Spellcasters and Equipment: A new way of doing things? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spellcasters and Equipment: A new way of doing things? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeviat-DM
02-15-07, 04:38 PM One thing I've begun to notice in the game is that spellcasters require much less equipment than non-casters. Sure, spellcasters have great equipment to use, but a warrior needs a magic weapon, while a spellcaster's magical ability is the same regardless (aside from metamagic rods).

But this seems odd, especially when one considers the way spellcasters work in fiction. In fiction, most casters use a staff or a wand as a focus, not a spell battery.

So, I'm working off of the warlock principal here. Casters could have a blast that they an use at will, just like a warrior has a fist they can use at will. Wands and staffs, then, would increase the damage of this blast. To make things even more comprable to non-casters, the caster's blast could be 1d6+ability modifier (int for wizards, cha for sorcerers), and they could gain additional dice as they gain levels. The wands could change damage type, apply enhancement bonuses, or many other things.

I'm just keeping my mind open to other possible ways of balancing casters and non-casters. The Warlock is seeming more and more like the best solution.
Valoy_Muniz
02-16-07, 09:21 AM I know wiz spend more for there stuff then a fighter does. At the cost of 100g per spell level to add a spell that adds up fast. Also if you make them keep buying new spell compont pouches and keep track of compont cost it will even out with out giving them something new.
Flamewarrior
02-16-07, 06:39 PM Valoy_Muniz: unfortunately, just wizards pay at all to learn spells, and 2 of the other "big five" classes (cleric and druid) add everything to their lists without any cost (by the way, druids can get by quite well with no equipment at all).

Xeviat-DM: first, even in a core-only game with just a houserule like this, I don't think an at-will item of such little damage would get any use with nova-like effects available and generally able to handle things more than well, unless spellcasters got bonuses like those from physical combatants, in which case you'd have not only too much similarity but also less balance (since noncasters wouldn't have gained nova tactics); and, worse, any game with Complete Mage already has at-will 9d6 blasts, trivialising this all. A close idea that comes to my mind would be something like reducing caster levels across the board, and making focus items per magic school for giving them back: this way, you'd choose your extra equipment for school, and not be totally crippled without those pieces (In fact, in the legends they often were completely crippled, but we don't want this, right?). Also: since I may have looked a little bleak, pardon me if I misunderstood something.

And if your idea has to do with restricting spell casters, you may want to look at this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=740322. I'd be thankful for your feedback. See later.
Xeviat-DM
02-26-07, 06:19 PM A fighter is almost crippled if you sunder their weapon.

I'm not talking about making a simple application to the core rules, I'm talking about the beginnings of a complete rewrite. I'm talking about resorting to a Warlock like casting system for all casters, and having enhanced wands to amplify a caster's power (just like a sword amplifies the power of a fighter's unarmed melee attack).
bartleby42
02-26-07, 09:32 PM It is an interesting idea.

I'm very timid when it comes to major alterations but I think that you can make a "tack on rule" based vaugely on Shadowrun's magic system.

How about this:

-Change all spells, 1st level and higher, that have a casting time of 1 standard action or longer so they also have the component of AF or DF (arcane or divine focus respectively)*

-Add equipment-
Arcane Focus- cost=100 x (spell level)^2
Divine Focus- cost=100 x (spell level)^2

-Change the feat Spell Mastery to include the phrase "When casting the chosen spell you do not need an Arcane or Divine focus"

This gives adds a little to the cost of being a caster without being overbearing, the main problem is at first level, and it allow for the casters to be equipment dependent. You have the fluff of "Oh no! Without my ash wand I cannot use 3rd circle magic!" while not having to make large alterations.

If you wanted the foci to be much more specific you could make it:
Arcane Focus-cost=50x(spell level)^2x(# of schools of magic)^2
and the same for Divine, thus making a wand or what have you nessacary for each school and spell level. Or one very expensive wand.... But this is a larger nerf and begins to dig deeply into the pockets of casters.

Hope this helps.
Krusk
02-27-07, 11:50 AM What if you were to grant them one of their new spells each level as a spell like ability so long as they have an rod/staff to use it.

maybe every even level they gain the ability to cast a spell as a spell like ability. But they need a more powerful staff for each level of spell it plans to cast. Maybe the magical energy will shatter a lesser staff. if youve got a tier 5 staff, and attempt a 6th level SLA you have a 50% chance of it shattering after the casting. a 7th level SLA has a 75% chance to shatter and everything higher has a 100%.

This staff can be really expensive, maybe the level of spell it can cast^2 gp.

