The 20 second rule for combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

The 20 second rule for combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andron
10-01-06, 02:56 PM Okay, I mentioned this homebrew rule in another posting of mine and thought that I would reiterate it here.

Combat has been taking way too long in our group as of late. One encounter could suck up 1 or more hours. (We can only meet 1 every other week for about 4 hours; there are 8 players and I, being the DM.) In order to speed up play, I instituted a ruling that allowed for about 20 seconds after your name had been called for your turn in the initiative order. If during that time, you did or said nothing, you lost your turn. (I assume that the character is "stage struck", you froze for some reason.) When your name is called for your turn in initiative, the next person up is also told that he is on deck. Which means that if that person is being told that he was on deck hadn't been trying to figure out what he was going to do, he better start now. With 8 players, there is plenty of time to figure out what you want to do between turns, look up information, etc. I do not want, or need the players looking up information when their turn comes up. (Which is what seems to happen a lot.) All this information should be at hand before their turn starts.

This is not a hard and fast rule. I do allow for rethinking strategy when the group agrees. Or if something bizarre happened that would change the on deck characters planned out strategy, I'll allow some extra time. This rule also applies to me.

Some people in the other thread think that this won't speed things up, which is fine, but for our group it has. Others think that 20 seconds is too long and I should cut it down or even go as low as 6 seconds (representing the amount if time in play IRL).

Just curious as to what others may think.
O_Menda
10-01-06, 03:58 PM 6 seconds is not enough:

-Wizard: I move about 10 feet away from the goblin and try to cast burning hands pointing to the goblin in the front...
-GM: Turn over, next player please.

20 seconds may be enough if all the players agree. I usually only warn people that takes too much time thinking the actions so they go faster next turn.
Rhialto
10-01-06, 06:14 PM I'd say 6 seconds of thinking time. If you are continuously talking, that7s fine. But any pauses before or during your talk count against those 6. The clock pauses only while you talk.
The Livewire
10-01-06, 07:12 PM I've been looking at something like this for my group. nothing kills the mood faster than

"<Insert Caster Here> It's your turn what do you want to do?"

"Um, I want to, well hold on, let me look this spell up. no, wait, I want to, ooohhh but this looks good."

Meanwhile the Goblins die from old age.
CryoSilver
10-01-06, 08:04 PM Sometimes when I DM, I institute a "10 second rule."

You have 10 seconds to begin describing your action and you can't pause for more than 10 seconds while in the process of doing so, but you have as much time as you need to finish describing your actions.
Andron
10-01-06, 08:23 PM Sorry, that's what I meant. The players have 20 seconds to start their turn.
O_Menda
10-01-06, 08:48 PM Seems ok then. Casters will have a somewhat harder game with this but in the heat of a battle you should be fast deciding your actions and this rule may represent that, after all errors may happen both in real battles and in D&D for this reason.

Another little question: How do you keep track of the time? Sand clock, digital watch or by just simply counting with the hands? I'm just curious.
Godzilla
10-01-06, 10:38 PM That's a good idea for games with more than just two people. I'm usually playing by myself, or with my little brother, so I have to concentrate on one player before I can think about the other three. However, I still like the idea you have for the groups with more than just two people. I can certainly see how it'd be a lot better than no time limit, letting people take 5 minutes to cast one measly spell when it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.
lostone
10-02-06, 07:41 AM Fortunately I haven't had to use a rule like this, but I have thought about it a time or two. When it becomes a problem I stop the game and give a short speech which basically is along the lines of: You should know what your character is capable of, if it isn't on your character sheet you don't have it. A spellcaster should not need to look up a spell for damage, you should know what it is or have it written down. More complicated spells you should have the book open to it when your turn comes around. If I feel you're taking too long figuring out what you're doing on your turn, you lose it.

So far I haven't had to make any player lose a turn more than once (they kick themselves so much the first time that they make sure they don't do it again). I'll still make allowances if the book they need is being used by another player.
Andron
10-02-06, 10:11 AM Another little question: How do you keep track of the time? Sand clock, digital watch or by just simply counting with the hands? I'm just curious.

I have a timer on the laptop I use. Once the player's name gets called out, I press the start button to begin the countdown.

Even with giving them approximately 20 seconds to begin their turn, I try to keep their turn going quick. If they need to look something up, I'll give them a few moments, but they really should have been preparing long before. I have a couple of players that will actually "push" the other players into action if they think they are taking too long. (They really like this rule.)

