Success With Spell Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Success With Spell Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Greyson
08-22-05, 12:33 AM Hello, all.

Please, let me preface this thread by saying I would certainly have used search to avoid a redundant topic. But, I don't think the search function will ever work on these boards again.

So, we are going to experiment with Spell Points as detailed in Unearthed Arcana in our Age of Worms campaign. I am excited about the prospect, as I think Spell Points (or reserve or pools) can really make magic spontaneous, more useful and adaptable in D&D.

Has anyone had success with Spell Points in his or her campaign. Has anyone not liked it? Anyone willing to share what worked and whit did not regarding this alternative magic system?
Serin Ghar
08-22-05, 01:59 PM When I worked Spell Points into a short run campaign I had run I quickly realized that to make the spells actually work to even some degree of success that they would have with the standard system I had to up the number of points the casters had. UA really made all the magic users pay a high price for the ability to use spell points and that price was the spells not being as effective as they should have been.

Once I upped the points it worked much better and wasn't overpowered at all.
Merryadocc
08-22-05, 02:29 PM Spell points are an excellent system. I can never go back to the old way.

UA really made all the magic users pay a high price for the ability to use spell points and that price was the spells not being as effective as they should have been.
I must of missed a rule ... unless you mean that if you converted the spells per day in the players to spell points you got more spell points than the amount given to you in UA.

I would how ever like to see official rules regarding spending additional points on spells when you are casting. Similar to the the rules in expanded psionics handbook regarding spending extra points on manifests.

All in all the spell point system really adds versatility and makes DnD a more enjoyable experience for me and my gaming group. :)
Serielle
08-22-05, 02:30 PM Yeah, the UA variant gives you less points than you would get in a straight spell level= spell points/point cost conversion, and you end up being able to cast less.

I didn't run it exactly the way UA had it. When I ran with spellpoints, I merged the wizard and sorceror classes into one class, and called it mage. You had a spellbook where you kept all the spells you know, and you ised the wizard spells per day (and bonus spells from INT) to select a number of spells you know per day. These are the spells that you can cast spontaniously.

If you wanted to cast something that wasn't in your spell known list, you can take out your spellbook and cast it off the spellbook. The difference being that it takes you a minute to cast a spell this way. This was done so that if you wanted to cast a spell you didn't have in combat, you could still do it but af a hefty cost.

I used the spellpoint progession from UA as normal.

What ended up happening was that it completly changes the game out of combat, as you have the versatility to cast whatever you want when the situation arises. This is how I wanted it, but I didn't quite realize how much this actually screwed with game balance. Knock specifically made it so that I might as well have taken doors out of the campagin. Comprehend and speak languages made it so that the starting languages list was useless. Light made it so there was never any issues with darknes, etc. Utility spells just got overpowered, significantly.

The party I ran it with were composed entierly of spellcasters, so party balance wasn't an issue, but they would have defintely overshadowed a non spellcaster outside of combat situations.

Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't stick with the "all damage spells cast at lowest possible caster level unless you spend more spellpoints" thing, because I thought it was pretty silly. I'd say combat wise none of my players ended up being that much more powerful, if anything they ran out of spellpoints a little quickly.
Cymraegmorgan
08-23-05, 05:55 AM In my CS(see link in my sig) I have combined Spell and Action and Power points into a Resource Point System.

It has worked amazingly well. Points add flexibility, but it did require some fiddling with metamagics and some other minutiae.
Yabanjin
08-23-05, 01:12 PM We use the spell point system presented in UA.

Additionally, I allow all casters to sacrifice a Consitution point to gain extra spell points.

1 Con point can be burned for points equal to the bonus they get for their attribute modifier as they progress in levels (I don't have my book so I can't give the page number - if you care - respond and I'll explain further).

The usual attribute recovery rules apply.

Why this works for us:

In this campaign, Massive Damage = (current) Constitution + level (or HD). If they take that much damage in a single strike, they must make a Fort save or go unconscious. Hit points go beyond Constitution threshold but the main idea is that the body can only take so much....

