Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spellhunter 05-06-04, 01:33 PM	So here is my question. Why do psions have so many more power points than a wizard with the spellpoint option. IT seems rather unfair to me and kinda unbalanced.....any thoughts....
Azhran 05-06-04, 01:45 PM	Because the psion needs a lot of pp to augment his powers
Spellhunter 05-06-04, 02:26 PM	but using spell points you have to augment for higher damage
Azhran 05-06-04, 03:13 PM	Not with spells like fireball that do damage based on caster level, the psion has to pay extra points in order to do more damage than 1D6
Darok 05-06-04, 03:34 PM	yes, even with those spells. Under Spell Points in UA, a full Magic Missile costs 9 SP I believe.
caeruleus 05-06-04, 03:52 PM	Does anyone know whether the spellpoint system in UA was created with XPH in mind?
Azhran 05-06-04, 03:54 PM	Never noticed that part, so I really don't know why they get a lot less spell points.
Darok 05-06-04, 03:57 PM	Originally posted by caeruleus Does anyone know whether the spellpoint system in UA was created with XPH in mind? it appears to be, or at least an early form of the XPH system
Spellhunter 05-06-04, 07:53 PM	So then going along with that does anyone think that it might be a nice feature to give more spell points and possibly the heightened and augmented abilities I think that if you use the spell point system and psionics that you kinda get messed over as a wiz or sorc...anyone else?
Ph0eNiX 05-06-04, 11:45 PM	Well, while there are a few psionic powers that scale at a one point per additional die of damage, a goodly number of them do not. Or so it should seem just doing a cursory glance...
Azhran 05-07-04, 04:35 AM	And there are a lot of non-damage dealing powers that don't scale.
Lina_Inverse 05-07-04, 05:08 AM	because wizards get full SP for high scores,while the poor psion does not? because wizards dont use damege spells anyways and stick with SAVE or dies?which dont scale with level. because a spell point wizard is insanely broken? i think thats enough reasons.
Spellhunter 05-07-04, 10:55 AM	lina, i am not quite sure what your point is... are you saying that spell points wizards are overpowered or underpowered... In my experiance, when i played a spell point wizard, i felt that the spell point system was encouraging players to cast a hundred level 1 spells as opposed to ten big ones. I mean, we wanted to approach a mannor and there were 4 of us in a party, so first thing i did was cast invisibility on everyone. and then again later because i felt that would be good group support. on the other hand of that though, when we entered a battle i cast a scorching ray that cost 12 points i think, more points than my cone of cold mind you, and the same as one of the sets of invisibility. Now this example is not to say, ohh boo hoo i ran out of spell points, if i were trying to make that point i wouldnt have cast 8 invisibilities. It just seems odd that a second level spell cost more than my 6th level spell. Yes they were both damage but that is what the wiz is supposed to do. The fact that mass damage spells fall under the wizard/sorcerer spell lists would make me think that they would then get more spell points so they can keep up with themselves. So again i wonder why they recieved less spell points they psions....
Lina_Inverse 05-07-04, 11:02 AM	Originally posted by Spellhunter lina, i am not quite sure what your point is... are you saying that spell points wizards are overpowered or underpowered... In my experiance, when i played a spell point wizard, i felt that the spell point system was encouraging players to cast a hundred level 1 spells as opposed to ten big ones. I mean, we wanted to approach a mannor and there were 4 of us in a party, so first thing i did was cast invisibility on everyone. and then again later because i felt that would be good group support. on the other hand of that though, when we entered a battle i cast a scorching ray that cost 12 points i think, more points than my cone of cold mind you, and the same as one of the sets of invisibility. Now this example is not to say, ohh boo hoo i ran out of spell points, if i were trying to make that point i wouldnt have cast 8 invisibilities. It just seems odd that a second level spell cost more than my 6th level spell. Yes they were both damage but that is what the wiz is supposed to do. The fact that mass damage spells fall under the wizard/sorcerer spell lists would make me think that they would then get more spell points so they can keep up with themselves. So again i wonder why they recieved less spell points they psions.... again,they in effect have more.does not FULL bonus spellpoints mean anything to you?psions only get manifesting score/2 in bonus psp per level. i have never seen a well played wizard use fireball,EVER.a wizard uses his arcane toolkit spells,and save or dies.note that with heighten you only EVER need to prep ONE save or die that isnt named wail of the banshee. a Spell points wizard is disgustingly powerfull,its STRICTLY BETTER than a spell point sorcerer.
