The Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lecen_of_Mitran
03-09-07, 04:30 PM Hi, I know there area lot of Fighter´s threads in the "Classes Boards", but I believe it would be better if I put in here, because I´ve noticed that you guys are more... reasonable (:P ).

Well, what I don´t like about those Fighter that we see on that board it is because:

1) Or it´s something that has to do with Tome of Battle.
2) Or it´s something that has a lot of abilities that only makes things more complicated.

I looked at the Fighter and I realized that these are the biggest problems about it:

1) Lack of interesting skills to use outside combat or a dungeon.
2) Lack of high level feats.
3) Lack of a reason to play it all the way ´til lvl 20.
4) Lack of strenght to be able to attack enemies that can make his will worse (Dragons and it´s frightefull presence, Ilithid and it´s charming abilites, etc...)

So, I made a few changes on the class, nothing big deal and I´m not saying this is the "Ultimate Fighter", but it´s just something that it´s easier to anyone who does not like how the class it is noew, but does not want to get a horrible headache trying to figure it out all those abilities from those variant Fighters from the Classes boards.

So, here it is:

Skills: add Diplomacy, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty ) and Spot.

Analysis: I had in mind the typical fighter: the soldier, the commander, the general, the knight, etc... not the swashbuckler or stealth kind (I think the Rogue and Ranger should keep that).

Weapon Focus: Instead of a an extra feat, the Fighter gets Weapon Focus with a weapon of his choice at first level.

Analysis: many of you will think that´s unfair, and will take much of the Fighter´s appeal, but it has a reason, just take a look at the next ability:

True Weapon Focus: At 3rd level, the weapon that the Fighter choose to have Weapon Focus will work exactly as the Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, except for the good aligment prerequisit. But instead of working per character level, it will only work with the Fighter´s levels.

So, when the character achieve level 20 as a Fighter, his weapon of choice would have a maximum value 380.000 gp.

Note: For the ones who do not know the Ancestral Relic feat: it works similar to the Kensai ability with his weapon of choice, but instead of trading XP for a more powerfull weapon, the character would trade magic items (or better, their gp value) for a more powerfull weapon. So, a Fighter that fights with a longsword, could use the battleaxe +2 that he found from a treasure and "sacrifice" it to make his longsword more powerfull (I have a horrible english, please, someone explain this better).

Analysis: This one is quite simple: The Fighter will be able to make his weapon the way he wants, and with no need to wait to the DM to give him the weapon with the special abilities that he wants or asking for the wizard of the group to make one for him.

High Will save: Nuff Said.

Analysis: No more the Fighter, that has a strong discipline on his martial studies and his military lifestyle, and that fights hand-to-hand with every single mosnter that the party face, will run alway scared like a little girl while the frail Wizards, that never had to smell a gnoll before, will stay on his toe (And please, don´t say to me that the Wizards has a strong will because he works his mind a lot. That just game mechanics. Just that.).

And that´s it.

It may look long and weird, but after you read it, you´ll notice that it´s simple and maybe, effective. As I said, this is not the Ultimate Fighter, but just a better one.

Please, tell me what you think! :D
Tenacious_McGee
03-09-07, 04:43 PM You're variant almost exactly resembles the samurai class from the OA Handbook. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but just so you know :) .
Lecen_of_Mitran
03-09-07, 04:56 PM You're variant almost exactly resembles the samurai class from the OA Handbook. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but just so you know :) .

Indeed. But instead of being "stuck" with a list of bonu feats that depends on the character´s clan, this Fighter would remain the same as before.
Conlan
03-09-07, 08:49 PM I like it.

It doesn't add too much to the Fighter to make him "so amazingly powerful he puts other classes to shame", it keeps him within his niche. I don't think it makes him outshine the Paladin as a "tank" or the Barbarian as a damage-dealer.

I don't own the BoED, so I have no idea what options are available for the weapon to say that it might be pushing the envelope for power, but the value of the weapon reaching 380k GP? That's almost double the value of a weapon with a +10 enhancement (worth 200k GP, plus mwk weapon value). Please explain this?

The only thing I'd change is the will save from Good to Average, still better than what they currently get. (Maybe shoot Ref up to Average too to balance?). I don't think a typical fighter would have the good Will progression, but that's me.