While 1 point is healed over the course of an evening's rest. It eventually taxes the heck out of players that misuse it.

What this has led to is spellcasters in this party being over taxed all of time and actually looking tired and sickly (as wizards tend to be in fiction).

Yes, they've cast extra spells. But so have NPCs - and they've paid the price.

Overall, everyone seems to be quite happy with it. I'd say, give spell points a go. See what happens, and if no one likes it, simply change back to the RAW or try something new (Incarnum or whatever).....

Good Luck. Have Fun.
(this type of message seems to be lost on many posts and replies).
NineInchNall
08-25-05, 09:57 PM The UA system is fine with two changes:

Set the Sorcerer's spell points equal to 1.5 times the Wizard's at each level
Do not require extra expenditure for damaging spells. It makes damaging spells even less tactically viable than normal.

I have really enjoyed every game I've played with spell points; they give the spellcaster much more control over his abilities, and they help with the suspension of disbelief issues that arise when a character has cast all his 9th level spells for the day, leaving 32 slots open that can't be used to cast even one more ninth level spell. Dumb.
Vaalingrade Ashland
08-25-05, 11:22 PM My only complaint is that at low levels, half casters like bards get rocked unless they have thier primary stat at 18.
Paul Hopebringer
08-26-05, 07:18 AM Well, the varient prestige "half-casters" take care of that problem. That is how *I* fix that problem...
danzig138
08-26-05, 10:03 AM I've been using the UA spell points system for a while now, and it works fine for us. I haven't really noticed to many differences between this and the spell slot system, except the players are happier with spell points, for whatever reason.
Ares
08-26-05, 02:45 PM you guys should check out (if you can find it) Vance vs. the world thread on Redgar's Rep. He took the mpnts and converted them from the actual spell progression of the classes, rather than just taking stats from psionic classes. Pretty nifty guys.
Vaalingrade Ashland
08-26-05, 04:53 PM Well, the varient prestige "half-casters" take care of that problem. That is how *I* fix that problem...
If I can't start with Bardic Knowledge and music, I'm not going to bother.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Greyson 08-22-05, 12:33 AM	Hello, all. Please, let me preface this thread by saying I would certainly have used search to avoid a redundant topic. But, I don't think the search function will ever work on these boards again. So, we are going to experiment with Spell Points as detailed in Unearthed Arcana in our Age of Worms campaign. I am excited about the prospect, as I think Spell Points (or reserve or pools) can really make magic spontaneous, more useful and adaptable in D&D. Has anyone had success with Spell Points in his or her campaign. Has anyone not liked it? Anyone willing to share what worked and whit did not regarding this alternative magic system?
Serin Ghar 08-22-05, 01:59 PM	When I worked Spell Points into a short run campaign I had run I quickly realized that to make the spells actually work to even some degree of success that they would have with the standard system I had to up the number of points the casters had. UA really made all the magic users pay a high price for the ability to use spell points and that price was the spells not being as effective as they should have been. Once I upped the points it worked much better and wasn't overpowered at all.
Merryadocc 08-22-05, 02:29 PM	Spell points are an excellent system. I can never go back to the old way. UA really made all the magic users pay a high price for the ability to use spell points and that price was the spells not being as effective as they should have been. I must of missed a rule ... unless you mean that if you converted the spells per day in the players to spell points you got more spell points than the amount given to you in UA. I would how ever like to see official rules regarding spending additional points on spells when you are casting. Similar to the the rules in expanded psionics handbook regarding spending extra points on manifests. All in all the spell point system really adds versatility and makes DnD a more enjoyable experience for me and my gaming group. :)
