01-08-08, 10:26 PM Well don't know if it helps, but my group uses spell points so of power and of magi mods just grant additional Spell points
Ghost0
01-10-08, 01:00 AM Have you considered having an item that both boosts a character's spell points and offers an extra slot?
Kas_the_undead
01-15-08, 12:03 AM we have considered them doing either one or the other and using numberst 1st, 2nd, 3rd. ect ect for spell slots and I, II, II, IV, ect ect for spell points but nothing for both
Zog_Jakome
01-15-08, 11:43 AM I never thought this would be a question it seems so clear, but pearls of power grant you spell points as well as the extra slots to spend the extra spell points on.

in the old system pearl of power gives a cleric and wizard extra slots to memorize spells thus they gain more spells per day.

what spell points does is seperate the spell slots and the means to cast those spells.

normally you just use a prepared slot but say that each prepared slot has two entities that you need to cast the spell but in RAW they never explain it because they don't have to, spell points system takes those entities and seperates it, one entity stays the same, the spell slots, but the means to cast those spells get numberized into spell points.

so when you aquire a pearl of power normally you double the spell level's spell slots thus actually giving you both the extra spells and the means to cast it, therefore in the spell point system itwould give you extra spell slots and the spell points to cast those extra spells.
Ghost0
01-19-08, 11:47 AM I really kind of disagree Zog. First of all pearls of power don't double your spells for a level, you may be thinking of rings of wizardry. I play with the spell point system in almost every game, so I'm aware of how it works. But the point is, Pearls of Power were originally only beneficial to casters that prepare spells, because it helped increase their versatility—you're right, it would give them a slot plus the ability to cast that spell. However, with the spell point system, if you were to give a caster a pearl of power that gave them an extra slot and an increase of spell points associated with the level of the pearl, then you are essentially giving them a little MORE power. The wizard could use a PoP 3th level to memorize an additional spell, but then not use that spell at all, but still use the 5 spell points for something else. you are increasing their "mana" AND versatility, whereas in the vancian system, you would really only be increasing their versatility.

The thing that is also important to me, is pricing. If the spell point system version of the PoP is indeed more powerful, then shouldn't it be reflected in its price?

What I was suggesting was breaking the item up into two different items: one that just grants extra spell points of the associated level of the pearl, and one that gives both. But the former is now actually a little LESS powerful by not granting the versatility of a vancian PoP. So, my suggestion comes along with an adjustment to prices.
Spell Point Pearl of Power (only grants additional spell points of level) = PoP price as listed x 3/4
Spell Point "Gold" Pearl of Power (grants both spell points of level and additional slot of that level) = PoP price as listed x 1 1/4

Do others not agree? How do you feel about these meager adjustments?
Zog_Jakome
01-20-08, 06:55 AM I really kind of disagree Zog. First of all pearls of power don't double your spells for a level, you may be thinking of rings of wizardry.

:doh:

yeah rings of wizardry was what I was thinking of, but pearl of power (after reading it) does not even grant you another spell it basically allows you to recall a spell that you cast before basically in this system it would simply give you an increase in current spell points, for example

you have a pearl of power level 4, because the system blends the spells per day together you cast any level spell (to decrease your current spell points) you can activate the pearl to gain 7 spell points back.
Ghost0
01-23-08, 01:52 AM you're totally right. I guess I didn't even really read it that carefully. I always assumed that you got the extra spell at the time of preparation.

This begs the question...COULD there be such an item? Because frankly, I don't see how this is the best thing to have in the spell points system. What I think I would want is just to have additional mana per day. OR to have additional mana PLUS the ability to prepare another, extra spell in a certain level.
Zog_Jakome
01-23-08, 11:30 AM if you are a wizard then rings of wizardry are your ticket they double the number of spells at a certain level before adding in bonus spells from having a high ability score so for most wizards it would turn that 4 into a six, thus you could memorize 6 spells for the day and gain spell points equal to twice the cost of the level

for example say you have a ring of wizardry 2, the cost of the item would certainly allow you to memorize 4 2nd level spells normally this would allow you to prepare 2 more 2nd level spells and give you 6 more spell points.

but the down side is it is only for wizards, but I don't see an item in dmg or magic item compendium that allows this for other classes but I see no problem with making the item possible but keep in mind doubling a sorcerers spell per day would double a max of 6 instead of four and only give spell points not new spells since the list of spells known is different from spell per day.

