Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jack Daniel 05-12-05, 10:46 AM	I like to keep my list of core-classes managable. Whenever some new class comes along, I weigh its merits and decide whether it fits my camapign alongisde the other classes, better than another class, or not at all. Take the dedicated, 9-level spellcasters we have so far: wizard, sorcerer, warlock, cleric, druid, favored soul, spirit shaman, psion, wilder, erudite. In any game that uses spellpoints, everyone is a spontaneous caster -- there is no need to have a "prepared" and a "spontaneous" version of each class. Therfore, clerics & favored souls, wizards & sorcerers, druids & spirit shamans, and erudites & psions all fit the same role and end up looking very similar -- but, the classes with restricted spell-lists (favored soul, sorcerer, psion) get completely shafted. So they're out, dropped in favor of a spell point system for the prepared casters, their roles folded into other classes. I also have little desire to add wilders or warlocks to my campaigns, but that's just personal preference. Between druid and spirit shaman, either one could fit my campaign, but the shaman is the example I'll use here, especially since its "retrieved spells per day" progression opens the way to a balanced spell point system. So, the spellcasting class list is whittled down to cleric, shaman, wizard, and erudite, with the option to play a druid as an alternate shaman if the player really wants to; and if the player wants to say that his character is an innate rather than a learned spellcaster, he can go ahead and call his erudite a psion(icist), his cleric a favored soul, or his wizard a sorcerer -- none of the class features change, though the character may opt to use charisma as his key ability score instead of wisdom or intelligence. All spellcasters prepare a very limited list of spells each day. The limit is fixed, like a sorcerer's known spells, and cannot be increased with a high key ability. Prepared Spells/Unique Powers Per Day MP/PP Per Spell Level Level Day 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1st 2 3 1 – – – – – – – – 2nd 6 3 2 – – – – – – – – 3rd 11 3 2 1 – – – – – – – 4th 17 3 3 1 – – – – – – – 5th 25 3 3 1 1 – – – – – – 6th 35 3 3 2 1 – – – – – – 7th 46 3 3 2 1 1 – – – – – 8th 58 3 3 2 2 1 – – – – – 9th 72 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – – – 10th 88 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – – – 11th 106 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – – 12th 126 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – – 13th 147 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – 14th 170 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – 15th 195 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – 16th 221 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – 17th 250 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 18th 280 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 19th 311 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 20th 343 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 Clerics and specialist mages prepare 1 additional domain or school spell at each spell level. Bonus MP works just like bonus PP for a psionic character: 1/2 times your class level times your key ability bonus. Otherwise, the rules follow the spell point system in Unearthed Arcana. Priests (& Favored Souls): Key ability is wisdom (or charisma). May prepare one extra domain spell at each level, and may swap an already prepared spell for that level's cure spell at any time as a free action, but once the change has been made, it cannot be undone until the cleric can prepare spells again. Shamans (& Druids): Key ability is charisma (or wisdom). May swap an already prepared spell for that level's summon nature's ally spell at any time as a free action. Wizards (& Sorcerers): Key ability is intelligence (or charisma). Specialists may prepare one extra school spell at each level. A wizard with both Spell Mastery and Signature Spell may swap a prepared spell of the same or higher level for his signature spell. Erudites (& Psions): The erudite may now select a discipline at 1st level (since this class replaces the psion), and this choice dictates the erudite's key ability score. Erudites learn new powers exactly as described in Dragon, except that this version of the class, having fewer unique powers per day available, takes no XP penalty when learning a new power that he did not merely discover. Associated Discipline Ability Nickname ---------- ---------- -------- Psychometabolism Charisma Egoist Psychoportation Intelligence Nomad Psychokinesis Wisdom Savant Metacreativity Intelligence Shaper Clairsentience Wisdom Seer Telepathy Charisma Telepath
Thelon Fairblade 05-12-05, 11:26 AM	I like your logic on classes and spellpoints. One issue: the daily spell list just seems sooo small. Even a core sorcerer has more spells available to him at each level...
