Spelless Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spelless Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darkuwa
08-13-06, 07:02 PM No spells, get both combat styles and fighter bonus feats at 5,10,15,20. Think thats balanced?
Salla
08-13-06, 09:39 PM I'd make it 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, just to spread out his class features a bit. Your version has them fall exactly in time with his favored enemy bonus increases.
Mr.Atheist
08-14-06, 01:19 AM I always wanted rangers without spells, it all seemed a bit gimmicky to me. Whenever I'd rp a ranger, I'd never quite know how to rp the spells he gets when he reaches the appropriate level (is it 5?).

I'd like to see a "spellless ranger" too. But I think you are going too much along the line of fighter, throwing him the fighter feats. Remember the ranger's flavor, someone who hunts or knows his way around the wilderness, not someone who trains martially.
When I think about it though, I have no idea what path you should take instead of spells.

Guess I'm not that helpful here. Just my two cents.
ChaoticGood
08-14-06, 01:56 AM Check out Complete Adventurer...
MerlintheTuna
08-14-06, 03:12 AM Check out Complete Adventurer...

Could've sworn it was Complete Warrior.
Wargamer
08-14-06, 04:24 AM Complete Warrior it is.
Pegasos989
08-15-06, 01:26 PM No spells, get both combat styles and fighter bonus feats at 5,10,15,20. Think thats balanced?

So, fighter get 11 feats, 1 better HD
Ranger get 10 combat feats, several non-combat feats, animal companion, many times better skills, hide in plain sight, favored enemy, woodland stride, evasion, etc. etc. etc.

No, I don't think it is balanced. I would recommend CWar version.
R99
08-15-06, 02:00 PM The CW version is, to put it as aloud on the boards, only slightly better than the dnd film.
Wargamer
08-15-06, 05:01 PM Gah! Mention not the existance of... of... of several thousand D&D-inspired images put through a projector at high speeds! Every time you mention that abomination, someone makes a Katana thread!
Voran
08-30-06, 04:48 AM Hmm, honestly, the progression of Ranger spells don't seem high enough for me to think doubling up on combat style feats would be an even trade. That being said, I'm still not quite sure the CWar version for spellless ranger was quite enough for the trade off either.
Jackmojo
08-30-06, 03:19 PM The other problem with the Complete Warrior version is if one was dropping spells for style reasons gaining wonky spell inspired abilities hardly acheives the goal.

Perhaps 2 combat styles and only 2 bonus feats, might end up too fighter-ish.

How about extra skillpoints and a few (3 or 4)bonus feats? That way they can focus more on some of the non-combat utility we like to get out of rangers.

Jack
Jerks
08-30-06, 11:57 PM Instead of granting both combat styles (which helps to differentiate rangers), I would add in

1) a progression of 4 Favored Environments (as found in Unearthed Arcana).
2) Increased speed +10 ft.
3) Reduction in range penalties to 1/2 normal for Spot and Listen checks.
4) Several bonus feats, choosen from feats that augment the chosen combat style and those that bonus a general woodsy lifestyle (being alert and moving through natural terrain). For example, Two-Weapon Pounce, Two-Weapon Rend, Greater ManyShot, Able Sniper, Quick Reconnoiter, Danger Sense, etc.

Of course all of these benefits would be limited to when wearing light armor (as is standard for most Ranger bonuses).
Eldwyn
09-02-06, 07:34 PM I like this idea. I almost always play ranger, and no matter which style I chose I never realy used the spells. That was what the cleric or druid were for. Heck, I usually never chose an animal companion as it would be difficult to adventure with. At least the way the rest of my party plays. I would need to keep him hjome or have a dedicated cleric just for my animal companion.
JediKnight_Wcu4
09-02-06, 10:18 PM Why not replace the spells with ToB maneuvers. Though you would actually have to figure out the maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, stances known. It might be an intersting set up.
NightRanger
09-02-06, 10:27 PM I like this idea. I almost always play ranger, and no matter which style I chose I never realy used the spells. That was what the cleric or druid were for. Heck, I usually never chose an animal companion as it would be difficult to adventure with. At least the way the rest of my party plays. I would need to keep him hjome or have a dedicated cleric just for my animal companion.

check out the option in the Players Handbook 2 for Rangers then if u dont like animal companions they offer a really nice ability.
Xorial
09-02-06, 11:13 PM Why not replace the spells with ToB maneuvers. Though you would actually have to figure out the maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, stances known. It might be an intersting set up.
I've actually started thinking this one thru. I was thinking he would get the Warblade's progression, but not the ability to rapidly "reset" in the middle of an encounter. I looked over the schools & thought Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, and Tiger Claw sounded about right.
JediKnight_Wcu4
09-03-06, 01:52 AM I've actually started thinking this one thru. I was thinking he would get the Warblade's progression, but not the ability to rapidly "reset" in the middle of an encounter. I looked over the schools & thought Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, and Tiger Claw sounded about right.

