Stances. [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Stances. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ashanti
10-20-06, 08:40 AM I was reading in the 'Why Fighters don't suck' thread and someone mentioned stances.

This got me thinking about a certain character in Tekken 3 whos' name eludes me for the moment.

He had access to different combos depending on what stance he was in.

This led me to think of an alteration to the fighter class where by the fighter has access to multiple lists of feats that can be accessed only when in the appropriate stance. He would change stance as a full round action.

The fighter would have 'stances' that each had a seperate list of feats.

Only 'fighter bonus' feats would be duplicated in this way. So, a 4th level fighter would have (for example) 2 stances (2 lists) with 4 (bonus) different feats.

This would greatly increase the fighters adaptability in the field without raising his power ceiling.

There's bags of feats out there that the fighter could never use, even with her 'generous' allotment of feats.

As to how many stances a fighter could have and when he would get additonal stances I'm not sure.

Any obvious criticism to this?
starfire311
10-20-06, 08:58 AM interesting, obvious criticsism is the logic behind it, makes it feel even more like a video game. Just not sure if it is entirely believeable that a fighter would forget how feats work based on his stance(dont find it entirly unbelievable either though)
Ashanti
10-20-06, 09:42 AM Starfire311 says

"Just not sure if it is entirely believeable that a fighter would forget how feats work based on his stance"

I would agree, but a fighter with his sword and board stance in round one could access his sword and board stance feats.

If he wanted to use his archery stance feats it would take a full round action to do all the neccesary adjustments of his 'stance' to allow him access to his archery stance feats.

The fighter could changes stances as many times as needed but each change would be a full round action (simliar to becoming psionically focussed).

I agree this full round action is an artifical device, but this keeps each feat tree seperate.

The fighter would not 'forget' how her feats work. She would have been trained to use certain feats with only certain other feats. I see this as her combat ability being formed by her natural inclination (she learned to use a collection of feats with each other from her master, sergeant, father what ever).

I think this will allow for a fighter to use his collection of feats in one stance as the template for any one who trained under the same swordmaster. This give the fighters style some role play identity.

This could easily translate in the game as the fighter recognises a villian with the same stance as her. As a role playing device I really like it.

I suppose I can't really argue iwith you if you think it would make the game more like a video game.

Any ideas on how many stances a fighter should have and when are they aquired?
strenoth
10-20-06, 10:01 AM sounds to me liek you want to go read the Book of Nine Swords.

Consider the 3 presented classes as fighter alternatives, complete with manuevers and stances :)
starfire311
10-20-06, 10:29 AM I think a fighter should get the full compliment of stances at 1st level that way they can start building the feat chains. maybe you can do it something like this

FIGHTER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: The Fighter
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Stances, Bonus Stance feat
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus stance feat
5th +5 +4 +1 +1
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus stance feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus stance feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus stance feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus stance feat

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the fighter.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

Stances: A fighter begins play with 3 stances.
Each stance has a list of stance feats that can only be accessed while in that stance. A fighter can change stances as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Bonus Stance Feats: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat for each stance, this feat is applied only when in the stance.For example a 1st level fighter may choose Weapon focus for 1 stance, dodge for another stance and power attack for his last stance. These feats are only usable when in the stance that it was assigned to. He gains an additional stance feat for each stance at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 6th level and every four fighter levels thereafter (10th, 14th, and 18th,). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.
starfire311
10-20-06, 10:30 AM sounds to me liek you want to go read the Book of Nine Swords.

Consider the 3 presented classes as fighter alternatives, complete with manuevers and stances :)

well yeah, that is obvious, that is one of the 1st things I thought of, I assumed he was trying to go for a different feel.
Ashanti
10-20-06, 12:11 PM @ starfire311

Really liked the progression. I think I may give it a go. I did think how ever that ALL of the fighter bonus feats would go into stance trees with no specific 'stance feat' level dependent feats.

The character who did the stances was Hwoarang from Tekken 3. I'v never read the book '9 Swords' however. My group only use the SRD and the Net book of Feats (but we are old fogies).
starfire311
10-20-06, 02:02 PM @ starfire311

Really liked the progression. I think I may give it a go. I did think how ever that ALL of the fighter bonus feats would go into stance trees with no specific 'stance feat' level dependent feats.

I ahd a feeling this is what you wanted, but I kinda liked the idea of having some feats that were always on and then some feats that were stance specific.

I'v never read the book '9 Swords' however. My group only use the SRD and the Net book of Feats (but we are old fogies).

this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game.
Ashanti
10-20-06, 08:17 PM this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game.

Hmm, we play a high powered warrior based campaign; I should take a look methinks,. Thanks for the tip mate.
starfire311
10-21-06, 12:57 AM this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game.

Hmm, we play a high powered warrior based campaign; I should take a look methinks,. Thanks for the tip mate.

I endorse the book... it is IMO the 3rd best non-core book published behind XPH and PHB2.