Other than that, I think it seems fair and balanced (please don't sue me, Fox News :D). I'd love to play test this, I think some of my players would reconsider fighter.
Lecen_of_Mitran
03-09-07, 10:21 PM I like it.

It doesn't add too much to the Fighter to make him "so amazingly powerful he puts other classes to shame", it keeps him within his niche. I don't think it makes him outshine the Paladin as a "tank" or the Barbarian as a damage-dealer.

I don't own the BoED, so I have no idea what options are available for the weapon to say that it might be pushing the envelope for power, but the value of the weapon reaching 380k GP? That's almost double the value of a weapon with a +10 enhancement (worth 200k GP, plus mwk weapon value). Please explain this?

The only thing I'd change is the will save from Good to Average, still better than what they currently get. (Maybe shoot Ref up to Average too to balance?). I don't think a typical fighter would have the good Will progression, but that's me.

Other than that, I think it seems fair and balanced (please don't sue me, Fox News :D). I'd love to play test this, I think some of my players would reconsider fighter.

Simple enough, the Ancestral Relic let you have one weapon that can cost per character level a maximum of half the character´s wealth. That´s why 380.000, because it´s half of 760.000, that it is what a character of lvl 20 has worth of it.

It would work something like this:

A level 6 Fighter found a +1 battleaxe and +1 cloak of resistance. Instead of selling them for half their price, as usual, he will go pray for 24h with his weapon of choice and spend both items market value and add to his weapon.

So, let´s say his weapon is a simple +1 longsword. He "sacrifice" the battleaxe and the cloak of resistance, and both cost something like 3.000 gp.

After 24 hour praying (or whatever you, as a DM, think it´s better for the Fighter), he could add 3.000 gp worth of abilities to his weapon. But a +2 cost 8.000 gp, so, he could save those magic items and make the sacrfice later, when he had enough items to raise his weapon to a +2.

I don´t know if I explained well. Unfortunatly, I can´t put in here the feat, because it would go against the code of conduct.

But to make this "ability" worth on the Fighter, you need to put it linked to the Fighter level, and NOT the character level, because if you do that, you wold see your players dipping to get one level as a fighter and such ability for free.