Maybe even use Stone Dragon or Iron Heart and have him use the recovery system of the swordsage. Otherwise that sounds cool.
DragonBringerX
09-03-06, 02:03 AM All right, for all of us who dont own Tomb of Blades../:bored:
Instead of granting both combat styles (which helps to differentiate rangers), I would add in

1) a progression of 4 Favored Environments (as found in Unearthed Arcana).
2) Increased speed +10 ft.
3) Reduction in range penalties to 1/2 normal for Spot and Listen checks.
4) Several bonus feats, choosen from feats that augment the chosen combat style and those that bonus a general woodsy lifestyle (being alert and moving through natural terrain). For example, Two-Weapon Pounce, Two-Weapon Rend, Greater ManyShot, Able Sniper, Quick Reconnoiter, Danger Sense, etc.

Of course all of these benefits would be limited to when wearing light armor (as is standard for most Ranger bonuses).
i've tried to do this several times (failed each time:allalone: ), and this seems to be the best solution, however may I throw in one piece of advice...not too many feats (2 or 3 max). And make sure the feat list is VERY limited. I would make it::teach:
Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw,Self-Sufficient, Stealthy.
If you selected martial combat style then you can get:
Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, Two-weapon Pounce
If you selected range combat style then you can get:
Far Shot, Penetrating Shot, Point Blank Shot

well...wadda think:whatsthis
Jerks
09-03-06, 11:48 AM All right, for all of us who dont own Tomb of Blades../:bored:

i've tried to do this several times (failed each time:allalone: ), and this seems to be the best solution, however may I throw in one piece of advice...not too many feats (2 or 3 max). And make sure the feat list is VERY limited. I would make it::teach:
Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw,Self-Sufficient, Stealthy.
If you selected martial combat style then you can get:
Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, Two-weapon Pounce
If you selected range combat style then you can get:
Far Shot, Penetrating Shot, Point Blank Shot

well...wadda think:whatsthis

Yep looks good to me. Now the only thing we have to figure out is the actual progression of these benefits and I think we have a viable spell-less ranger.
DragonBringerX
09-05-06, 11:05 PM Yep looks good to me. Now the only thing we have to figure out is the actual progression of these benefits and I think we have a viable spell-less ranger.
alright...i'll take a wack at it again...here i go:fight!:
Ranger Spelless
LV-Special
01-1st favored enemy, track, wild emp
02-Combat style, fast movement (+10 ft.)
03-Endurance
04-Animal companion, 1st favored environment
05-2nd favored enemy
06-Improved combat style
07-Woodland stride, bonus feat (see below)
08-Swift tracker
09-Evasion, 2nd favored environment
10-3rd favored enemy
11-Combat style mastery
12-__
13-Camouflage, Bonus feat (see below)
14-3rd favored environment
15-4th favored enemy
16-__
17-Hide in plain sight
18-Bonus feat (see below)
19-4th favored environment
20-5th favored enemy

Bonus Feat: A ranger can choose from the list of bonus feats at levels 7th, 13th, and 18th. Any ranger can choose from Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Self-Sufficient, Stealthy (or PHB 2) Cunning evasion, Keen-eared scout, Leap of the heavens, Lunging Strike, Trophy collector.
If you picked the martial combat style:
Blind-fight, Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, and Two-weapon Pounce
If you picked the archery combat style:
Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Gernadier, and Penetrating Shot
You loose all benefits when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Favored environment(ex): A ranger chooses a particular enviroment that he is very familiar with and gets skill bonuses while in that environment. You choose a terrain type from the list below. You recieve a +2 bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills in that environment. He also gets the same bonus on apporprate knowledge checks. Know (nature) any outside or Know (dungeoneering) if he selected underground.
At 9th level a ranger selects an additonal favored enviroment and his previous one to raise by 2. Everytime he receives an additional favored environment he chooses another type and raises another one by 2 more.
Evironments
Aquatic
Desert, cold
Desert, temperate or warm
Forest, cold or temperate
Forest, warm
Hills
Marsh
Mountain
Plains
Underground
Urban (new)

*sigh:crazy: well...wadda think?????
Jerks
09-06-06, 12:01 AM I like it. Nice work.
JediKnight_Wcu4
09-06-06, 06:50 PM Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments.
Jerks
09-06-06, 07:15 PM Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments.