I am trying to simulate the fast thinking/ reacting to whatever just happened chaos that is combat along with just trying to speed up a part of the game that seems to just bog down everything.

I may actually drop the 20 seconds to start their turn down to 10 seconds, or even 6. Once they start they will get more time, but I am actually still trying to figure out what a reasonable amount of time for that should be.
The_Levitator
10-02-06, 12:50 PM We use real time rounds too. At the start of combat, the players have 30 seconds to decide on basic strategy, and once combat starts, each player has 6 seconds to declare their action. They don't have to say it all in 6 seconds, they just have to start in that 6 seconds. Our sorcerer in the party doesn't have a problem at all with this system but we start every campaign at 1st level. The only time he ever had a problem was on a solo campaign where I started him at 6th level. He didn't know the character inside and out and he found it hard to run that quickly.

When you add the 6 second rule to diceless gaming (we use the autoroll option in DM Genie) combat really flies. Yesterday my group (4 person party) took on 33 zombies and the whole combat lasted 29 rounds (the zombies were scattered in small groups all over the village, so much of the combat was movement). 37 creature in combat and it took less than an hour. It was a blast! :D
CryoSilver
10-02-06, 10:09 PM I count time in my head; 10 seconds tends to be relative to the tempo of music I listen to at the moment.

More than likely, it's closer to 7 seconds, since I often listen to super-fast death metal.
Andron
10-04-06, 04:20 PM Okay, so I talked with one of my players and he likes the idea of giving a person 10 seconds to respond after your name is called for your turn in the round. He also thinks that what another person mentioned in another topic where this came up valid, which I'll paraphrase. Instead of losing your turn, your turn is delayed. If by the end of that round of combat you still have not done anything, then you lose your turn. This sounds fair to me. Hopefully this will solve any issues.
Ryusage
10-04-06, 04:27 PM i use the 10 second rule and it works like a charm! Any time the player isnt explaining what his character is doing, im timing them. If this time adds up to 10 seconds, their turn is up.
Andron
10-04-06, 05:05 PM I'm going to give them more than the 10 seconds mentioned as long as they start their turn before the 10 second timer runs out. If the timer runs out, their action is now delayed. I'll give a player a reasonable amount of time to accomplish what they are trying to do. I just don't want them pouring through books and whatnot after their turn starts. (Or worse not even thinking about what they wanted to do until after I called their name.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andron 10-01-06, 02:56 PM	Okay, I mentioned this homebrew rule in another posting of mine and thought that I would reiterate it here. Combat has been taking way too long in our group as of late. One encounter could suck up 1 or more hours. (We can only meet 1 every other week for about 4 hours; there are 8 players and I, being the DM.) In order to speed up play, I instituted a ruling that allowed for about 20 seconds after your name had been called for your turn in the initiative order. If during that time, you did or said nothing, you lost your turn. (I assume that the character is "stage struck", you froze for some reason.) When your name is called for your turn in initiative, the next person up is also told that he is on deck. Which means that if that person is being told that he was on deck hadn't been trying to figure out what he was going to do, he better start now. With 8 players, there is plenty of time to figure out what you want to do between turns, look up information, etc. I do not want, or need the players looking up information when their turn comes up. (Which is what seems to happen a lot.) All this information should be at hand before their turn starts. This is not a hard and fast rule. I do allow for rethinking strategy when the group agrees. Or if something bizarre happened that would change the on deck characters planned out strategy, I'll allow some extra time. This rule also applies to me. Some people in the other thread think that this won't speed things up, which is fine, but for our group it has. Others think that 20 seconds is too long and I should cut it down or even go as low as 6 seconds (representing the amount if time in play IRL). Just curious as to what others may think.
O_Menda 10-01-06, 03:58 PM	6 seconds is not enough: -Wizard: I move about 10 feet away from the goblin and try to cast burning hands pointing to the goblin in the front... -GM: Turn over, next player please. 20 seconds may be enough if all the players agree. I usually only warn people that takes too much time thinking the actions so they go faster next turn.
Rhialto 10-01-06, 06:14 PM	I'd say 6 seconds of thinking time. If you are continuously talking, that7s fine. But any pauses before or during your talk count against those 6. The clock pauses only while you talk.
The Livewire 10-01-06, 07:12 PM	I've been looking at something like this for my group. nothing kills the mood faster than "<Insert Caster Here> It's your turn what do you want to do?" "Um, I want to, well hold on, let me look this spell up. no, wait, I want to, ooohhh but this looks good." Meanwhile the Goblins die from old age.
