Spending xp for feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spending xp for feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
prax
04-17-07, 01:06 PM I am running a campain and i want to instill a system whear my players can spend xp in order of have npcs teach them feats

i need feedback on if this will work and if so just how much xp is a feat worth
Arcade
04-17-07, 03:44 PM Try this link. One of the posters in the thread has this concept spelt out.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=820995
FriendlyBiscuit
04-21-07, 03:48 AM http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12062258&postcount=19 :D
More specific link for the lazy ones!

IMPORTANT NOTE: I use the Unearthed Arcana variant experience point progression where every enemy, no matter how tall or how small, yields a flat amount of experience points. To make especially weeny monsters matter less, and especially powerful opponents matter more, that XP system increases the amount of XP needed to level in an exponential way. Read the system and explanation yourself 2 or 3 times if you haven't seen it before to get an idea for how it works and why it works.
For people using normal DMG experience tables, you might want to make my feat-costs grow at somewhat of a less tremendous rate. I've long since forgotten the way I arrived upon the numbers that I did, so you'll have to come up with your own formula.
Castegyre
04-23-07, 12:11 PM I think my current DM read that post. We are using a similar system based on standard XP tables in a gestalt game where the xp costs are:

300
900
1800
2400
3100
3900
4800
5800
6900
8100

and we can only buy one feat every other level.
FriendlyBiscuit
04-24-07, 08:44 AM The problem is if they wait, and a really good player can be patient, then they can get an epic feat for only 300xp

Now thats a bargain.Hmm, good point.

I don't think the solution is forcing people to take it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12082779&postcount=20), nor is the solution limiting when you can take it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12188837&postcount=4). Just set points past which you can no longer buy em on the cheap. "Buy it now or forever hold your peace!"
Y'know. "When a character has reached level X, they can no longer buy a feat for 300 if they have not done so already. If they wish to buy a feat, they must pay 900 and so on." Or some such rot. Maybe I only solve it that way cuz I work retail, though... <.< ... >.>
Ertai Planeswalker
04-28-07, 06:45 PM I think the best way to approach it is to find the gp value of a feat in regards to item creation. I use this:

A 'bad' feat is worth about 5000Gp and good one 10.000Gp. For every prerequisite feat that the feat you want has, add half that feat's gold piece value to the item's price. For example, let's say you want to have gauntlets that allow you to cleave as though you had the feat. Cleave is a good feat, so that costs 10.000 Gp. Cleave has power attack, another good feat, as a prerequisite. Because of this, half the price of power attack, 5000 Gp, is added to the original price, for a total price of 15.000 Gp for a cleave item.

So let's say someone wants to use xp to 'buy' power attack. It's a good feat worth 10.000gp which is equivalent to 2000Xp.(Since 1Xp = 5Gp) So it costs 2000Xp to buy Power Attack.

Now let's say someone wants cleave. Since Power Attack is a prerequisite, he must have Power Attack already. Then Cleave would cost 15.000Gp, equivalent to 3000Xp.

While this system can lead to a player hogging many 'cheap feats' that's not really a problem imo. The best feats have many prerequisites, meaning they are very expensive to buy through Xp. However, this system can help get people into prestige classes at lower levels than they normally could. Also, don't forget that while burning 2000Xp on power attack seems 'cheap', using some gp that same 2000Xp could be used on crafting a 50.000Gp item.
FriendlyBiscuit
05-01-07, 06:49 AM That would be a good solution if such things were objective, Ertai.

I can link you the thread if you'd like, though I warn it contains a lot of math... but essentially, it has been mathematically proven that it is never good to select Power Attack unless you absolutely cannot miss. Since there will be times that your character can miss, unless you min/max or powergame to high hell... better to choose another feat.
You might still disagree with me even after seeing the math. And in your campaigns, you'd charge high, and I'd charge low in my campaigns. And some of our players would disagree with us, and feel it was unfair. My bad grammar in previous sentences notwithstanding, I'm pretty certain that subjective value-based costs are not the way to go.
Gerry
05-16-07, 02:14 PM I used "Limited Wish" to grant extra Feats. A High Level Mage had the spell, and they had earned his good graces by rescuing him and his daughter from orcs.

He gave them the choice to each get:
- one limited Wish
- up to three limited wishes, if they paid the XP cost of 500 XP per spell.
Ie he had researched a magical XP transference for XP costs to the recipients of the spell . About a month later, Wizards suggested that the same be made possible, if you desired. I later realized Limited Wish cost 300 XP, so obviously the transference isn't perfect, and in itself requires extra. (Or he was stealing XP!)

Anyway I let Limited Wish grant a Feat. Too lenient?

Gerry
Ertai Planeswalker
05-18-07, 09:05 AM That would be a good solution if such things were objective, Ertai.

I can link you the thread if you'd like, though I warn it contains a lot of math... but essentially, it has been mathematically proven that it is never good to select Power Attack unless you absolutely cannot miss. Since there will be times that your character can miss, unless you min/max or powergame to high hell... better to choose another feat.
You might still disagree with me even after seeing the math. And in your campaigns, you'd charge high, and I'd charge low in my campaigns. And some of our players would disagree with us, and feel it was unfair. My bad grammar in previous sentences notwithstanding, I'm pretty certain that subjective value-based costs are not the way to go.
Oh well, in our group it is quite commonly used though i never spend an afternoon doing the math on it... I played a character recently that had that exotic axe that allows it to be a reach weapon if you power attack with it for 3 or more. That character was quite effective, though 18 strength might have something to with that as well :cool:

Bascially my approach when i DM is to just let have players have what they want as long as balance is maintained.