Not a bad suggestion. In fact, Ranger level - 3 is a houserule I've been thinking of using in my game anyway. I think we all know just how crunchy those pets get at higher level. If anything perhaps the ranger and druid pets should be swapped. A ranger needs the help more-so than the druid.
DragonBringerX
09-06-06, 08:17 PM i really like this idea...its like a Paly is to Cleric (on turning)
as a Ranger is to Druid (on animals)
Gwenfloor
09-06-06, 10:32 PM I remember reading a recent article on Wild Cohorts. Basically, Wild Cohort is a feat in which you gain an animal companion, minus the Link and Multiattack abilities. It may be a good bonus feat for this variant Ranger.
JediKnight_Wcu4
09-06-06, 10:38 PM Wild cohorts are not as powerful as the animal companion. I would rather have the animal companion.
Gwenfloor
09-06-06, 10:47 PM Good point. I was thinking of the standard wild companion for the Ranger, which was level/2 for abilities, unlike the Wild Cohort, which has abilities on your total character level.
Generic Poster
09-06-06, 11:28 PM Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments.

why not just give the ranger full druid level for his animal companion then? At the very it would keep natural bond from being a required feat to keep the animal companions up to par.
Nightblade
09-08-06, 05:34 AM Well, I don't know if this is well balanced, but I'll try to convice my DM to let me get a celestial animal companion which increases like the druid's (not 1/2 level) and get Knowledge (plains) and speak language (abyssal, celestial,...) as class skills.
But I lose the ability to cast spells and knowledge (geo + dungeon) aren't class skills anymore.

This idea was inspired by the UnArcana variant.
babysamurai
09-08-06, 05:47 AM There is also a Rokugani variant that grants the Ranger a feat instead of gaining spells.

1st feat when you would first gain access to 1st level spells.

A second feat when you would first gain access to 2nd level spells.

…And so on.
katkov
09-08-06, 03:03 PM I have always like Szatanies Ultimate Ranger http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=690116