One other thing, have an open mind and be prepared to change the way you look at melee characters... they become nearly on par with high level casters... well not completly on par, but this closes the gap immensly.
strenoth
10-21-06, 01:53 AM see, I had a feelign he hadn't read the book. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashanti 10-20-06, 08:40 AM	I was reading in the 'Why Fighters don't suck' thread and someone mentioned stances. This got me thinking about a certain character in Tekken 3 whos' name eludes me for the moment. He had access to different combos depending on what stance he was in. This led me to think of an alteration to the fighter class where by the fighter has access to multiple lists of feats that can be accessed only when in the appropriate stance. He would change stance as a full round action. The fighter would have 'stances' that each had a seperate list of feats. Only 'fighter bonus' feats would be duplicated in this way. So, a 4th level fighter would have (for example) 2 stances (2 lists) with 4 (bonus) different feats. This would greatly increase the fighters adaptability in the field without raising his power ceiling. There's bags of feats out there that the fighter could never use, even with her 'generous' allotment of feats. As to how many stances a fighter could have and when he would get additonal stances I'm not sure. Any obvious criticism to this?
starfire311 10-20-06, 08:58 AM	interesting, obvious criticsism is the logic behind it, makes it feel even more like a video game. Just not sure if it is entirely believeable that a fighter would forget how feats work based on his stance(dont find it entirly unbelievable either though)
Ashanti 10-20-06, 09:42 AM	Starfire311 says "Just not sure if it is entirely believeable that a fighter would forget how feats work based on his stance" I would agree, but a fighter with his sword and board stance in round one could access his sword and board stance feats. If he wanted to use his archery stance feats it would take a full round action to do all the neccesary adjustments of his 'stance' to allow him access to his archery stance feats. The fighter could changes stances as many times as needed but each change would be a full round action (simliar to becoming psionically focussed). I agree this full round action is an artifical device, but this keeps each feat tree seperate. The fighter would not 'forget' how her feats work. She would have been trained to use certain feats with only certain other feats. I see this as her combat ability being formed by her natural inclination (she learned to use a collection of feats with each other from her master, sergeant, father what ever). I think this will allow for a fighter to use his collection of feats in one stance as the template for any one who trained under the same swordmaster. This give the fighters style some role play identity. This could easily translate in the game as the fighter recognises a villian with the same stance as her. As a role playing device I really like it. I suppose I can't really argue iwith you if you think it would make the game more like a video game. Any ideas on how many stances a fighter should have and when are they aquired?
strenoth 10-20-06, 10:01 AM	sounds to me liek you want to go read the Book of Nine Swords. Consider the 3 presented classes as fighter alternatives, complete with manuevers and stances :)
starfire311 10-20-06, 10:29 AM	I think a fighter should get the full compliment of stances at 1st level that way they can start building the feat chains. maybe you can do it something like this FIGHTER Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Table: The Fighter Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Stances, Bonus Stance feat 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus stance feat 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus stance feat 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus stance feat 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus stance feat 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus stance feat Class Features All of the following are class features of the fighter. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields). Stances: A fighter begins play with 3 stances. Each stance has a list of stance feats that can only be accessed while in that stance. A fighter can change stances as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Bonus Stance Feats: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat for each stance, this feat is applied only when in the stance.For example a 1st level fighter may choose Weapon focus for 1 stance, dodge for another stance and power attack for his last stance. These feats are only usable when in the stance that it was assigned to. He gains an additional stance feat for each stance at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 6th level and every four fighter levels thereafter (10th, 14th, and 18th,). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.
starfire311 10-20-06, 10:30 AM	sounds to me liek you want to go read the Book of Nine Swords. Consider the 3 presented classes as fighter alternatives, complete with manuevers and stances :) well yeah, that is obvious, that is one of the 1st things I thought of, I assumed he was trying to go for a different feel.
Ashanti 10-20-06, 12:11 PM	@ starfire311 Really liked the progression. I think I may give it a go. I did think how ever that ALL of the fighter bonus feats would go into stance trees with no specific 'stance feat' level dependent feats. The character who did the stances was Hwoarang from Tekken 3. I'v never read the book '9 Swords' however. My group only use the SRD and the Net book of Feats (but we are old fogies).
starfire311 10-20-06, 02:02 PM	@ starfire311 Really liked the progression. I think I may give it a go. I did think how ever that ALL of the fighter bonus feats would go into stance trees with no specific 'stance feat' level dependent feats. I ahd a feeling this is what you wanted, but I kinda liked the idea of having some feats that were always on and then some feats that were stance specific. I'v never read the book '9 Swords' however. My group only use the SRD and the Net book of Feats (but we are old fogies). this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game.
Ashanti 10-20-06, 08:17 PM	this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game. Hmm, we play a high powered warrior based campaign; I should take a look methinks,. Thanks for the tip mate.
starfire311 10-21-06, 12:57 AM	this is IMO one of the best books WotC has published, IMO it obseletes the paladin, fighter and monk, for a standard or high powered game. Hmm, we play a high powered warrior based campaign; I should take a look methinks,. Thanks for the tip mate. I endorse the book... it is IMO the 3rd best non-core book published behind XPH and PHB2. One other thing, have an open mind and be prepared to change the way you look at melee characters... they become nearly on par with high level casters... well not completly on par, but this closes the gap immensly.
strenoth 10-21-06, 01:53 AM	see, I had a feelign he hadn't read the book. :)