Spellcasting Option [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spellcasting Option [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daniel Sutton
07-04-07, 08:29 PM I thought it would be interesting if there was a way to combine the usefulness of a wizard with the staying power of a warlock in a way that was fun without being overpowered. I don't like the idea of characters running out of usefulness, although I understand the importance of resource conservation. To achieve this, I was thought to use the concept of "tapping" from M:tG, although I'll probably call it by another name. The basic premise is this: any prepared spell may be tapped to produce a minor effect. It may, alternately, be expended to produce a greater effect. Expending a spell removes it from memory; it's gone just like it would be in the normal rules, and you can't tap it for the minor effect anymore. As a full round action, you may untap all prepared spells.
To make this work, the number of spells preparable would have to be adjusted. Too few, and it's too easy for a spellcaster to run out of spells, and you have the same problem I was trying to fix. Too many spells, and you can tap your way through all problems.

Example spell:
Magic Missile
Creates one or more missiles that deal 1d4+1 damage each.
T: Creates one missile.
Expend: Creates one missile for every two caster levels, up to a maximum of five.

So in this case, the expended version does just what magic missile allready does, but you can tap it all day to send out 1d4+1 pellets. Of course, you can do this at most every other round unless you prepared two copies of this spell, but you can never cast it every round.

I'm not sure what kind of minor effect fire ball, for instance, could have, and I have no idea how to do healing magic so that it doesn't make damage meaningless. In this system, you'd start all battles with full health, no matter what, and that' isn't what I want! Maybe the damage to subdual conversion would work really well for this.
Rustmonster
07-04-07, 08:38 PM I thought it would be interesting if there was a way to combine the usefulness of a wizard with the staying power of a warlock in a way that was fun without being overpowered. I don't like the idea of characters running out of usefulness, although I understand the importance of resource conservation. To achieve this, I was thought to use the concept of "tapping" from M:tG, although I'll probably call it by another name. The basic premise is this: any prepared spell may be tapped to produce a minor effect. It may, alternately, be expended to produce a greater effect. Expending a spell removes it from memory; it's gone just like it would be in the normal rules, and you can't tap it for the minor effect anymore. As a full round action, you may untap all prepared spells.
To make this work, the number of spells preparable would have to be adjusted. Too few, and it's too easy for a spellcaster to run out of spells, and you have the same problem I was trying to fix. Too many spells, and you can tap your way through all problems.

Example spell:
Magic Missile
Creates one or more missiles that deal 1d4+1 damage each.
T: Creates one missile.
Expend: Creates one missile for every two caster levels, up to a maximum of five.

So in this case, the expended version does just what magic missile allready does, but you can tap it all day to send out 1d4+1 pellets. Of course, you can do this at most every other round unless you prepared two copies of this spell, but you can never cast it every round.

I'm not sure what kind of minor effect fire ball, for instance, could have, and I have no idea how to do healing magic so that it doesn't make damage meaningless. In this system, you'd start all battles with full health, no matter what, and that' isn't what I want! Maybe the damage to subdual conversion would work really well for this.

When do your lands untap?
Daniel Sutton
07-04-07, 09:08 PM To untap your lands, you have to travel to the appropriate biome, dance under the full moon wearing a cap of intellect and a smile, and then sacrifice the ranger's animal compainion. But since the house rule in question doesn't use land, and there's no actual way to tap land in the first place, this should not come up too often.
Rustmonster
07-05-07, 12:02 PM To untap your lands, you have to travel to the appropriate biome, dance under the full moon wearing a cap of intellect and a smile, and then sacrifice the ranger's animal compainion. But since the house rule in question doesn't use land, and there's no actual way to tap land in the first place, this should not come up too often.

Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky.
trapspringer
07-05-07, 01:03 PM Oh yea, and he seemed totally serious.

Neat idea. A lot like reserve feats but simplified. The problem is you'll have to hammer out an effect for every spell and that would take friggin' forever.

Why not set up a class with a somewhat limited spell list and this ability for the purposes of play testing?
Cheza
07-05-07, 05:49 PM I don't like it.

