The domain sorcerer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

The domain sorcerer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Count Arioch the 28th
02-23-04, 01:09 PM I was reading the UA rules for domain wizards, and alternate specialist wizards.

I would like to use both, but they kinda both cancel each other out.

But I was thinking: A sorcerer is underpowered, right?

So, my idea was, give the arcane domains to the sorcerer, then have the alternate specialists for the wizards.

what do you guys think?

Edit: Fixed a few spelling snafus.
stone_dog
02-23-04, 01:28 PM It sounds good. I'm doing it.
Elrond's Dad
02-23-04, 09:37 PM I can't see why the Sorcerer wasn't given the option to have a domain save for the fact that, in the PHB, only the Wizard could specialize in a school of magic...
Banpai
02-23-04, 10:18 PM Well if you are in search of an easy way to improve the sorcerer take a look at the Evangelist in Dragon 311 and the spontanious casting cleric in UA. An now think aobut the masses of Prcs that grand Domains, well if thats balanced then giving the Sorcerer a Domain to add to his spells its ok. Maybe giving him a domain at 1 at 5 and every 5 levels thereafter could be reason enough to stay a little bit longer in the class.(most people give Sorcerers free eshew material for their sorcerer spells only, but about half of them loves the sorcerer with familiar and the other half says it simply does not fit to a sorcer to have one. If you take away the Familiar, give Eshew material and the domains this variant of the sorcerer seems to be balanced(but still not as good as a domain wizard ;) )
aldymnor
02-24-04, 12:02 AM Good idea.
Wil_Hyral
02-24-04, 07:25 AM I think the idea of domain sorcerer fits perfectly, Count.
Count Arioch the 28th
02-24-04, 10:32 AM Well, I think it looks cooler with an O, so I'm'a'gonna spell it with an O.

Take that, english language!http://www.angelfire.com/va/vannad/beholder_smirk.gif

Just playing around, fixing it right now.

Anyway, I don't think I'm going to be taking Banpai's advice, because it seems he's not familiar with the arcane domains in UA. They aren't as good as divine domains, they just add an extra spell per level, and no granted powers, and according to UA, you only get one, which I will be using for my sorcerors instead of my wizards.
Kaya Kenobi
02-24-04, 11:38 AM Originally posted by Banpai
Well if you are in search of an easy way to improve the sorcerer take a look at the Evangelist in Dragon 311 and the spontanious casting cleric in UA. An now think aobut the masses of Prcs that grand Domains, well if thats balanced then giving the Sorcerer a Domain to add to his spells its ok. Maybe giving him a domain at 1 at 5 and every 5 levels thereafter could be reason enough to stay a little bit longer in the class.(most people give Sorcerers free eshew material for their sorcerer spells only, but about half of them loves the sorcerer with familiar and the other half says it simply does not fit to a sorcer to have one. If you take away the Familiar, give Eshew material and the domains this variant of the sorcerer seems to be balanced(but still not as good as a domain wizard ;) )

Pretty much agree with you although the Evangelist is hardly balanced..

Now as far as domain sorcerers go, I was thinking about doing such for one of my players who plays a sorcerer and it'd be nice to have some wizardly benefits a sorcerer keeps getting denied of.

Come to think of it, what in UA actually helps out the sorcerer?
Wil_Hyral
02-24-04, 03:17 PM Spell points help them. There's that clause about prepared spells that dictates they must spend extra spell points if they want to "charge up" their fireballs to a higher level but sorcerers and bards needn't apply.
sazisme
02-24-04, 04:02 PM It's not so much that the people who prepare spells have to ramp up their dice, while the spontaneous don't. It's that when you spend the base point cost of the spell, you do damage based off the first level you could have actually cast the spell.

So for the same 5 point fireball, a wizard casts a 5d6 version while the sorcerer does 6d6. On account of the wizard being able to cast the spell at 5th level, and the sorcerer at 6th.