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkuwa 08-13-06, 07:02 PM	No spells, get both combat styles and fighter bonus feats at 5,10,15,20. Think thats balanced?
Salla 08-13-06, 09:39 PM	I'd make it 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, just to spread out his class features a bit. Your version has them fall exactly in time with his favored enemy bonus increases.
Mr.Atheist 08-14-06, 01:19 AM	I always wanted rangers without spells, it all seemed a bit gimmicky to me. Whenever I'd rp a ranger, I'd never quite know how to rp the spells he gets when he reaches the appropriate level (is it 5?). I'd like to see a "spellless ranger" too. But I think you are going too much along the line of fighter, throwing him the fighter feats. Remember the ranger's flavor, someone who hunts or knows his way around the wilderness, not someone who trains martially. When I think about it though, I have no idea what path you should take instead of spells. Guess I'm not that helpful here. Just my two cents.
ChaoticGood 08-14-06, 01:56 AM	Check out Complete Adventurer...
MerlintheTuna 08-14-06, 03:12 AM	Check out Complete Adventurer... Could've sworn it was Complete Warrior.
Wargamer 08-14-06, 04:24 AM	Complete Warrior it is.
Pegasos989 08-15-06, 01:26 PM	No spells, get both combat styles and fighter bonus feats at 5,10,15,20. Think thats balanced? So, fighter get 11 feats, 1 better HD Ranger get 10 combat feats, several non-combat feats, animal companion, many times better skills, hide in plain sight, favored enemy, woodland stride, evasion, etc. etc. etc. No, I don't think it is balanced. I would recommend CWar version.
R99 08-15-06, 02:00 PM	The CW version is, to put it as aloud on the boards, only slightly better than the dnd film.
Wargamer 08-15-06, 05:01 PM	Gah! Mention not the existance of... of... of several thousand D&D-inspired images put through a projector at high speeds! Every time you mention that abomination, someone makes a Katana thread!
Voran 08-30-06, 04:48 AM	Hmm, honestly, the progression of Ranger spells don't seem high enough for me to think doubling up on combat style feats would be an even trade. That being said, I'm still not quite sure the CWar version for spellless ranger was quite enough for the trade off either.
Jackmojo 08-30-06, 03:19 PM	The other problem with the Complete Warrior version is if one was dropping spells for style reasons gaining wonky spell inspired abilities hardly acheives the goal. Perhaps 2 combat styles and only 2 bonus feats, might end up too fighter-ish. How about extra skillpoints and a few (3 or 4)bonus feats? That way they can focus more on some of the non-combat utility we like to get out of rangers. Jack
Jerks 08-30-06, 11:57 PM	Instead of granting both combat styles (which helps to differentiate rangers), I would add in 1) a progression of 4 Favored Environments (as found in Unearthed Arcana). 2) Increased speed +10 ft. 3) Reduction in range penalties to 1/2 normal for Spot and Listen checks. 4) Several bonus feats, choosen from feats that augment the chosen combat style and those that bonus a general woodsy lifestyle (being alert and moving through natural terrain). For example, Two-Weapon Pounce, Two-Weapon Rend, Greater ManyShot, Able Sniper, Quick Reconnoiter, Danger Sense, etc. Of course all of these benefits would be limited to when wearing light armor (as is standard for most Ranger bonuses).
Eldwyn 09-02-06, 07:34 PM	I like this idea. I almost always play ranger, and no matter which style I chose I never realy used the spells. That was what the cleric or druid were for. Heck, I usually never chose an animal companion as it would be difficult to adventure with. At least the way the rest of my party plays. I would need to keep him hjome or have a dedicated cleric just for my animal companion.
JediKnight_Wcu4 09-02-06, 10:18 PM	Why not replace the spells with ToB maneuvers. Though you would actually have to figure out the maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, stances known. It might be an intersting set up.
NightRanger 09-02-06, 10:27 PM	I like this idea. I almost always play ranger, and no matter which style I chose I never realy used the spells. That was what the cleric or druid were for. Heck, I usually never chose an animal companion as it would be difficult to adventure with. At least the way the rest of my party plays. I would need to keep him hjome or have a dedicated cleric just for my animal companion. check out the option in the Players Handbook 2 for Rangers then if u dont like animal companions they offer a really nice ability.
Xorial 09-02-06, 11:13 PM	Why not replace the spells with ToB maneuvers. Though you would actually have to figure out the maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, stances known. It might be an intersting set up. I've actually started thinking this one thru. I was thinking he would get the Warblade's progression, but not the ability to rapidly "reset" in the middle of an encounter. I looked over the schools & thought Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, and Tiger Claw sounded about right.
JediKnight_Wcu4 09-03-06, 01:52 AM	I've actually started thinking this one thru. I was thinking he would get the Warblade's progression, but not the ability to rapidly "reset" in the middle of an encounter. I looked over the schools & thought Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, and Tiger Claw sounded about right. Maybe even use Stone Dragon or Iron Heart and have him use the recovery system of the swordsage. Otherwise that sounds cool.
DragonBringerX 09-03-06, 02:03 AM	All right, for all of us who dont own Tomb of Blades../:bored: Instead of granting both combat styles (which helps to differentiate rangers), I would add in 1) a progression of 4 Favored Environments (as found in Unearthed Arcana). 2) Increased speed +10 ft. 3) Reduction in range penalties to 1/2 normal for Spot and Listen checks. 4) Several bonus feats, choosen from feats that augment the chosen combat style and those that bonus a general woodsy lifestyle (being alert and moving through natural terrain). For example, Two-Weapon Pounce, Two-Weapon Rend, Greater ManyShot, Able Sniper, Quick Reconnoiter, Danger Sense, etc. Of course all of these benefits would be limited to when wearing light armor (as is standard for most Ranger bonuses). i've tried to do this several times (failed each time:allalone: ), and this seems to be the best solution, however may I throw in one piece of advice...not too many feats (2 or 3 max). And make sure the feat list is VERY limited. I would make it::teach: Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw,Self-Sufficient, Stealthy. If you selected martial combat style then you can get: Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, Two-weapon Pounce If you selected range combat style then you can get: Far Shot, Penetrating Shot, Point Blank Shot well...wadda think:whatsthis
