Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lady Maedhros 02-02-06, 09:20 PM	So there's an optional rule floating around that makes elemental spells - fireball, cone of cold, et cetera - strictly nonmagical once evoked. Thus, the "magic" part of lightning bolt is creating the lightning; once you've created it, it's just an arc of electricity and exists under its own power. Which means that a fireball ignores spell resistance and antimagic fields. This obviously makes evokers stronger, and makes many monsters, particularly typed monsters with SR (like dragons) easier to kill. Still, it appeals to me from a theory perspective (why should spell resistance protect you against a blizzard when it wouldn't protect you from a blizzard?) and from a function perspective (because i DESPISE save-or-die spells, and this variant discourages their use). So, has anyone used this variant? How did it turn out? I'd like to know if this is feasable before i go breaking my game. :)
Grishnor 02-02-06, 11:14 PM	I've never heard of that variant, but now that I have I despise it. Why on earth would someone make it easier for casters to kill things? Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. If casting MAGIC spells doesn't apply to spell resistance whats the point of it then? A magically created lightning bolt isn't REAL lighting, its created and thus spell resistance will defend against it.
Lady Maedhros 02-03-06, 01:55 AM	1) Evokers are the least dangerous of mages, coming in behind Conjurers Illusionists Enchanters Transmuters Necromancers Abjurers in roughly that order of power. Even divination arguably has more utility. Consider the number of save-or-dies in each school of magic. Consider the utility inherent in the ability to summon and gate any creature with any spell or spell-like ability you can weasel past your DM. Consider the number of no-save-at-all spells in other schools. The Evocation school has zero (0) save-or-dies. The Evocation school has one (1) high-level spell that doesn't allow a save at all. Evocation does not include Power Word spells, Wierd, Wail of the Banshee, or Time Stop. 2) At high levels, when wizards are at their most powerful, evasion is stupidly easy to come by, and everyone and their mother has energy resistance above and beyond any spell resistance they might possess. This is really not the gamebreaking insanity that you think it is. Anything that discourages players from using spells like Wierd actually reduces the unholy power of arcane casters by increasing the opportunity cost of save-or-die spells. I'd still like to hear from someone who's tried it and has some experience to add to the theorycraft here, though.
Xeviat-DM 02-03-06, 04:36 AM	I've played it, and it works wonderfully. In addition to changing save or die spells to save or be reduced to 0 hp, and fort saves to resist death in negative HP (with no inherrent negative HP cap), spells have been tonned down in over all power without actually hurting wizards.
RaspK FOG 02-03-06, 10:44 AM	Well, it works wonderfully some of the time; I generally prefer to change rules in regard to spell resistance, though, making them akin to turn resistance (in other words, providing a resistance bonus on saving throws; in case of spells with no saving throw normally allowed, the creature affected is allowed to make a SR check). This might be a little more complex, but I like it more all in all.
Lina_Inverse 02-05-06, 04:22 AM	I've never heard of that variant, but now that I have I despise it. Why on earth would someone make it easier for casters to kill things? Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. If casting MAGIC spells doesn't apply to spell resistance whats the point of it then? A magically created lightning bolt isn't REAL lighting, its created and thus spell resistance will defend against it. It wouldnt actully make wizards more powerful. It would make nukes more powerful. Since everyone uses save or dies, the net result is nukes become intresting. I use it, it makes nukes a viable choice instead of every wizard useing save or dies exclusively. Its so much more fun to cast fireball:D