There seems to be no minimal level requirement to "tap" a spell. So as a 5th level mage you will be able to tap a 5d6 fireball every turn => unbalanced. For many other spells, this concept doesn't work.

I would rather recommend "buyback" instead of tapping. You may increase your spell level to be able to cast it again and again.
Daniel Sutton
07-05-07, 07:45 PM Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky.

I understood you were joking, and I was joking back. I didn't realize you meant "when do your spells untap." You spend a full round action to untap all spells.

I don't like it.

There seems to be no minimal level requirement to "tap" a spell. So as a 5th level mage you will be able to tap a 5d6 fireball every turn => unbalanced. For many other spells, this concept doesn't work.

I would rather recommend "buyback" instead of tapping. You may increase your spell level to be able to cast it again and again.

You would be unable to cast a spell that you couldn't cast normaly. And I agree that a 5d6 fireball every round (actually, every other round, since you'd have to untap the spell after you use it), would be unbalanced. The tap effects would have to all be effects that you can safely use almost constantly, so no tap for 5d6 ball of fiery doom; it'd be more like tap to do fire damage to a creature, and sacrifice the spell to do a fireball. But that doesn't feel right to me; fireball should be a fireball! And as one poster mention, reworking the existing spells would be extremely difficult to do. It would, in fact, be a lot easier to design a class from the ground up to work like this than to rework all the spells in the PHB to conform to a system they weren't designed for. It'd be easier with Arcana Unearthed, though; since they have hightened and diminished versions of all their spells.

So as I have had more time to reflect on this idea, I think it'd work better for a new class, than as a varient on the existing ones.
trapspringer
07-05-07, 11:31 PM ...

You will find people ignore obvious solutions in favor of pointing fingers. Just sayin'.
Tomkin
07-06-07, 12:23 AM I will refer you to the magic system in my sig, which is fairly close to what you're doing. Perhaps you could take your argument there in order to bump it back to the first page. Or just post anything, really. It's a shame to see it die.
Daniel Sutton
07-06-07, 12:47 AM Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky.