Serielle 08-22-05, 02:30 PM	Yeah, the UA variant gives you less points than you would get in a straight spell level= spell points/point cost conversion, and you end up being able to cast less. I didn't run it exactly the way UA had it. When I ran with spellpoints, I merged the wizard and sorceror classes into one class, and called it mage. You had a spellbook where you kept all the spells you know, and you ised the wizard spells per day (and bonus spells from INT) to select a number of spells you know per day. These are the spells that you can cast spontaniously. If you wanted to cast something that wasn't in your spell known list, you can take out your spellbook and cast it off the spellbook. The difference being that it takes you a minute to cast a spell this way. This was done so that if you wanted to cast a spell you didn't have in combat, you could still do it but af a hefty cost. I used the spellpoint progession from UA as normal. What ended up happening was that it completly changes the game out of combat, as you have the versatility to cast whatever you want when the situation arises. This is how I wanted it, but I didn't quite realize how much this actually screwed with game balance. Knock specifically made it so that I might as well have taken doors out of the campagin. Comprehend and speak languages made it so that the starting languages list was useless. Light made it so there was never any issues with darknes, etc. Utility spells just got overpowered, significantly. The party I ran it with were composed entierly of spellcasters, so party balance wasn't an issue, but they would have defintely overshadowed a non spellcaster outside of combat situations. Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't stick with the "all damage spells cast at lowest possible caster level unless you spend more spellpoints" thing, because I thought it was pretty silly. I'd say combat wise none of my players ended up being that much more powerful, if anything they ran out of spellpoints a little quickly.
Cymraegmorgan 08-23-05, 05:55 AM	In my CS(see link in my sig) I have combined Spell and Action and Power points into a Resource Point System. It has worked amazingly well. Points add flexibility, but it did require some fiddling with metamagics and some other minutiae.
Yabanjin 08-23-05, 01:12 PM	We use the spell point system presented in UA. Additionally, I allow all casters to sacrifice a Consitution point to gain extra spell points. 1 Con point can be burned for points equal to the bonus they get for their attribute modifier as they progress in levels (I don't have my book so I can't give the page number - if you care - respond and I'll explain further). The usual attribute recovery rules apply. Why this works for us: In this campaign, Massive Damage = (current) Constitution + level (or HD). If they take that much damage in a single strike, they must make a Fort save or go unconscious. Hit points go beyond Constitution threshold but the main idea is that the body can only take so much.... While 1 point is healed over the course of an evening's rest. It eventually taxes the heck out of players that misuse it. What this has led to is spellcasters in this party being over taxed all of time and actually looking tired and sickly (as wizards tend to be in fiction). Yes, they've cast extra spells. But so have NPCs - and they've paid the price. Overall, everyone seems to be quite happy with it. I'd say, give spell points a go. See what happens, and if no one likes it, simply change back to the RAW or try something new (Incarnum or whatever)..... Good Luck. Have Fun. (this type of message seems to be lost on many posts and replies).
NineInchNall 08-25-05, 09:57 PM	The UA system is fine with two changes: Set the Sorcerer's spell points equal to 1.5 times the Wizard's at each level Do not require extra expenditure for damaging spells. It makes damaging spells even less tactically viable than normal. I have really enjoyed every game I've played with spell points; they give the spellcaster much more control over his abilities, and they help with the suspension of disbelief issues that arise when a character has cast all his 9th level spells for the day, leaving 32 slots open that can't be used to cast even one more ninth level spell. Dumb.
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-25-05, 11:22 PM	My only complaint is that at low levels, half casters like bards get rocked unless they have thier primary stat at 18.
Paul Hopebringer 08-26-05, 07:18 AM	Well, the varient prestige "half-casters" take care of that problem. That is how I fix that problem...
danzig138 08-26-05, 10:03 AM	I've been using the UA spell points system for a while now, and it works fine for us. I haven't really noticed to many differences between this and the spell slot system, except the players are happier with spell points, for whatever reason.
Ares 08-26-05, 02:45 PM	you guys should check out (if you can find it) Vance vs. the world thread on Redgar's Rep. He took the mpnts and converted them from the actual spell progression of the classes, rather than just taking stats from psionic classes. Pretty nifty guys.
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-26-05, 04:53 PM	Well, the varient prestige "half-casters" take care of that problem. That is how I fix that problem... If I can't start with Bardic Knowledge and music, I'm not going to bother.