Jack Daniel 05-12-05, 02:03 PM	It's same chart that the spirit shaman gets, and that class is the only spontaneous caster in the game that can freely change its known spells the way a spellpoint caster can. But beyond that, my design philosophy says, "hey, if 3 spells per spell level are good enough for white mages, red mages, and black mages, then it's good enough for clerics, shamans, and wizards." :) In all seriousness, though, the small daily spell list keeps things balanced. I've found that when you just let characters prepare spells using their normal spell progressions + bonus spells, they pick up rather a bit too much diversity, especially at high levels. What's more, if you use the spell chart that I've given above for clerics, druids, and wizards, it's actually possible to have favored souls & sorcerers stand side-by-side with these classes and be almost balanced. All you have to do is use the standard Unearthed Arcana spell point progressions (rather than the one I use based on psionic power points). It could be done, but I just personally prefer a more streamlined list of classes. This variant would look something like this: Cleric/Druid/Shaman/Wizard Spells Prepared Per Day: MP Per Spell Level Level Day 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1st 2 3 1 – – – – – – – – 2nd 4 3 2 – – – – – – – – 3rd 7 3 2 1 – – – – – – – 4th 11 3 3 1 – – – – – – – 5th 16 3 3 1 1 – – – – – – 6th 24 3 3 2 1 – – – – – – 7th 33 3 3 2 1 1 – – – – – 8th 44 3 3 2 2 1 – – – – – 9th 56 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – – – 10th 72 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – – – 11th 88 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – – 12th 104 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – – 13th 120 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – – 14th 136 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – – 15th 152 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 – 16th 168 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 – 17th 184 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 18th 200 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 19th 116 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 20th 232 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 Clerics and specialist mages prepare 1 additional domain or school spell at each spell level. Bonus spell points are determined as described in Unearthed Arcana. Sorcerers and favoured souls use thier standard spells known charts, and MP as per Unearthed Arcana. 1st 3 11th 97 2nd 5 12th 115 3rd 8 13th 131 4th 14 14th 149 5th 19 15th 165 6th 29 16th 183 7th 37 17th 199 8th 51 18th 217 9th 63 19th 233 10th 81 20th 249 Psions would work exactly like they do in the XPH, whereas eruidites would again use the above progression (rather than the one in Dragon) for their unique powers per day (which they ought to anyways, since erudites flat-out kick psions in the arse, discipline or not).
Xeviat-DM 05-12-05, 05:11 PM	Jack, your ideas are well constructed. I'm really enjoying the recent revival of spell point ideas, we're starting to get some interesting ideas going. You also suggested something that easily solves one of my biggest problems with my classes in my setting. I've also decided to cut down my classes. I have Wizard, Shaman (Cleric), Sorcerer, and Psion (Name is being changed to suit the Ki oriented role it has in my setting). I will be using spell points for all of the classes, but the Wizard and Shaman are preparation while Sorcerer and Psion are spontanious. Here's how it works. The Wizard and Shaman use the current wizard spells per day chart as their preparation slots; you do not gain additional preparation slots for high ability scores. Specialist wizards gain an additional slot per level for their school, while Shaman are considered to have their domain spells prepared at all times (they cannot spontaniously convert cure/inflict spells any longer, only healing/destruction domain shaman get that). I solved the druid vs. cleric issue with my shaman through domains. Druidic domains, as in natural domains, are Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, and Water, and the remaining domains are Cleric domains. The shaman has a d6 HD and 4 skill points per level, most domains alter their skill sets, and all shaman get a spirit companion that is augmented by one's domains. Wizards use Int primarily, Shaman use Wis, and Sorcerers use Cha. Psions will use any of the seven ability scores in my system (added Agility), but each ability score is tied to an element instead of a discipline (for consistancy, there are the 8 schools of magic and that's it; wizards are primarily concerned with school, shaman with alignment, and sorcerers/psions with element). Roughly, both spontanious and preparation casters have the same number of spells per level known. To give a benefit back to spontanious casters, spontanious casters can spontaniously apply metamagic effects, while preparation casters have to prepare a spell with the metamagic feat. Additionally, spontanious casters spells are considered spell-like abilities; they never have somatic, verbal, material, or focus components (though material components cost 1/5th gp in xp and focus components cost 1/25th gp in xp per casting). Spellcraft still picks up use of spell-like abilities. But I solved the MP issue differently. I switched to a Mana Die system. Sorcerer/Psion get a d12 while Wizards/Shaman get a d10. If you'd like to see more of a difference, do a d12 and d8. I use 12 and 10 because I give a mana die to all characters (bard/psychic warrior get d8, though they're PrC format; paladin/ranger/rogue get d6, pal/rgr are PrC; and fighter/barbarian get d4). Monk would get a d6, but my psychic warrior and monk class are one in the same. I also have removed x/day spell like abilities entirely, gave creature hd corresponding MD, and make spell like abilities cost mp. Because of all these oddities, I'm not sure if all characters and creatures should use the same ability score to determine their bonus MP. I'm currently considering making knowledge and spellcraft much more important in spellcasting to give Intelligence a univeral requirement, Wis modifier will apply to MD to determine MP just like con and HD and HP, and Cha will apply to spell save DCs. But I did test the MD system. The pure casters have more mp at lower levels and less at higher levels compared to the XPH Psion, a pay off for the versatility. The partial casters have quite a bit more mp now. Overall all of these changes work towards a slight power down but flavor up of the casters. Your post really helped me to consolidate my ideas. Thanks. PS: Thelon, the 3 spells known per spell level is pretty in line with the XPH psion's structure, though it just grants powers known up to a maximum spell level. One thing that Jack would need to do is use an augmentation system, otherwise the lower number of spells known doesn't work.
Thelon Fairblade 05-13-05, 10:03 AM	Psions have 5 1st and 4 of nearly every other level, plus (as you pointed out) augmentation. Sorcerers have 5/5/4/4/4, then 3s. Hence my comment about being low on powers known. Are these more of a "daily spell list" kind of thing, or really just "I know only 3 spells of first level"?
Jack Daniel 05-13-05, 03:37 PM	I think that having labeled the table "Prepared Spells Per Day" should give that one dead away.