Post/Author/DateTime	Post
starfan_eric 08-22-05, 01:03 PM	HI I was wondering how exactly the spell point works for certain spells.. I know for magic missile if you want 2 missiles you have to bring your caster level up to 3rd with spending 2 extra spell points.... But what about a cleric who cast cure light wound at caster level 5 for 1D8+5... Would he also have to spend extra spell points... My second question is if you have a headband of intellect +x does it grant extra spell points?
Merryadocc 08-22-05, 02:11 PM	I know for magic missile if you want 2 missiles you have to bring your caster level up to 3rd with spending 2 extra spell points.... This is not true, no matter what level you are a magic missle will only cost you one spell point. The number of missles you create is based off your caster level. The only time magic missle will cost you more spell points is when you apply a metamagic feat to it. But what about a cleric who cast cure light wound at caster level 5 for 1D8+5... Would he also have to spend extra spell points... No, the C.L.W. would still cost one spell point. My second question is if you have a headband of intellect +x does it grant extra spell points? Only if you rested the your 8 hours with it equiped before you prepared your daily spell list. Hopr this helps :)
starfan_eric 08-22-05, 02:24 PM	No the stuff I said was coming from the book... I do not remember what page... But it did say that for each extra Extra Dice of damage you have to spend 1 more spell point ... they have the exemple of the fireball, Magic missile and others... For magic missile you have to spent 2 point for Extra Dice of damage... VS 1 spell point for a fireball... I was wondering if there was any erata or F.A.Q. regarding this... To my point of view it does not make any sense... But my DM is saying that That's the way it has to be... I am just trying to find info about it... I would quote the book pages but I do not have the book with me... I know it is 1 or 2 page after the tables... Thanks for the help
Merryadocc 08-22-05, 02:44 PM	you have to spent 2 point for Extra Dice of damage This to me sounds like you can spend extra spell points beyond the spell points you spend on casting a spell to add an extra dice of damage beyond the standard damage, e.g. a level 9 wizard casts magic missle for one spell point for 5d4+5 but could spend an additional 2 spell points to make it 6d4+6, or the same wizard would spend five spell points to cast a 9d6 fireball but could up the dice in the spell to 10d6 for an additional two spell points or up it to 11d6 for an additional four spell points. Wow, that was long winded, I need to use more punctuation. Nah, screw that. Hope that adds some flavor to the discussion. If my post doesn't make much sense rules wise my UA is currently miles away and I can't access it.
TJWitz 08-22-05, 07:48 PM	Actually, there is a variant which basically enforces the following: All spells are automatically cast at BASE caster level (i.e. no matter what your caster level, magic missile costs 1 point and does 1d4+1). You can spent additional points on a spell to increase it's effective caster level up to a maximum of your current level. So a 9th level wizard could spend 2 more points to increase their effective caster level to 3, casting the magic missile for 2d4+2. In a vancian system, the maximum number of level 1 spells a caster can utilize per day is the number of slots they have; you can replace a higher level spell with exactly one lower level spell. A spell point system offers this replacement at a much higher rate, since a spell of 3th level, being worth say, 3 points, is worth 3 1st level spells. I think this variant rule deals with this specific, inherent imbalance in spell points. And heck, casters could use a nerfing anyways... :)
Verelor 08-22-05, 08:38 PM	Please be informed: There are a hundred bajillion and three different spell point systems for D&D. The UA system may be one of the worst. The way it handles spell scaling is especially terrible. A ninth-level spell is really worth a LOT more than 9 1st-level spells. Basic example: Player: Hmm, should I spend nine spell points for my character to cast nine magic missile spells over the course of 9 rounds on the army of goblins that approaches me or should I spend nine points to cast meteor swarm in one round?... DM: I dunno. You tell me. Quite hilarious, idnit? :D But to get back on a serious and productive track, google is a great tool, try to find a spell list out there you'll really like.
Greyson 08-23-05, 02:27 AM	The more I look, the more I feel that a Spell Points system is vastly superior to the concept of memorization. How can a spellcaster suffer multiple bouts of amnesia on a daily basis regarding something he or she has read and studied assidously? Anyway, here is an interesting thread at ENWorld regarding this very issue: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=143773 I hope to find a Spell Point system that works well, is balanced, and is consistent. I am going to experiment with Unearthed Arcana's system to see how it works. A couple of posters have said in another thread of this nature that UA's Spell Point Costs do not equate well with memorized spell lists. I am going to give it a try, because I really do think that Spell Points are more interesting and more in harmony with fantasy magic. Perhaps between the lost of us we can figure something out. I'd still like to find a way to get around prepared spell lists - it is still too close to "memorization" for me. Happy gaming.
starfan_eric 08-23-05, 10:48 AM	So with all that have been said... What would be a good ruling on the difference between a Cure spell and a fireball... Normally fireball should cost 5 SP = 5D6 damage, to make it do 10D6... 5 or 10 SP... Cure critical... 3D8+5 = 5 SP.... 3D8+10 = ??????? That is what I have trouble with... To me the Spell point system seems to include these extra cost because they are in the main section. What is the goal for making you spend extra point to cast a spell the way it is intended to be... Why would the extra cost only affected damaging spell and not all spells. Why should light not be cast as a caster level 1 instead of 5 for the duration. I am looking for justification and explanation... Please help me!!!