Jerks 09-03-06, 11:48 AM	All right, for all of us who dont own Tomb of Blades../:bored: i've tried to do this several times (failed each time:allalone: ), and this seems to be the best solution, however may I throw in one piece of advice...not too many feats (2 or 3 max). And make sure the feat list is VERY limited. I would make it::teach: Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw,Self-Sufficient, Stealthy. If you selected martial combat style then you can get: Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, Two-weapon Pounce If you selected range combat style then you can get: Far Shot, Penetrating Shot, Point Blank Shot well...wadda think:whatsthis Yep looks good to me. Now the only thing we have to figure out is the actual progression of these benefits and I think we have a viable spell-less ranger.
DragonBringerX 09-05-06, 11:05 PM	Yep looks good to me. Now the only thing we have to figure out is the actual progression of these benefits and I think we have a viable spell-less ranger. alright...i'll take a wack at it again...here i go:fight!: Ranger Spelless LV-Special 01-1st favored enemy, track, wild emp 02-Combat style, fast movement (+10 ft.) 03-Endurance 04-Animal companion, 1st favored environment 05-2nd favored enemy 06-Improved combat style 07-Woodland stride, bonus feat (see below) 08-Swift tracker 09-Evasion, 2nd favored environment 10-3rd favored enemy 11-Combat style mastery 12-__ 13-Camouflage, Bonus feat (see below) 14-3rd favored environment 15-4th favored enemy 16-__ 17-Hide in plain sight 18-Bonus feat (see below) 19-4th favored environment 20-5th favored enemy Bonus Feat: A ranger can choose from the list of bonus feats at levels 7th, 13th, and 18th. Any ranger can choose from Acrobatic, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Self-Sufficient, Stealthy (or PHB 2) Cunning evasion, Keen-eared scout, Leap of the heavens, Lunging Strike, Trophy collector. If you picked the martial combat style: Blind-fight, Two-weapon defense, Two-weapon Rend, and Two-weapon Pounce If you picked the archery combat style: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Gernadier, and Penetrating Shot You loose all benefits when wearing medium or heavy armor. Favored environment(ex): A ranger chooses a particular enviroment that he is very familiar with and gets skill bonuses while in that environment. You choose a terrain type from the list below. You recieve a +2 bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills in that environment. He also gets the same bonus on apporprate knowledge checks. Know (nature) any outside or Know (dungeoneering) if he selected underground. At 9th level a ranger selects an additonal favored enviroment and his previous one to raise by 2. Everytime he receives an additional favored environment he chooses another type and raises another one by 2 more. Evironments Aquatic Desert, cold Desert, temperate or warm Forest, cold or temperate Forest, warm Hills Marsh Mountain Plains Underground Urban (new) *sigh:crazy: well...wadda think?????
Jerks 09-06-06, 12:01 AM	I like it. Nice work.
JediKnight_Wcu4 09-06-06, 06:50 PM	Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments.
Jerks 09-06-06, 07:15 PM	Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments. Not a bad suggestion. In fact, Ranger level - 3 is a houserule I've been thinking of using in my game anyway. I think we all know just how crunchy those pets get at higher level. If anything perhaps the ranger and druid pets should be swapped. A ranger needs the help more-so than the druid.
DragonBringerX 09-06-06, 08:17 PM	i really like this idea...its like a Paly is to Cleric (on turning) as a Ranger is to Druid (on animals)
Gwenfloor 09-06-06, 10:32 PM	I remember reading a recent article on Wild Cohorts. Basically, Wild Cohort is a feat in which you gain an animal companion, minus the Link and Multiattack abilities. It may be a good bonus feat for this variant Ranger.
JediKnight_Wcu4 09-06-06, 10:38 PM	Wild cohorts are not as powerful as the animal companion. I would rather have the animal companion.
Gwenfloor 09-06-06, 10:47 PM	Good point. I was thinking of the standard wild companion for the Ranger, which was level/2 for abilities, unlike the Wild Cohort, which has abilities on your total character level.
Generic Poster 09-06-06, 11:28 PM	Maybe for those who like to get animal companions, and since this ranger is has no spells, you could chage the rangers effective druid level as druid level - 2, or 3, instead of the 1/2 druid level. You can then further restrict the animal companion to one that is of the ranger's favored environments. why not just give the ranger full druid level for his animal companion then? At the very it would keep natural bond from being a required feat to keep the animal companions up to par.
Nightblade 09-08-06, 05:34 AM	Well, I don't know if this is well balanced, but I'll try to convice my DM to let me get a celestial animal companion which increases like the druid's (not 1/2 level) and get Knowledge (plains) and speak language (abyssal, celestial,...) as class skills. But I lose the ability to cast spells and knowledge (geo + dungeon) aren't class skills anymore. This idea was inspired by the UnArcana variant.
babysamurai 09-08-06, 05:47 AM	There is also a Rokugani variant that grants the Ranger a feat instead of gaining spells. 1st feat when you would first gain access to 1st level spells. A second feat when you would first gain access to 2nd level spells. …And so on.
katkov 09-08-06, 03:03 PM	I have always like Szatanies Ultimate Ranger http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=690116