Spellcaster, what a sorcerer was meant to be? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spellcaster, what a sorcerer was meant to be? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lysiander
02-19-04, 04:29 AM Well, I just got my copy and started running through the pages. I was especially interested in the expert and stubled across the spellcaster class. Now... could anyone explain to me where the difference between the sorcerer and this one is?

I did a little comparison.
Same HD, same saves, same BAB.
Skills: Spellcaster is even better here, freedom of choice.. jummy.
Weapons: a bit worse, but most people carry one weapon anyway.. .
Spells: Spellcaster gains one spell less in total to cast. Beyond that, the progression is the same.
Spells Known: exactly the same at any given level.
Special features: Familiar removed, but still possible to take. Bonus feats in a decent progression.

The finall crack.. you even get to choose your prime casting stat.

Bottomline, looks like wizards finally came up with a Sorcerer that's up to spec in every way. What do you guys think? Did I miss something?

P.S.: Hope I don't violate any CoC here, if I do, feel free to contact me or edit stuff out.
Banpai
02-19-04, 05:14 AM I was surprised too, although I don´t really like this chars the idea is nice but then the Sorcerer still does not have a reason to stay in his class exept for bonus feats. You can see farly easy if you create a Gestalt that almost noone will take 20 Levels of Sor chause is simply makes no sense to do so at all. Fighter is somehow similar but the fact that you need a certain level of Fighter + the Fact that certain feats don´t become available until a higher level makes it even more usefull. To say it clear and loud the Sorc did not have a reason to stay in his class befor 3.0 and after but i ask you would it really ruin the Wizard if you would strip the Sor of his Familiar give Eshew materials for Sorcerer Spells only and give a Metamagic Feat (not item creation) at 5 level and every five level later?
DarkThoughts24
02-19-04, 06:57 AM :eek:

ok spellcasters can make arcane casters who can cast both fireball and cure spells, it give the spellcaster far more potency as a party member. at 9th level spells they can do wish true res and have evasion. consider the potency of the spellcaster heavily.
Lysiander
02-19-04, 12:12 PM ok spellcasters can make arcane casters who can cast both fireball and cure spells, it give the spellcaster far more potency as a party member. at 9th level spells they can do wish true res and have evasion. consider the potency of the spellcaster heavily.

That's not the way I read that class. The way I see it, the spellcaster is basically a sum up of the casting classes. The Player still has to decide whenever to be arcane or divine. (Arcana means sorcerer, divine cleric with spontaenous casting.) The player can still multiclass to another spellcaster but with a different focus. (Read, equivalent to a wizard/ cleric character.)
You don't get to choose from divine and arcane spelllists, nor do you increase arcane casterlevel if you take divine levels.

The thing is kinda badly phrased tho.
DarkThoughts24
02-19-04, 07:40 PM no it reads plain as day "you chose spells form thecleric druid bard wizard/sorceror lists. you chose your type (arcane or divine) and it has NO impact on your choice in spells only in how you use items and armor penalties
stone_dog
02-19-04, 11:03 PM Well, the main difference is that the way it is set up, if there are spellcasters there are no clerics, wizards, sorcerers etc. That is why a spell caster is a touch better than a sorcerer.

I would even go so far as to house rule that if you are using spell casters there is no such difference as arcane and divine. All such spells are simply magic and have a failure by armor type.

Arcana Unearthed does this. All magic is the same and it just so happens that some priests learn magic to help tend to their faithful.

It would be a neat two player gestalt game though. One Expert/Spellcaster and the other warrior/expert. Sounds like Fafrd and the Grey Mouser to me!
DarkThoughts24
02-20-04, 07:11 AM yeah if i sound critical of spellcaster its because few people get the sheer power in the generic classes give the seeming uberness of the gestalt. if i knew a player who'd make an appealing characters from it, i would use them in the quickness

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lysiander 02-19-04, 04:29 AM	Well, I just got my copy and started running through the pages. I was especially interested in the expert and stubled across the spellcaster class. Now... could anyone explain to me where the difference between the sorcerer and this one is? I did a little comparison. Same HD, same saves, same BAB. Skills: Spellcaster is even better here, freedom of choice.. jummy. Weapons: a bit worse, but most people carry one weapon anyway.. . Spells: Spellcaster gains one spell less in total to cast. Beyond that, the progression is the same. Spells Known: exactly the same at any given level. Special features: Familiar removed, but still possible to take. Bonus feats in a decent progression. The finall crack.. you even get to choose your prime casting stat. Bottomline, looks like wizards finally came up with a Sorcerer that's up to spec in every way. What do you guys think? Did I miss something? P.S.: Hope I don't violate any CoC here, if I do, feel free to contact me or edit stuff out.
Banpai 02-19-04, 05:14 AM	I was surprised too, although I don´t really like this chars the idea is nice but then the Sorcerer still does not have a reason to stay in his class exept for bonus feats. You can see farly easy if you create a Gestalt that almost noone will take 20 Levels of Sor chause is simply makes no sense to do so at all. Fighter is somehow similar but the fact that you need a certain level of Fighter + the Fact that certain feats don´t become available until a higher level makes it even more usefull. To say it clear and loud the Sorc did not have a reason to stay in his class befor 3.0 and after but i ask you would it really ruin the Wizard if you would strip the Sor of his Familiar give Eshew materials for Sorcerer Spells only and give a Metamagic Feat (not item creation) at 5 level and every five level later?
DarkThoughts24 02-19-04, 06:57 AM	:eek: ok spellcasters can make arcane casters who can cast both fireball and cure spells, it give the spellcaster far more potency as a party member. at 9th level spells they can do wish true res and have evasion. consider the potency of the spellcaster heavily.
Lysiander 02-19-04, 12:12 PM	ok spellcasters can make arcane casters who can cast both fireball and cure spells, it give the spellcaster far more potency as a party member. at 9th level spells they can do wish true res and have evasion. consider the potency of the spellcaster heavily. That's not the way I read that class. The way I see it, the spellcaster is basically a sum up of the casting classes. The Player still has to decide whenever to be arcane or divine. (Arcana means sorcerer, divine cleric with spontaenous casting.) The player can still multiclass to another spellcaster but with a different focus. (Read, equivalent to a wizard/ cleric character.) You don't get to choose from divine and arcane spelllists, nor do you increase arcane casterlevel if you take divine levels. The thing is kinda badly phrased tho.
DarkThoughts24 02-19-04, 07:40 PM	no it reads plain as day "you chose spells form thecleric druid bard wizard/sorceror lists. you chose your type (arcane or divine) and it has NO impact on your choice in spells only in how you use items and armor penalties
stone_dog 02-19-04, 11:03 PM	Well, the main difference is that the way it is set up, if there are spellcasters there are no clerics, wizards, sorcerers etc. That is why a spell caster is a touch better than a sorcerer. I would even go so far as to house rule that if you are using spell casters there is no such difference as arcane and divine. All such spells are simply magic and have a failure by armor type. Arcana Unearthed does this. All magic is the same and it just so happens that some priests learn magic to help tend to their faithful. It would be a neat two player gestalt game though. One Expert/Spellcaster and the other warrior/expert. Sounds like Fafrd and the Grey Mouser to me!
DarkThoughts24 02-20-04, 07:11 AM	yeah if i sound critical of spellcaster its because few people get the sheer power in the generic classes give the seeming uberness of the gestalt. if i knew a player who'd make an appealing characters from it, i would use them in the quickness