I'm not sure how great that is going to be, when I'm 5th level and still just throwing magic missiles and acid arrows. But yes, it is something.

On a side note, the battle sorcerer is there for sorcerers. Of course, it gives up too much arcane casting to really be fun. What if it dropped to a d6 or even back to a d4 hitdie and went back to standard sorcerer progression. But kept all the other goodies ...
Wil_Hyral
02-24-04, 04:13 PM Oops. Thanks for pointing that out. Their example using just Mialee was a little ambiguous, on page 155.
Thelon Fairblade
03-02-04, 08:43 AM What about domains for the Battle Sorcerer?
Banpai
03-02-04, 05:00 PM I have to agree that the Evangelist is not balanced against the core clereic or the sorcerer, but the Evangelist has a great downside compaired to the core cleric, no channeling IIRC (bigger drawback if you use book of exalted deeds) no acces to all spells (item crafting anyone?) no turn undead (though the Evangelist has spells to deal with them) no heavy armor, no quicken spell and to mention the trun undead again, without your evangelist can´t acces many cleric PrCs.
No comes another fact to mind, many players make heavy use of PrCs and most of them do not grand more domains to expand the Evangelists spell repertoir(sp). Finally take a look on the domains most gods grand, you would be surprised how few gods grand 6 or more domains and how many spells are two or more times in a deities domains.
To finish this, the Evangelist is more or less balanced agains a core cleric without PrCs but with its balanced IMO.
(some will certainly dissagree with me and I really don´t want to oppress anyone)
To come back to the topic(btw I am familliar with the arcane domains from ) I used the Evangelist to point out that if such an divine sorcerer is balanced it´s certainly not unbalancing to give the sorcerer some domains or allow him to specialize (one more spell known per level and more more spell per day per spell level)
But befor simply let them take them take a look at the bloodline feats in Dragon 311 they are a way to give them more spells (some better ones some a sorcerer would almost never take) but have a downside too and thats what the sorcerer needs : something to differentiate him from other sorcerers.
About the battel sorcerer a way to give him more spells would be to remove a good deal of non-combat spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer list.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Count Arioch the 28th 02-23-04, 01:09 PM	I was reading the UA rules for domain wizards, and alternate specialist wizards. I would like to use both, but they kinda both cancel each other out. But I was thinking: A sorcerer is underpowered, right? So, my idea was, give the arcane domains to the sorcerer, then have the alternate specialists for the wizards. what do you guys think? Edit: Fixed a few spelling snafus.
stone_dog 02-23-04, 01:28 PM	It sounds good. I'm doing it.
Elrond's Dad 02-23-04, 09:37 PM	I can't see why the Sorcerer wasn't given the option to have a domain save for the fact that, in the PHB, only the Wizard could specialize in a school of magic...
Banpai 02-23-04, 10:18 PM	Well if you are in search of an easy way to improve the sorcerer take a look at the Evangelist in Dragon 311 and the spontanious casting cleric in UA. An now think aobut the masses of Prcs that grand Domains, well if thats balanced then giving the Sorcerer a Domain to add to his spells its ok. Maybe giving him a domain at 1 at 5 and every 5 levels thereafter could be reason enough to stay a little bit longer in the class.(most people give Sorcerers free eshew material for their sorcerer spells only, but about half of them loves the sorcerer with familiar and the other half says it simply does not fit to a sorcer to have one. If you take away the Familiar, give Eshew material and the domains this variant of the sorcerer seems to be balanced(but still not as good as a domain wizard ;) )
aldymnor 02-24-04, 12:02 AM	Good idea.
Wil_Hyral 02-24-04, 07:25 AM	I think the idea of domain sorcerer fits perfectly, Count.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-24-04, 10:32 AM	Well, I think it looks cooler with an O, so I'm'a'gonna spell it with an O. Take that, english language!http://www.angelfire.com/va/vannad/beholder_smirk.gif Just playing around, fixing it right now. Anyway, I don't think I'm going to be taking Banpai's advice, because it seems he's not familiar with the arcane domains in UA. They aren't as good as divine domains, they just add an extra spell per level, and no granted powers, and according to UA, you only get one, which I will be using for my sorcerors instead of my wizards.
