Spell Points with other classes not mentioned in UA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spell Points with other classes not mentioned in UA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
andinel
10-20-06, 08:00 PM I'm talking specifically about the ones in the Complete (Arcane and Divine, not Mage - I don't have it yet) books and the Artificer (from ECS).

My best idea would be that Artificers get spell points as an average between Bards and Wizards (since Infusions only go up to 6th level, and they get them from 1st level), Warmages get spell points as Sorcerers, Wu Jens get spell points as Wizards, and all of the divine classes (Favored Soul, Shugenja, and Spirit Shaman) get points as Sorcerers.

The Artificer table might look like this:
Lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
SP 2 3 4 8 11 15 21 27 36 45 55 65 77 87 99 112 126 141 157 170

Would that be right?

On another, completely unrelated note, how can I hide text on the boards here?
theotherdraxen
10-20-06, 11:33 PM I don't think there's any reason to give an Artificer any different amount of spell points from a bard: 0th level spells do not count for or against your spell points. Artificers are, spell progression wise, Bards without 0th level spells.

Of course, I could be wrong, and it is 11:30...

You can hide text by writing:
[ sblock] remove the spaces, and you're set. [/ sblock]
andinel
10-21-06, 12:05 AM I don't think there's any reason to give an Artificer any different amount of spell points from a bard
The problem here is that Bards don't actually get 1st level spells until 3rd level, when they get their first spell point (otherwise they have 0 points for 1st and 2nd level), and artificers have 1st level infusions from the start.

It seems kind of unfair to give artificers spell slots when no other class has that, so I'm back to the spell point problem.
theotherdraxen
10-21-06, 10:37 AM The problem here is that Bards don't actually get 1st level spells until 3rd level, when they get their first spell point (otherwise they have 0 points for 1st and 2nd level), and artificers have 1st level infusions from the start.
Oh. So I was wrong. The Artificer starts out with as many spells (not counting 0) as a 4th level bard, but end up with just as many spells as a 20th.
So they should start out with 5 SP, and end up with 144. I'd advise uding the bards progression, start it out at 4th level, and just hold the artificer back at 4th, 9th, 14, and 19th level.
Or you could find some kind of medium where they just don't gain quite as many points every time they go up a level.
Glensather
10-26-06, 01:05 AM Here's one: What about Duskblades?
andinel
10-26-06, 01:28 AM Those are difficult, considering that they get 10 spells per day for the lower levels. For Paladins, Rangers, and Bards, just adding the spell points that it would cost to cast each spell they could of the highest level possible adds up to the value in UA. However, with Wizards, Druids, Clerics, and Sorcs, this doesn't work, and I can't find any pattern. With the sorcerers, I can use a formula of 3 of each spell of each level plus 3 1st level spells and 1 2nd level spell. The other classes, though, can use 2 of each spell level per day, then another each of levels 1 through 8, then 3 1st and 1 2nd level spell.

I'm not exactly sure how to transfer this over to other classes though.
andinel
11-06-06, 01:59 AM I think I've figured this out. Looking at the way UA sets it up, classes that don't get a full 9-level spell progression get full spell points for all their spells. Try it with the bard and you'll see that their spells add up to 144 spell points: exactly the value given in UA for a lvl 20 bard.

I just applied this to the Artificer and Duskblade, and it turned out just fine, with the Artificer having a total of 144 SP and the Duskblade having 200 SP.
babysamurai
11-06-06, 05:17 AM You simply multiply the number of slots they have of a specific spell level by the spell point cost of spells of that level, and than add them all up.

Now that I’ve gone Spell Point, I don’t know if I will ever return to Vancian-action.

Looking over the bard, at 20th level it has 144 spell points, and 4 slots per spell level is where we have to translate from. Adding up the value of those slots leads us to 144.