and for clerics you must decide if it includes the domain spell or not I would say no because taking out the domain spells of a cleric gives them the same number of spells as a wizard at 1st level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ghost0 01-08-08, 07:34 PM	How do Pearls of Power work with the Spell Point system in UE? I was actually thinking that there might be two different kinds. 1. a pearl of power could simply infuse you with more spell power, therefore just granting you additional spell points during any day that you hold it during prayer or preparation of spells. 2. a silver pearl of power could grant you additional spell points just as mentioned above, but in addition, it would open your mind or prayers to additional use, should you be able to prepare your spells. I see it like this, in the vancian system, pearls of power give you an extra spell slot, or an additional spell per day depending on whether your prepare spells or not. So just granting spell points with a pearl of power isn't really as powerful to wizard or druid or cleric who PREPARE their spells, because they don't really get the added benefit of having another DIFFERENT spell at the ready. Now, I see how with the spell point system it is understood that the ability to use many lower level spells much more in one day outweighs the versatility of having more different spells of higher level to cast, but it is interesting to think that you could also have a magic item now that actually DOES grant you an extra slot for a different spell, in addition to granting you the spell points in which to cast it. However, because it is more versatile (as in, you could use the spell points imbued in the silver pearl of power to, say, cast multiple lower level spells), I believe it would have to be a bit more expensive than the listed PoPs in the DMG. What are peoples' thoughts on this?
Kas_the_undead 01-08-08, 10:26 PM	Well don't know if it helps, but my group uses spell points so of power and of magi mods just grant additional Spell points
Ghost0 01-10-08, 01:00 AM	Have you considered having an item that both boosts a character's spell points and offers an extra slot?
Kas_the_undead 01-15-08, 12:03 AM	we have considered them doing either one or the other and using numberst 1st, 2nd, 3rd. ect ect for spell slots and I, II, II, IV, ect ect for spell points but nothing for both
Zog_Jakome 01-15-08, 11:43 AM	I never thought this would be a question it seems so clear, but pearls of power grant you spell points as well as the extra slots to spend the extra spell points on. in the old system pearl of power gives a cleric and wizard extra slots to memorize spells thus they gain more spells per day. what spell points does is seperate the spell slots and the means to cast those spells. normally you just use a prepared slot but say that each prepared slot has two entities that you need to cast the spell but in RAW they never explain it because they don't have to, spell points system takes those entities and seperates it, one entity stays the same, the spell slots, but the means to cast those spells get numberized into spell points. so when you aquire a pearl of power normally you double the spell level's spell slots thus actually giving you both the extra spells and the means to cast it, therefore in the spell point system itwould give you extra spell slots and the spell points to cast those extra spells.
Ghost0 01-19-08, 11:47 AM	I really kind of disagree Zog. First of all pearls of power don't double your spells for a level, you may be thinking of rings of wizardry. I play with the spell point system in almost every game, so I'm aware of how it works. But the point is, Pearls of Power were originally only beneficial to casters that prepare spells, because it helped increase their versatility—you're right, it would give them a slot plus the ability to cast that spell. However, with the spell point system, if you were to give a caster a pearl of power that gave them an extra slot and an increase of spell points associated with the level of the pearl, then you are essentially giving them a little MORE power. The wizard could use a PoP 3th level to memorize an additional spell, but then not use that spell at all, but still use the 5 spell points for something else. you are increasing their "mana" AND versatility, whereas in the vancian system, you would really only be increasing their versatility. The thing that is also important to me, is pricing. If the spell point system version of the PoP is indeed more powerful, then shouldn't it be reflected in its price? What I was suggesting was breaking the item up into two different items: one that just grants extra spell points of the associated level of the pearl, and one that gives both. But the former is now actually a little LESS powerful by not granting the versatility of a vancian PoP. So, my suggestion comes along with an adjustment to prices. Spell Point Pearl of Power (only grants additional spell points of level) = PoP price as listed x 3/4 Spell Point "Gold" Pearl of Power (grants both spell points of level and additional slot of that level) = PoP price as listed x 1 1/4 Do others not agree? How do you feel about these meager adjustments?
Zog_Jakome 01-20-08, 06:55 AM	I really kind of disagree Zog. First of all pearls of power don't double your spells for a level, you may be thinking of rings of wizardry. :doh: yeah rings of wizardry was what I was thinking of, but pearl of power (after reading it) does not even grant you another spell it basically allows you to recall a spell that you cast before basically in this system it would simply give you an increase in current spell points, for example you have a pearl of power level 4, because the system blends the spells per day together you cast any level spell (to decrease your current spell points) you can activate the pearl to gain 7 spell points back.
Ghost0 01-23-08, 01:52 AM	you're totally right. I guess I didn't even really read it that carefully. I always assumed that you got the extra spell at the time of preparation. This begs the question...COULD there be such an item? Because frankly, I don't see how this is the best thing to have in the spell points system. What I think I would want is just to have additional mana per day. OR to have additional mana PLUS the ability to prepare another, extra spell in a certain level.
Zog_Jakome 01-23-08, 11:30 AM	if you are a wizard then rings of wizardry are your ticket they double the number of spells at a certain level before adding in bonus spells from having a high ability score so for most wizards it would turn that 4 into a six, thus you could memorize 6 spells for the day and gain spell points equal to twice the cost of the level for example say you have a ring of wizardry 2, the cost of the item would certainly allow you to memorize 4 2nd level spells normally this would allow you to prepare 2 more 2nd level spells and give you 6 more spell points. but the down side is it is only for wizards, but I don't see an item in dmg or magic item compendium that allows this for other classes but I see no problem with making the item possible but keep in mind doubling a sorcerers spell per day would double a max of 6 instead of four and only give spell points not new spells since the list of spells known is different from spell per day. and for clerics you must decide if it includes the domain spell or not I would say no because taking out the domain spells of a cleric gives them the same number of spells as a wizard at 1st level.