P.S.: And the reason to not put an "average" will save it is because 99% of the players don´t play with an average save. They only play with high or low.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lecen_of_Mitran 03-09-07, 04:30 PM	Hi, I know there area lot of Fighter´s threads in the "Classes Boards", but I believe it would be better if I put in here, because I´ve noticed that you guys are more... reasonable (:P ). Well, what I don´t like about those Fighter that we see on that board it is because: 1) Or it´s something that has to do with Tome of Battle. 2) Or it´s something that has a lot of abilities that only makes things more complicated. I looked at the Fighter and I realized that these are the biggest problems about it: 1) Lack of interesting skills to use outside combat or a dungeon. 2) Lack of high level feats. 3) Lack of a reason to play it all the way ´til lvl 20. 4) Lack of strenght to be able to attack enemies that can make his will worse (Dragons and it´s frightefull presence, Ilithid and it´s charming abilites, etc...) So, I made a few changes on the class, nothing big deal and I´m not saying this is the "Ultimate Fighter", but it´s just something that it´s easier to anyone who does not like how the class it is noew, but does not want to get a horrible headache trying to figure it out all those abilities from those variant Fighters from the Classes boards. So, here it is: Skills: add Diplomacy, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty ) and Spot. Analysis: I had in mind the typical fighter: the soldier, the commander, the general, the knight, etc... not the swashbuckler or stealth kind (I think the Rogue and Ranger should keep that). Weapon Focus: Instead of a an extra feat, the Fighter gets Weapon Focus with a weapon of his choice at first level. Analysis: many of you will think that´s unfair, and will take much of the Fighter´s appeal, but it has a reason, just take a look at the next ability: True Weapon Focus: At 3rd level, the weapon that the Fighter choose to have Weapon Focus will work exactly as the Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, except for the good aligment prerequisit. But instead of working per character level, it will only work with the Fighter´s levels. So, when the character achieve level 20 as a Fighter, his weapon of choice would have a maximum value 380.000 gp. Note: For the ones who do not know the Ancestral Relic feat: it works similar to the Kensai ability with his weapon of choice, but instead of trading XP for a more powerfull weapon, the character would trade magic items (or better, their gp value) for a more powerfull weapon. So, a Fighter that fights with a longsword, could use the battleaxe +2 that he found from a treasure and "sacrifice" it to make his longsword more powerfull (I have a horrible english, please, someone explain this better). Analysis: This one is quite simple: The Fighter will be able to make his weapon the way he wants, and with no need to wait to the DM to give him the weapon with the special abilities that he wants or asking for the wizard of the group to make one for him. High Will save: Nuff Said. Analysis: No more the Fighter, that has a strong discipline on his martial studies and his military lifestyle, and that fights hand-to-hand with every single mosnter that the party face, will run alway scared like a little girl while the frail Wizards, that never had to smell a gnoll before, will stay on his toe (And please, don´t say to me that the Wizards has a strong will because he works his mind a lot. That just game mechanics. Just that.). And that´s it. It may look long and weird, but after you read it, you´ll notice that it´s simple and maybe, effective. As I said, this is not the Ultimate Fighter, but just a better one. Please, tell me what you think! :D
Tenacious_McGee 03-09-07, 04:43 PM	You're variant almost exactly resembles the samurai class from the OA Handbook. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but just so you know :) .
Lecen_of_Mitran 03-09-07, 04:56 PM	You're variant almost exactly resembles the samurai class from the OA Handbook. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but just so you know :) . Indeed. But instead of being "stuck" with a list of bonu feats that depends on the character´s clan, this Fighter would remain the same as before.
Conlan 03-09-07, 08:49 PM	I like it. It doesn't add too much to the Fighter to make him "so amazingly powerful he puts other classes to shame", it keeps him within his niche. I don't think it makes him outshine the Paladin as a "tank" or the Barbarian as a damage-dealer. I don't own the BoED, so I have no idea what options are available for the weapon to say that it might be pushing the envelope for power, but the value of the weapon reaching 380k GP? That's almost double the value of a weapon with a +10 enhancement (worth 200k GP, plus mwk weapon value). Please explain this? The only thing I'd change is the will save from Good to Average, still better than what they currently get. (Maybe shoot Ref up to Average too to balance?). I don't think a typical fighter would have the good Will progression, but that's me. Other than that, I think it seems fair and balanced (please don't sue me, Fox News :D). I'd love to play test this, I think some of my players would reconsider fighter.
Lecen_of_Mitran 03-09-07, 10:21 PM	I like it. It doesn't add too much to the Fighter to make him "so amazingly powerful he puts other classes to shame", it keeps him within his niche. I don't think it makes him outshine the Paladin as a "tank" or the Barbarian as a damage-dealer. I don't own the BoED, so I have no idea what options are available for the weapon to say that it might be pushing the envelope for power, but the value of the weapon reaching 380k GP? That's almost double the value of a weapon with a +10 enhancement (worth 200k GP, plus mwk weapon value). Please explain this? The only thing I'd change is the will save from Good to Average, still better than what they currently get. (Maybe shoot Ref up to Average too to balance?). I don't think a typical fighter would have the good Will progression, but that's me. Other than that, I think it seems fair and balanced (please don't sue me, Fox News :D). I'd love to play test this, I think some of my players would reconsider fighter. Simple enough, the Ancestral Relic let you have one weapon that can cost per character level a maximum of half the character´s wealth. That´s why 380.000, because it´s half of 760.000, that it is what a character of lvl 20 has worth of it. It would work something like this: A level 6 Fighter found a +1 battleaxe and +1 cloak of resistance. Instead of selling them for half their price, as usual, he will go pray for 24h with his weapon of choice and spend both items market value and add to his weapon. So, let´s say his weapon is a simple +1 longsword. He "sacrifice" the battleaxe and the cloak of resistance, and both cost something like 3.000 gp. After 24 hour praying (or whatever you, as a DM, think it´s better for the Fighter), he could add 3.000 gp worth of abilities to his weapon. But a +2 cost 8.000 gp, so, he could save those magic items and make the sacrfice later, when he had enough items to raise his weapon to a +2. I don´t know if I explained well. Unfortunatly, I can´t put in here the feat, because it would go against the code of conduct. But to make this "ability" worth on the Fighter, you need to put it linked to the Fighter level, and NOT the character level, because if you do that, you wold see your players dipping to get one level as a fighter and such ability for free. P.S.: And the reason to not put an "average" will save it is because 99% of the players don´t play with an average save. They only play with high or low.