4 x 11 = 44
4 x 9 = 36
4 x 7 = 28
4 x 5 = 20
4 x 3 = 12
4 x 1 = 4

Total = 144

So Duskblade can be worked out level by level doing the same sort of thing. Eg, 20th level = (6x9 = 54) + (8x7 = 56) + (10x5 = 50) + (10x3 = 30) plus (10x1 = 10) = 200.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
andinel 10-20-06, 08:00 PM	I'm talking specifically about the ones in the Complete (Arcane and Divine, not Mage - I don't have it yet) books and the Artificer (from ECS). My best idea would be that Artificers get spell points as an average between Bards and Wizards (since Infusions only go up to 6th level, and they get them from 1st level), Warmages get spell points as Sorcerers, Wu Jens get spell points as Wizards, and all of the divine classes (Favored Soul, Shugenja, and Spirit Shaman) get points as Sorcerers. The Artificer table might look like this: Lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 SP 2 3 4 8 11 15 21 27 36 45 55 65 77 87 99 112 126 141 157 170 Would that be right? On another, completely unrelated note, how can I hide text on the boards here?
theotherdraxen 10-20-06, 11:33 PM	I don't think there's any reason to give an Artificer any different amount of spell points from a bard: 0th level spells do not count for or against your spell points. Artificers are, spell progression wise, Bards without 0th level spells. Of course, I could be wrong, and it is 11:30... You can hide text by writing: [ sblock] remove the spaces, and you're set. [/ sblock]
andinel 10-21-06, 12:05 AM	I don't think there's any reason to give an Artificer any different amount of spell points from a bard The problem here is that Bards don't actually get 1st level spells until 3rd level, when they get their first spell point (otherwise they have 0 points for 1st and 2nd level), and artificers have 1st level infusions from the start. It seems kind of unfair to give artificers spell slots when no other class has that, so I'm back to the spell point problem.
theotherdraxen 10-21-06, 10:37 AM	The problem here is that Bards don't actually get 1st level spells until 3rd level, when they get their first spell point (otherwise they have 0 points for 1st and 2nd level), and artificers have 1st level infusions from the start. Oh. So I was wrong. The Artificer starts out with as many spells (not counting 0) as a 4th level bard, but end up with just as many spells as a 20th. So they should start out with 5 SP, and end up with 144. I'd advise uding the bards progression, start it out at 4th level, and just hold the artificer back at 4th, 9th, 14, and 19th level. Or you could find some kind of medium where they just don't gain quite as many points every time they go up a level.
Glensather 10-26-06, 01:05 AM	Here's one: What about Duskblades?
andinel 10-26-06, 01:28 AM	Those are difficult, considering that they get 10 spells per day for the lower levels. For Paladins, Rangers, and Bards, just adding the spell points that it would cost to cast each spell they could of the highest level possible adds up to the value in UA. However, with Wizards, Druids, Clerics, and Sorcs, this doesn't work, and I can't find any pattern. With the sorcerers, I can use a formula of 3 of each spell of each level plus 3 1st level spells and 1 2nd level spell. The other classes, though, can use 2 of each spell level per day, then another each of levels 1 through 8, then 3 1st and 1 2nd level spell. I'm not exactly sure how to transfer this over to other classes though.
andinel 11-06-06, 01:59 AM	I think I've figured this out. Looking at the way UA sets it up, classes that don't get a full 9-level spell progression get full spell points for all their spells. Try it with the bard and you'll see that their spells add up to 144 spell points: exactly the value given in UA for a lvl 20 bard. I just applied this to the Artificer and Duskblade, and it turned out just fine, with the Artificer having a total of 144 SP and the Duskblade having 200 SP.
babysamurai 11-06-06, 05:17 AM	You simply multiply the number of slots they have of a specific spell level by the spell point cost of spells of that level, and than add them all up. Now that I’ve gone Spell Point, I don’t know if I will ever return to Vancian-action. Looking over the bard, at 20th level it has 144 spell points, and 4 slots per spell level is where we have to translate from. Adding up the value of those slots leads us to 144. 4 x 11 = 44 4 x 9 = 36 4 x 7 = 28 4 x 5 = 20 4 x 3 = 12 4 x 1 = 4 Total = 144 So Duskblade can be worked out level by level doing the same sort of thing. Eg, 20th level = (6x9 = 54) + (8x7 = 56) + (10x5 = 50) + (10x3 = 30) plus (10x1 = 10) = 200.