PS: Power attack is good when attacking a group of weaker opponents, since you'll spend less actions killing them. I would not power attack vs an on-par opponent.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
prax 04-17-07, 01:06 PM	I am running a campain and i want to instill a system whear my players can spend xp in order of have npcs teach them feats i need feedback on if this will work and if so just how much xp is a feat worth
Arcade 04-17-07, 03:44 PM	Try this link. One of the posters in the thread has this concept spelt out. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=820995
FriendlyBiscuit 04-21-07, 03:48 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12062258&postcount=19 :D More specific link for the lazy ones! IMPORTANT NOTE: I use the Unearthed Arcana variant experience point progression where every enemy, no matter how tall or how small, yields a flat amount of experience points. To make especially weeny monsters matter less, and especially powerful opponents matter more, that XP system increases the amount of XP needed to level in an exponential way. Read the system and explanation yourself 2 or 3 times if you haven't seen it before to get an idea for how it works and why it works. For people using normal DMG experience tables, you might want to make my feat-costs grow at somewhat of a less tremendous rate. I've long since forgotten the way I arrived upon the numbers that I did, so you'll have to come up with your own formula.
Castegyre 04-23-07, 12:11 PM	I think my current DM read that post. We are using a similar system based on standard XP tables in a gestalt game where the xp costs are: 300 900 1800 2400 3100 3900 4800 5800 6900 8100 and we can only buy one feat every other level.
FriendlyBiscuit 04-24-07, 08:44 AM	The problem is if they wait, and a really good player can be patient, then they can get an epic feat for only 300xp Now thats a bargain.Hmm, good point. I don't think the solution is forcing people to take it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12082779&postcount=20), nor is the solution limiting when you can take it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12188837&postcount=4). Just set points past which you can no longer buy em on the cheap. "Buy it now or forever hold your peace!" Y'know. "When a character has reached level X, they can no longer buy a feat for 300 if they have not done so already. If they wish to buy a feat, they must pay 900 and so on." Or some such rot. Maybe I only solve it that way cuz I work retail, though... <.< ... >.>
Ertai Planeswalker 04-28-07, 06:45 PM	I think the best way to approach it is to find the gp value of a feat in regards to item creation. I use this: A 'bad' feat is worth about 5000Gp and good one 10.000Gp. For every prerequisite feat that the feat you want has, add half that feat's gold piece value to the item's price. For example, let's say you want to have gauntlets that allow you to cleave as though you had the feat. Cleave is a good feat, so that costs 10.000 Gp. Cleave has power attack, another good feat, as a prerequisite. Because of this, half the price of power attack, 5000 Gp, is added to the original price, for a total price of 15.000 Gp for a cleave item. So let's say someone wants to use xp to 'buy' power attack. It's a good feat worth 10.000gp which is equivalent to 2000Xp.(Since 1Xp = 5Gp) So it costs 2000Xp to buy Power Attack. Now let's say someone wants cleave. Since Power Attack is a prerequisite, he must have Power Attack already. Then Cleave would cost 15.000Gp, equivalent to 3000Xp. While this system can lead to a player hogging many 'cheap feats' that's not really a problem imo. The best feats have many prerequisites, meaning they are very expensive to buy through Xp. However, this system can help get people into prestige classes at lower levels than they normally could. Also, don't forget that while burning 2000Xp on power attack seems 'cheap', using some gp that same 2000Xp could be used on crafting a 50.000Gp item.
FriendlyBiscuit 05-01-07, 06:49 AM	That would be a good solution if such things were objective, Ertai. I can link you the thread if you'd like, though I warn it contains a lot of math... but essentially, it has been mathematically proven that it is never good to select Power Attack unless you absolutely cannot miss. Since there will be times that your character can miss, unless you min/max or powergame to high hell... better to choose another feat. You might still disagree with me even after seeing the math. And in your campaigns, you'd charge high, and I'd charge low in my campaigns. And some of our players would disagree with us, and feel it was unfair. My bad grammar in previous sentences notwithstanding, I'm pretty certain that subjective value-based costs are not the way to go.
Gerry 05-16-07, 02:14 PM	I used "Limited Wish" to grant extra Feats. A High Level Mage had the spell, and they had earned his good graces by rescuing him and his daughter from orcs. He gave them the choice to each get: - one limited Wish - up to three limited wishes, if they paid the XP cost of 500 XP per spell. Ie he had researched a magical XP transference for XP costs to the recipients of the spell . About a month later, Wizards suggested that the same be made possible, if you desired. I later realized Limited Wish cost 300 XP, so obviously the transference isn't perfect, and in itself requires extra. (Or he was stealing XP!) Anyway I let Limited Wish grant a Feat. Too lenient? Gerry
Ertai Planeswalker 05-18-07, 09:05 AM	That would be a good solution if such things were objective, Ertai. I can link you the thread if you'd like, though I warn it contains a lot of math... but essentially, it has been mathematically proven that it is never good to select Power Attack unless you absolutely cannot miss. Since there will be times that your character can miss, unless you min/max or powergame to high hell... better to choose another feat. You might still disagree with me even after seeing the math. And in your campaigns, you'd charge high, and I'd charge low in my campaigns. And some of our players would disagree with us, and feel it was unfair. My bad grammar in previous sentences notwithstanding, I'm pretty certain that subjective value-based costs are not the way to go. Oh well, in our group it is quite commonly used though i never spend an afternoon doing the math on it... I played a character recently that had that exotic axe that allows it to be a reach weapon if you power attack with it for 3 or more. That character was quite effective, though 18 strength might have something to with that as well :cool: Bascially my approach when i DM is to just let have players have what they want as long as balance is maintained. PS: Power attack is good when attacking a group of weaker opponents, since you'll spend less actions killing them. I would not power attack vs an on-par opponent.