I apoligize for being sarcastic in my response. I didn't mean to actually come off as mean spirited.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daniel Sutton 07-04-07, 08:29 PM	I thought it would be interesting if there was a way to combine the usefulness of a wizard with the staying power of a warlock in a way that was fun without being overpowered. I don't like the idea of characters running out of usefulness, although I understand the importance of resource conservation. To achieve this, I was thought to use the concept of "tapping" from M:tG, although I'll probably call it by another name. The basic premise is this: any prepared spell may be tapped to produce a minor effect. It may, alternately, be expended to produce a greater effect. Expending a spell removes it from memory; it's gone just like it would be in the normal rules, and you can't tap it for the minor effect anymore. As a full round action, you may untap all prepared spells. To make this work, the number of spells preparable would have to be adjusted. Too few, and it's too easy for a spellcaster to run out of spells, and you have the same problem I was trying to fix. Too many spells, and you can tap your way through all problems. Example spell: Magic Missile Creates one or more missiles that deal 1d4+1 damage each. T: Creates one missile. Expend: Creates one missile for every two caster levels, up to a maximum of five. So in this case, the expended version does just what magic missile allready does, but you can tap it all day to send out 1d4+1 pellets. Of course, you can do this at most every other round unless you prepared two copies of this spell, but you can never cast it every round. I'm not sure what kind of minor effect fire ball, for instance, could have, and I have no idea how to do healing magic so that it doesn't make damage meaningless. In this system, you'd start all battles with full health, no matter what, and that' isn't what I want! Maybe the damage to subdual conversion would work really well for this.
Rustmonster 07-04-07, 08:38 PM	I thought it would be interesting if there was a way to combine the usefulness of a wizard with the staying power of a warlock in a way that was fun without being overpowered. I don't like the idea of characters running out of usefulness, although I understand the importance of resource conservation. To achieve this, I was thought to use the concept of "tapping" from M:tG, although I'll probably call it by another name. The basic premise is this: any prepared spell may be tapped to produce a minor effect. It may, alternately, be expended to produce a greater effect. Expending a spell removes it from memory; it's gone just like it would be in the normal rules, and you can't tap it for the minor effect anymore. As a full round action, you may untap all prepared spells. To make this work, the number of spells preparable would have to be adjusted. Too few, and it's too easy for a spellcaster to run out of spells, and you have the same problem I was trying to fix. Too many spells, and you can tap your way through all problems. Example spell: Magic Missile Creates one or more missiles that deal 1d4+1 damage each. T: Creates one missile. Expend: Creates one missile for every two caster levels, up to a maximum of five. So in this case, the expended version does just what magic missile allready does, but you can tap it all day to send out 1d4+1 pellets. Of course, you can do this at most every other round unless you prepared two copies of this spell, but you can never cast it every round. I'm not sure what kind of minor effect fire ball, for instance, could have, and I have no idea how to do healing magic so that it doesn't make damage meaningless. In this system, you'd start all battles with full health, no matter what, and that' isn't what I want! Maybe the damage to subdual conversion would work really well for this. When do your lands untap?
Daniel Sutton 07-04-07, 09:08 PM	To untap your lands, you have to travel to the appropriate biome, dance under the full moon wearing a cap of intellect and a smile, and then sacrifice the ranger's animal compainion. But since the house rule in question doesn't use land, and there's no actual way to tap land in the first place, this should not come up too often.
Rustmonster 07-05-07, 12:02 PM	To untap your lands, you have to travel to the appropriate biome, dance under the full moon wearing a cap of intellect and a smile, and then sacrifice the ranger's animal compainion. But since the house rule in question doesn't use land, and there's no actual way to tap land in the first place, this should not come up too often. Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle. EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky.
trapspringer 07-05-07, 01:03 PM	Oh yea, and he seemed totally serious. Neat idea. A lot like reserve feats but simplified. The problem is you'll have to hammer out an effect for every spell and that would take friggin' forever. Why not set up a class with a somewhat limited spell list and this ability for the purposes of play testing?
Cheza 07-05-07, 05:49 PM	I don't like it. There seems to be no minimal level requirement to "tap" a spell. So as a 5th level mage you will be able to tap a 5d6 fireball every turn => unbalanced. For many other spells, this concept doesn't work. I would rather recommend "buyback" instead of tapping. You may increase your spell level to be able to cast it again and again.
Daniel Sutton 07-05-07, 07:45 PM	Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle. EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky. I understood you were joking, and I was joking back. I didn't realize you meant "when do your spells untap." You spend a full round action to untap all spells. I don't like it. There seems to be no minimal level requirement to "tap" a spell. So as a 5th level mage you will be able to tap a 5d6 fireball every turn => unbalanced. For many other spells, this concept doesn't work. I would rather recommend "buyback" instead of tapping. You may increase your spell level to be able to cast it again and again. You would be unable to cast a spell that you couldn't cast normaly. And I agree that a 5d6 fireball every round (actually, every other round, since you'd have to untap the spell after you use it), would be unbalanced. The tap effects would have to all be effects that you can safely use almost constantly, so no tap for 5d6 ball of fiery doom; it'd be more like tap to do fire damage to a creature, and sacrifice the spell to do a fireball. But that doesn't feel right to me; fireball should be a fireball! And as one poster mention, reworking the existing spells would be extremely difficult to do. It would, in fact, be a lot easier to design a class from the ground up to work like this than to rework all the spells in the PHB to conform to a system they weren't designed for. It'd be easier with Arcana Unearthed, though; since they have hightened and diminished versions of all their spells. So as I have had more time to reflect on this idea, I think it'd work better for a new class, than as a varient on the existing ones.
trapspringer 07-05-07, 11:31 PM	... You will find people ignore obvious solutions in favor of pointing fingers. Just sayin'.
Tomkin 07-06-07, 12:23 AM	I will refer you to the magic system in my sig, which is fairly close to what you're doing. Perhaps you could take your argument there in order to bump it back to the first page. Or just post anything, really. It's a shame to see it die.
Daniel Sutton 07-06-07, 12:47 AM	Ya, I understood that. Jeez, I was makeing a joke. I thought you'd realize I meant when do your spells untap, but I guess I was too subtle. EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Full round action. You don't have to be snarky. I apoligize for being sarcastic in my response. I didn't mean to actually come off as mean spirited.