Kaya Kenobi 02-24-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Banpai Well if you are in search of an easy way to improve the sorcerer take a look at the Evangelist in Dragon 311 and the spontanious casting cleric in UA. An now think aobut the masses of Prcs that grand Domains, well if thats balanced then giving the Sorcerer a Domain to add to his spells its ok. Maybe giving him a domain at 1 at 5 and every 5 levels thereafter could be reason enough to stay a little bit longer in the class.(most people give Sorcerers free eshew material for their sorcerer spells only, but about half of them loves the sorcerer with familiar and the other half says it simply does not fit to a sorcer to have one. If you take away the Familiar, give Eshew material and the domains this variant of the sorcerer seems to be balanced(but still not as good as a domain wizard ;) ) Pretty much agree with you although the Evangelist is hardly balanced.. Now as far as domain sorcerers go, I was thinking about doing such for one of my players who plays a sorcerer and it'd be nice to have some wizardly benefits a sorcerer keeps getting denied of. Come to think of it, what in UA actually helps out the sorcerer?
Wil_Hyral 02-24-04, 03:17 PM	Spell points help them. There's that clause about prepared spells that dictates they must spend extra spell points if they want to "charge up" their fireballs to a higher level but sorcerers and bards needn't apply.
sazisme 02-24-04, 04:02 PM	It's not so much that the people who prepare spells have to ramp up their dice, while the spontaneous don't. It's that when you spend the base point cost of the spell, you do damage based off the first level you could have actually cast the spell. So for the same 5 point fireball, a wizard casts a 5d6 version while the sorcerer does 6d6. On account of the wizard being able to cast the spell at 5th level, and the sorcerer at 6th. I'm not sure how great that is going to be, when I'm 5th level and still just throwing magic missiles and acid arrows. But yes, it is something. On a side note, the battle sorcerer is there for sorcerers. Of course, it gives up too much arcane casting to really be fun. What if it dropped to a d6 or even back to a d4 hitdie and went back to standard sorcerer progression. But kept all the other goodies ...
Wil_Hyral 02-24-04, 04:13 PM	Oops. Thanks for pointing that out. Their example using just Mialee was a little ambiguous, on page 155.
Thelon Fairblade 03-02-04, 08:43 AM	What about domains for the Battle Sorcerer?
Banpai 03-02-04, 05:00 PM	I have to agree that the Evangelist is not balanced against the core clereic or the sorcerer, but the Evangelist has a great downside compaired to the core cleric, no channeling IIRC (bigger drawback if you use book of exalted deeds) no acces to all spells (item crafting anyone?) no turn undead (though the Evangelist has spells to deal with them) no heavy armor, no quicken spell and to mention the trun undead again, without your evangelist can´t acces many cleric PrCs. No comes another fact to mind, many players make heavy use of PrCs and most of them do not grand more domains to expand the Evangelists spell repertoir(sp). Finally take a look on the domains most gods grand, you would be surprised how few gods grand 6 or more domains and how many spells are two or more times in a deities domains. To finish this, the Evangelist is more or less balanced agains a core cleric without PrCs but with its balanced IMO. (some will certainly dissagree with me and I really don´t want to oppress anyone) To come back to the topic(btw I am familliar with the arcane domains from ) I used the Evangelist to point out that if such an divine sorcerer is balanced it´s certainly not unbalancing to give the sorcerer some domains or allow him to specialize (one more spell known per level and more more spell per day per spell level) But befor simply let them take them take a look at the bloodline feats in Dragon 311 they are a way to give them more spells (some better ones some a sorcerer would almost never take) but have a downside too and thats what the sorcerer needs : something to differentiate him from other sorcerers. About the battel sorcerer a way to give him more spells would be to remove a good deal of non-combat spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer list.