CryoSilver 10-01-06, 08:04 PM	Sometimes when I DM, I institute a "10 second rule." You have 10 seconds to begin describing your action and you can't pause for more than 10 seconds while in the process of doing so, but you have as much time as you need to finish describing your actions.
Andron 10-01-06, 08:23 PM	Sorry, that's what I meant. The players have 20 seconds to start their turn.
O_Menda 10-01-06, 08:48 PM	Seems ok then. Casters will have a somewhat harder game with this but in the heat of a battle you should be fast deciding your actions and this rule may represent that, after all errors may happen both in real battles and in D&D for this reason. Another little question: How do you keep track of the time? Sand clock, digital watch or by just simply counting with the hands? I'm just curious.
Godzilla 10-01-06, 10:38 PM	That's a good idea for games with more than just two people. I'm usually playing by myself, or with my little brother, so I have to concentrate on one player before I can think about the other three. However, I still like the idea you have for the groups with more than just two people. I can certainly see how it'd be a lot better than no time limit, letting people take 5 minutes to cast one measly spell when it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.
lostone 10-02-06, 07:41 AM	Fortunately I haven't had to use a rule like this, but I have thought about it a time or two. When it becomes a problem I stop the game and give a short speech which basically is along the lines of: You should know what your character is capable of, if it isn't on your character sheet you don't have it. A spellcaster should not need to look up a spell for damage, you should know what it is or have it written down. More complicated spells you should have the book open to it when your turn comes around. If I feel you're taking too long figuring out what you're doing on your turn, you lose it. So far I haven't had to make any player lose a turn more than once (they kick themselves so much the first time that they make sure they don't do it again). I'll still make allowances if the book they need is being used by another player.
Andron 10-02-06, 10:11 AM	Another little question: How do you keep track of the time? Sand clock, digital watch or by just simply counting with the hands? I'm just curious. I have a timer on the laptop I use. Once the player's name gets called out, I press the start button to begin the countdown. Even with giving them approximately 20 seconds to begin their turn, I try to keep their turn going quick. If they need to look something up, I'll give them a few moments, but they really should have been preparing long before. I have a couple of players that will actually "push" the other players into action if they think they are taking too long. (They really like this rule.) I am trying to simulate the fast thinking/ reacting to whatever just happened chaos that is combat along with just trying to speed up a part of the game that seems to just bog down everything. I may actually drop the 20 seconds to start their turn down to 10 seconds, or even 6. Once they start they will get more time, but I am actually still trying to figure out what a reasonable amount of time for that should be.
The_Levitator 10-02-06, 12:50 PM	We use real time rounds too. At the start of combat, the players have 30 seconds to decide on basic strategy, and once combat starts, each player has 6 seconds to declare their action. They don't have to say it all in 6 seconds, they just have to start in that 6 seconds. Our sorcerer in the party doesn't have a problem at all with this system but we start every campaign at 1st level. The only time he ever had a problem was on a solo campaign where I started him at 6th level. He didn't know the character inside and out and he found it hard to run that quickly. When you add the 6 second rule to diceless gaming (we use the autoroll option in DM Genie) combat really flies. Yesterday my group (4 person party) took on 33 zombies and the whole combat lasted 29 rounds (the zombies were scattered in small groups all over the village, so much of the combat was movement). 37 creature in combat and it took less than an hour. It was a blast! :D
CryoSilver 10-02-06, 10:09 PM	I count time in my head; 10 seconds tends to be relative to the tempo of music I listen to at the moment. More than likely, it's closer to 7 seconds, since I often listen to super-fast death metal.
Andron 10-04-06, 04:20 PM	Okay, so I talked with one of my players and he likes the idea of giving a person 10 seconds to respond after your name is called for your turn in the round. He also thinks that what another person mentioned in another topic where this came up valid, which I'll paraphrase. Instead of losing your turn, your turn is delayed. If by the end of that round of combat you still have not done anything, then you lose your turn. This sounds fair to me. Hopefully this will solve any issues.
Ryusage 10-04-06, 04:27 PM	i use the 10 second rule and it works like a charm! Any time the player isnt explaining what his character is doing, im timing them. If this time adds up to 10 seconds, their turn is up.
Andron 10-04-06, 05:05 PM	I'm going to give them more than the 10 seconds mentioned as long as they start their turn before the 10 second timer runs out. If the timer runs out, their action is now delayed. I'll give a player a reasonable amount of time to accomplish what they are trying to do. I just don't want them pouring through books and whatnot after their turn starts. (Or worse not even thinking about what they wanted to do until after I called their name.)