Then you can but specialty staff's, like evocation staff. It lets you use any evocation spell with +1 caster level along with normal benifits.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 02-15-07, 04:38 PM	One thing I've begun to notice in the game is that spellcasters require much less equipment than non-casters. Sure, spellcasters have great equipment to use, but a warrior needs a magic weapon, while a spellcaster's magical ability is the same regardless (aside from metamagic rods). But this seems odd, especially when one considers the way spellcasters work in fiction. In fiction, most casters use a staff or a wand as a focus, not a spell battery. So, I'm working off of the warlock principal here. Casters could have a blast that they an use at will, just like a warrior has a fist they can use at will. Wands and staffs, then, would increase the damage of this blast. To make things even more comprable to non-casters, the caster's blast could be 1d6+ability modifier (int for wizards, cha for sorcerers), and they could gain additional dice as they gain levels. The wands could change damage type, apply enhancement bonuses, or many other things. I'm just keeping my mind open to other possible ways of balancing casters and non-casters. The Warlock is seeming more and more like the best solution.
Valoy_Muniz 02-16-07, 09:21 AM	I know wiz spend more for there stuff then a fighter does. At the cost of 100g per spell level to add a spell that adds up fast. Also if you make them keep buying new spell compont pouches and keep track of compont cost it will even out with out giving them something new.
Flamewarrior 02-16-07, 06:39 PM	Valoy_Muniz: unfortunately, just wizards pay at all to learn spells, and 2 of the other "big five" classes (cleric and druid) add everything to their lists without any cost (by the way, druids can get by quite well with no equipment at all). Xeviat-DM: first, even in a core-only game with just a houserule like this, I don't think an at-will item of such little damage would get any use with nova-like effects available and generally able to handle things more than well, unless spellcasters got bonuses like those from physical combatants, in which case you'd have not only too much similarity but also less balance (since noncasters wouldn't have gained nova tactics); and, worse, any game with Complete Mage already has at-will 9d6 blasts, trivialising this all. A close idea that comes to my mind would be something like reducing caster levels across the board, and making focus items per magic school for giving them back: this way, you'd choose your extra equipment for school, and not be totally crippled without those pieces (In fact, in the legends they often were completely crippled, but we don't want this, right?). Also: since I may have looked a little bleak, pardon me if I misunderstood something. And if your idea has to do with restricting spell casters, you may want to look at this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=740322. I'd be thankful for your feedback. See later.
Xeviat-DM 02-26-07, 06:19 PM	A fighter is almost crippled if you sunder their weapon. I'm not talking about making a simple application to the core rules, I'm talking about the beginnings of a complete rewrite. I'm talking about resorting to a Warlock like casting system for all casters, and having enhanced wands to amplify a caster's power (just like a sword amplifies the power of a fighter's unarmed melee attack).
bartleby42 02-26-07, 09:32 PM	It is an interesting idea. I'm very timid when it comes to major alterations but I think that you can make a "tack on rule" based vaugely on Shadowrun's magic system. How about this: -Change all spells, 1st level and higher, that have a casting time of 1 standard action or longer so they also have the component of AF or DF (arcane or divine focus respectively)* -Add equipment- Arcane Focus- cost=100 x (spell level)^2 Divine Focus- cost=100 x (spell level)^2 -Change the feat Spell Mastery to include the phrase "When casting the chosen spell you do not need an Arcane or Divine focus" This gives adds a little to the cost of being a caster without being overbearing, the main problem is at first level, and it allow for the casters to be equipment dependent. You have the fluff of "Oh no! Without my ash wand I cannot use 3rd circle magic!" while not having to make large alterations. If you wanted the foci to be much more specific you could make it: Arcane Focus-cost=50x(spell level)^2x(# of schools of magic)^2 and the same for Divine, thus making a wand or what have you nessacary for each school and spell level. Or one very expensive wand.... But this is a larger nerf and begins to dig deeply into the pockets of casters. Hope this helps.
Krusk 02-27-07, 11:50 AM	What if you were to grant them one of their new spells each level as a spell like ability so long as they have an rod/staff to use it. maybe every even level they gain the ability to cast a spell as a spell like ability. But they need a more powerful staff for each level of spell it plans to cast. Maybe the magical energy will shatter a lesser staff. if youve got a tier 5 staff, and attempt a 6th level SLA you have a 50% chance of it shattering after the casting. a 7th level SLA has a 75% chance to shatter and everything higher has a 100%. This staff can be really expensive, maybe the level of spell it can cast^2 gp. Then you can but specialty staff's, like evocation staff. It lets you use any evocation spell with +1 caster level along with normal benifits.