Greyson 08-23-05, 12:11 PM	What would be a good ruling on the difference between a Cure spell and a fireball... Normally fireball should cost 5 SP = 5D6 damage, to make it do 10D6... 5 or 10 SP... Cure critical... 3D8+5 = 5 SP.... 3D8+10 = ??????? Starfan, my understanding, after reading page 155 of Unearthed Arcana, is that a wizard casts a fireball at base caster level, being 5th-level, equating to 5d6 for starters. Now, if this is a 10th-level wizard per your example, he has the option to add between one and five more Spell Points, each extra point adding a die of damage. Does this help, Starfan? The answer to your question is yes. Add the appropriate number of Spell Points to boost the effect of your spell. You add one Spell Point to add one extra die of damage on spells that have a number of dice of damage or other multi-die effect. For magic missile, you have to add two Spell Points to get to the next die bump (1st to 3rd, for example, to bump up to two missiles from one). The reason this is cool, is that a caster can tailor his fireball (or other multi-die effect). Why waste a 10d6 fireball on a gang of orcs when a 5d6 or 6d6 explosion is sufficient? Casters have more control over the power of their spells in the Spell Point system. Make any sense, mate?
starfan_eric 08-23-05, 12:29 PM	I understand the part about you could do the same within any game system... You can always cast at a lower level ... So even in the spell per level you could have cast as a 10TH level Wizard a fireball that dealt 5 to 10 D6 of damage... you can always cast at lower level but never higher... The question is why do you have to pay a penalty to offesive spell vs Heal or duration spells?
Merryadocc 08-31-05, 02:32 PM	The question is why do you have to pay a penalty to offesive spell vs Heal or duration spells? Don't, just do what I do and ignore everything on page 155 after the Spell Point Cost table regarding damage spells. There is a bit on page 154 (Behind the Curtain: Spell Points) that talks about the game balance issuse regarding spell points and damage spells. But considering that spell slot conversion to spell point conversion shows that casters get short changed, consider that the game balance in going from spell slots to spell points. My games are much quicker and easier to run when all spells are cast at the caster level of the caster for the spell point cost listed on page 155. Hope this helps. :)
drakkin889 01-28-06, 09:27 PM	Actually, there is a variant which basically enforces the following: All spells are automatically cast at BASE caster level (i.e. no matter what your caster level, magic missile costs 1 point and does 1d4+1). You can spent additional points on a spell to increase it's effective caster level up to a maximum of your current level. So a 9th level wizard could spend 2 more points to increase their effective caster level to 3, casting the magic missile for 2d4+2. ... I know this reply is to an old post; however, it took hours to find that searach was indeed unavailable contrary to the faq. It also took me a bit of time to find this thread. So I shall reply It makes absolutely no since to pay 2 points to increase the power of magic missle by one die 1d4+1. For all such spells i would have to say its 1pt per die up to the normal maximum based upon caster and spell level. This would by no means alter the original intent of spell's author. The UA Variants author made a poor decision by charge per level instead of per die. [/QUOTE] Cure critical... 3D8+5 = 5 SP.... 3D8+10 = ???????[/QUOTE] The UA Variant says that only DAMAGE DIE are affected by the additional spellpoint cost rule.
RaspK FOG 01-29-06, 04:56 AM	I generally prefer using the equivalent of the power point system: the extra points spent equate an effective increase of your caster level, which is why you spend such an amount. Note that some powers under the new rules (found in both the XPH and the SRD) allow you to spend some other amount of points in order to achieve some entirely different result. Thus far, I believe this is the best magic system to be found.
Lina_Inverse 01-29-06, 05:16 AM	Please be informed: There are a hundred bajillion and three different spell point systems for D&D. The UA system may be one of the worst. The way it handles spell scaling is especially terrible. A ninth-level spell is really worth a LOT more than 9 1st-level spells. Basic example: Incorrect its 17 first level spells. Also it is the best mp system for d20, as its designed around the rules and is simple. All of the 3rd party magic systems ive seen are either not simple, ignore the base assumptions of D&D completely, or are completely unbalanced. Player: Hmm, should I spend nine spell points for my character to cast nine magic missile spells over the course of 9 rounds on the army of goblins that approaches me or should I spend nine points to cast meteor swarm in one round?... DM: I dunno. You tell me. Quite hilarious, idnit? :D But to get back on a serious and productive track, google is a great tool, try to find a spell list out there you'll really like. No, at 17th level if you cast a first level spell in a life or death situtation, Your buddys at the mage acadamy laugh at you.... At your funeral. However 17 charm persons or one meteor swarm...hmmmmm. *Uses charm person on the goblin general* Onto the actual optional rule. The base on the mp system you just pay the mp cost and cast the spell(i prefer this.) With the optional optional rule, you pay 1mp for each additional die of damage above the amount at your minium caster level. Thus further nerfing evocation.