Azhran 05-07-04, 11:05 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse again,they in effect have more.does not FULL bonus spellpoints mean anything to you?psions only get manifesting score/2 in bonus psp per level. The lvl 20 wizard with a 30 in int gets 10 more bonus points than the lvl 20 Psion with a 30 in int.
Azhran 05-07-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by Spellhunter So again i wonder why they recieved less spell points they psions.... The psion gets a lot less powers known, and none of the psion's powers scale. So they need to augment a lot more powers than the wizard.
Spellhunter 05-07-04, 11:13 AM	Ok lina, now you sound like your trying to bait me, can you please phrase your questions so that it doesnt sound like your talking to a five year old child..... first thing Regarless of how you have seen a wizard played, they are not restricted to just save or die spells. As a matter of fact i dont usually use save or die spells because i dont like them. I like my wizards to be able to help the party in combat and to deal out damage. So that alone does not make them unbalanced with spell points. second you say that wizards are better than spell point sorcerers. Now here is where i agree with you but for different reasons..HOWEVER....i was discussing the difference between spell points and power points....that would be WIZARDS vs PSIONS. now as to the psion getting half points for ability scores...here is where you let on that your a min/maxxer. I use dice rolls and i feel that a person can play a character in dnd without their highest ability score being in the high 20's. Therefore i was specifically looking at the amount of points given to each class... That being said i am still interested in peoples opinions as to why this is, rather what mechanics went behind this....
Spellhunter 05-07-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by Azhran The psion gets a lot less powers known, and none of the psion's powers scale. So they need to augment a lot more powers than the wizard. Yes but the wizards damage spells dont scale either. Also i think that augmentable powers are huge. I love the feature for what it is, but as well they make low level spells usefull again..to top it off the psion doesnt get as many powers know, but he doesnt need to. If a sorcerer picks burning hands he has that spell as is for the rest of his life. it will always be a first level 5d4 low dc spell. where as while some of the low level psion powers, they stay very useful for a very long time. I mean, they can in effect become their higher level damage spells when they have enough points to burn. With the psion there are less "waisted" power picks....
Lina_Inverse 05-07-04, 11:21 AM	Originally posted by Azhran The lvl 20 wizard with a 30 in int gets 10 more bonus points than the lvl 20 Psion with a 30 in int. want me to check? base-18 levels-23 wishes-28 Enchanement-34 first off your 4 points of int off.anyways. now,psion.6*20=120 now,wizard.161.closer than i thought. well dont forget the wizard can change his spells known every day,a psion has no such luxery. ieee you posted while i was typeing.ok then anyways. by definition i will assume ANY charecter is used in the most effective maner.the most effective for a wizard is simply to say save or die.with a mazimized save DC of course.if you wish to handicap a charecter this is not my fault and the game designers should build for the most effective charecters. now did you just call me a min/maxer?well yes i am,i like effective charecters who can help my party.i like combat,but you know what.im as much a roleplayer as i am a rollplayer. as for the real reason,the psp amounts on psions were built for scaleing,the psp amounts on wizards are not.check lvl2 for proof of this.
Azhran 05-07-04, 11:44 AM	Originally posted by Spellhunter Yes but the wizards damage spells dont scale either. Also i think that augmentable powers are huge. I love the feature for what it is, but as well they make low level spells usefull again..to top it off the psion doesnt get as many powers know, but he doesnt need to. If a sorcerer picks burning hands he has that spell as is for the rest of his life. it will always be a first level 5d4 low dc spell. where as while some of the low level psion powers, they stay very useful for a very long time. I mean, they can in effect become their higher level damage spells when they have enough points to burn. With the psion there are less "waisted" power picks.... The reason why lower levels psion spells remain more useful is because they don't get higher level versions, like the Psionic Dominate. Wizards get Greater Magic Weapon and Psions have to augment metaphysical weapon(and use a feat to get it). A psion has to pay 17 power points in order to get a +4 bonus to weapons that lasts an hour per level, a wizard only needs to pay 5 points.